If you are considering entry level equipment 14 SEER in the south / 13 to 14 SEER in the north the equipment brand means nothing. All equipment in this range will likely come with a 10 year part warranty from manufacturer. Brands in this realm don't differ all that much. While installation is most important with every install --- it tends to be even more critical in this realm. Manufacturer's are cutting as much as they can from these entry level machines.

In order to get a better manufacturer warranty you would have to go to Amana 16 SEER single speed at a minimum. This would give you life time replacement coverage if the compressor ever failed. 10 year part on everything else.

If you live in a humid climate the better option would be Amana 2 speed communicating system. While you can pair the communicating stat with the single speed mentioned above there are no electronics in the out door single speed machine... so the communicating part is only half there (furnace).

Goodman makes the same machine as the Amana, the difference is in the warranty coverage and name on the unit / shade of paint of the unit. The 16 SEER 2 speed comes with 10 year replacement coverage as opposed to lifetime.

Any system 14 SEER and lower can use a piston, however most manufacturers evaporator coils come with TXV already installed... it would be counter productive to remove it.

16 SEER or higher require a TXV.

Micro channel is fairly new technology and in most cases effect entry level machine options thru brands made by Nordyne / Nortek or Johnson Controls. The main reason behind this is to cut cost.. far cheaper to make condenser as well as evaporator out of aluminum and then cut refrigerant charge by up to 50%. While this works well for the manufacturer, it typically doesn't work well for the consumer. (more labor to repair your system when it breaks... and break it will.)

NOTE: Just because a coil is ALL aluminum, DOES NOT mean it's micro channel coil.

Ruud Achiever 2 speed and higher have conditional 10 year replacement along with 10 year parts. So similar warranty to that of Goodman. Anything less than 2 speed equipment and warranty is only 10 year parts for Ruud. I would suspect Rheem would be similar to this... as they are more or less the same like Amana is to Goodman.

Generally agree with the above. Note that there have been all kinds of problems over the last 5-10 year with copper coils. This is due to the use of impure recycled copper. Corrosion in the coils has resulted in incredibly high failure rates and has been the cause of numerous class action lawsuits against HVAC manufacturers. Personally, I'd go for aluminum, despite its disadvantages, but it's probably a wash in the long run.

Consumer Reports has reliability information for various brands of central air conditioners. You might want to take a look at that information to help with your decision.

agree with sktn77a...

Consumer reports don't break down equipment by model number they only break it down via brand name. There can be vast differences from low end models to higher end models. There's a good reason why the upper scale units cost more.

I agree with the note of problems with copper based coils but I doubt it is merely due to the result of impure copper. I firmly believe it is due to cost cutting measures in which the manufacturer makes the copper tubing wall paper thin the higher formaldehyde concentrations in furnishings for the home in nearly everything you buy in the way of furnishings has turned this into a finger pointing match of immense proportions.

I break down old equipment every year to recycle it to the scrap yard. The copper coils made in the last 10 years are extremely fragile due to the very thin wall. This is a manufacturing cost cutting to increase profits, and increase new equipment purchases. Has nothing to do with impure copper in my opinion.

All manufacturer's do cost cutting. Because of this Consumer Reports is talking about equipment that was likely made 5-10 years ago. They are behind the curve, everything has changed again, model numbers are different, designs are different, cabinets the equipment are put into are different by the time they come out with a review (they don't test the equipment, they poll consumers). There is no safety in trying to do what others have done years earlier. This HVAC market has never worked this way.... except for maybe the 1980's and 1990's.... but that was then, this is now.

As a long time subscriber of Consumer Reports I would not give much weight to the reliability data on HVAC equipment.

agree with Mike...

As I recall the top central air conditioner brands were American Standard / Trane and Carrier. That seems to match what I've seen most HVAC contractors say on this forum and others about their preferred HVAC equipment.

Mike-where would you suggest consumers go to get unbiased reliability information about HVAC equipment if not Consumer Reports?

That's a good question. I don't think there is any reliability information available to consumers that indicates how well equipment will perform.

When a residential HVAC system fails, consumers will almost always blame the equipment. But in many cases it was due to poor installation and incorrect sizing. We have seen this many times on this forum. But the average homeowner can't tell whether the cause was equipment, installation, or a combination of both.

The other thing that happens in my opinion is that people who are experiencing problems tend to report things more often than those who do not. The data tends to get a negative bias. Maybe the negativity equalizes among all the brands. But perhaps not if brand samples are small.

So as a general rule I tell people to stay away from the low end or builder's grade equipment regardless of brand and find an installer that you have confidence will do a good installation. Even that is not a guarantee but it does improve your odds.

Mike-thanks for your response. In my opinion it's up to the HVAC manufacturers to screen the people that sell, size and install their equipment to make sure they are competent. If the manufacturers don't do that then they deserve the bad reputation they get when those incompetent people screw up the sizing or installation. That's why I don't have a problem if faulty sizing or installations cause some of the complaints that are included in the reliability data from Consumer Reports.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The only thing that comes close to what you suggest is a Carrier Factory Authorized dealer. It is my understanding a Carrier FAD has to take classes on how to install the latest Carrier equipment. But that is still guarantee they won't cut corners or install over sized equipment.

As I recall the top central air conditioner brands were American Standard / Trane and Carrier. That seems to match what I've seen most HVAC contractors say on this forum and others about their preferred HVAC equipment.

If you're in bed with the devil, you don't claim loyalty to Jesus. As such there isn't much difference when it comes to a brand of HVAC equipment.

-something divided against itself will not stand... that's about as simple as I can put it.

If I bash equipment, it would defeat the purpose of repairing it. Those that bash brands can't repair... the motivation is to sell, sell, sell. If your system is old the repair road is short. Age of equipment is typically what decides if repair is a good option or not along with what is wrong. If brand name were to decide I would never find any older equipment to repair except the purported brand names that are somehow magically better?

Just to be clear I am not bashing Trane or Carrier... I am merely taking them off the pedestal that you and others are putting them on. I repair these and other brands all summer long. Remember to tell Consumer Reports OK?

Mike-where would you suggest consumers go to get unbiased reliability information about HVAC equipment if not Consumer Reports?

Someone who actually works on HVAC equipment would be a good start. I work on and fix ALL Brands. Yes, every single brand breaks. Just yesterday it was a Trane just under 5 years old. As it turns out this model is builder grade... yeah a supposed leader of the Air Conditioning free world. Imagine that.

Today I go to an Amana house that is a bit older, then to another Trane house that the unit is only a few years old, installed by some other FAD, LOL. Imagine that... 2 young Trane units in less than a week. Maybe you should inform Consumer Reports.

The only thing that comes close to what you suggest is a Carrier Factory Authorized dealer. It is my understanding a Carrier FAD has to take classes on how to install the latest Carrier equipment.

If a company is selling 100K or more in equipment don't kid yourself. FAD is just a fancy term used to hypnotize those that think things don't evolve around money. A dealer spending 100K or more in equipment purchases can get anything they want. If they don't they merely shop around for another brand. The more they sell in equipment the worse it gets.

Sorry to burst your FAD bubble ----It's only about the money.

Typically being an FAD of any brand, isn't about service necessarily. Service contradicts selling equipment, just for the sake of selling equipment. Because if you stop selling equipment under the 'FAD' umbrella, of being a 'trained pro of xyz brand' you will lose the FAD status.

That's right... you only get FAD status for moving equipment. Hello money?

A manufacturer, any manufacturer of equipment does not exist for service... they exist because they sell their brand. You can put any fancy term you want in front of it. If a manufacturer fails to sell equipment, they cease to exist. Certain consumers get enthralled by fancy terms that mean nothing. I can't make this any more clear than I have in this post. Take your time to reread it and let it sink in.

A annual total of $100K of equipment purchases does not sound like a lot of money. That averages to less than one system install a week. Are you sure it is that low? You also may be lumping together Carrier Factory Authorized dealers with the rest of the Carrier dealers. There used to be a difference, perhaps you have new information that it has changed.

If you search hard enough you can find some of the training materials for Carrier Factory Authorized training. You can even find the tests associated with the class.

Where I live in New Jersey there is very little new housing development. If you are in the HVAC business you need to know how to troubleshoot and repair. I don't think you can survive just doing installations. The companies tend to be have been in business a long time. I am sure it is different in other parts of the country. But in the Northeast and mid-Atlantic states my perception is things operate differently.

Perception isn't the same thing as reality. In talking about FAD and training materials associated typically with higher end equipment. What is higher end equipment?

It's not single speed low end bottom rung equipment. 99% of equipment out there is guess what? single speed equipment.

So given those statistics what primarily are you going to use FAD training for? It's only good if you are selling the higher end equipment. To this day I am lucky to see a Carrier Infinity System at all even once in a summer. Carrier infinity has been around since probably 2002, 2003 time period. That is reality.

In the realm of Carrier, back in the day I worked for a 'quote un quote' FAD. This company was churning out over 1 million a month in equipment. So sure you could say 100K is low. But that company churning out 1 million a month in equipment, the number of pieces related toward the higher end Infinity stuff was very low. Over the many years of working for that company I sold only a couple of infinity systems.

FAD training was going to 'Monday Morning' mandatory meeting and sitting there with your eyes propped open while some guru from Carrier goes thru functions of an infinity thermostat. So this so called FAD training is no where near what you think it is.

It's nothing more than a hour to 90 minute meeting... and certainly not every Monday. If my memory serves me it was no more than a few of those meetings out of a year of other worthless meetings.

So out of that million plus a month in equipment, what do you suppose we sold the most of? Nothing you need FAD Training for.

The state of the real estate market (aftermarket previous owned homes) is in worse shape today. ( In terms of home owner owned homes. A landlord is not going to buy an infinity system for a rental. Guess again.)

I even lived thru (worked thru) a session where at this particular company they 'shopped' around for a better deal on equipment with other manufacturer's. So with that, how much good is being known as a FAD worth?

When you are moving million plus a month in equipment... name a manufacturer that wouldn't drool all over you. It's only about the money, on both sides. For God sakes, stop kidding yourself.

A million a month in equipment sales is not typical. Most HVAC companies sell less than 100K in equipment sales. The total a manufacture has you sign up for can be less than this goal amount, but 'real' advantages in pricing don't come until you at least hit the 100K figure.

If you're lucky enough to hit the million dollar mark (even if it's annual figure), the proverbial FAD doors will swing wide open for you... so you can shop around for an even better deal. At that point brand means even less, because now you've made it --- just about the money and what a manufacturer can do for you.

In some circles, people call it grease.

If you're moving million dollars in equipment... you don't have time for training... you learn most of it by making mistakes in the field. Yeah, there's some free FAD training for you.

wink, wink.

Austin Air Companie,

I appreciate your comments regarding my post. I have received bids from 6 contractors. This includes Trane, Carrier, Amana - Goodman, and Ruud.

I am leaning towards a Ruud Achiever 80% gas furnace and 2.5 ton 13 seer AC unit. I live in Western Pennsylvania. The summers are not extreme, usually just a few days of heat degrees at 115. My wife has allergies so the AC runs May to September. Winters vary but usually a few weeks will be in the single digits or lower with a stiff breeze. I like the simplicity of the 80% furnace. Natural gas is affordable due to the shale fracking here.

The contractor plans to use the existing line set. He claims that the copper is thicker than the new material. Do you agree? The line set runs through my double garage to the laundry room where the furnace is. Do you prefer 4" Honeywell type filters or electronic?

My house is a 3 bedroom brick rancher, about 2100 square feet. It has newer windows and is well insulated. There is abundant shade from trees.

Thanks

I am leaning towards a Ruud Achiever 80% gas furnace and 2.5 ton 13 seer AC unit. I live in Western Pennsylvania.

For that location that decision is fine so long as you are confident with your HVAC provider the relationship is good and this provider is going to service this equipment for you for the life of this equipment. The rubber gets burned with relationships that become frayed, you jump from one company to the next and motives of other companies may be less than desirable.

He claims that the copper is thicker than the new material. Do you agree?

In most cases this is fine. replacing the line set can be quite complicated and add additional unnecessary costs. Really the only time I require a line set change is if the equipment is better suited to be relocated, the size of the line set is detrimental to the operation of the equipment in question. As far as wall thickness it's hard to say for sure. Manufacturer's of all kinds are cutting materials to avoid raising prices... so it wouldn't surprise me.

Do you prefer 4" Honeywell type filters or electronic?

Electronic are a continuous maintenance chore. While the filter is a maintenance chore it's easier. The other thing is if the electronic filter stops working it's heavy cost all at once where as the filter changing the costs are lower but constant.

I have low cost 1" pleated filters at my house with multiple returns for better removal of hot humid air through out the home, but my location is much different from yours with different concerns. So this decision may require some thought as to what your desire is. Half one, dozen of another.... if you know what I mean.

The winter design temperature for the Pittsburgh area is 7F degrees. An 80% efficiency furnace would not be my first choice. I understand your concerns about more complicated equipment has a higher probability of break downs. But I am not sure buying a less efficient furnace to save on a possible future repair is a wise investment.

The line set can be used provided it is properly cleaned and it has the proper diameter for the new equipment. I don't buy the old line set has a thicker wall argument. Your installer likely has other reasons why he doesn't want to change it.

I don't believe a condensing furnace has any more probability of a break down, but in older homes there are challenges to putting in a condensing furnace.

If you get the installation wrong, this is what leads to a lot of problems.

I would like to thank everyone for their comments. Although I am not a HVAC expert, my background is in power plants. The principles of operation of a residential HVAC system are easy for me to understand. As plants were upgraded to reduce emissions, quite often a benefit in the combustion zone created problems downstream. Mechanical components can be measured for wear but electronic parts tend to just fail with no warning. So my selection of a simple systems is based on this experience.

As the plants I worked at were decommissioned, I have relocated twice since 2012. This makes it difficult to select a contractor. The one I selected had positive reviews on Google and several other sites. I was pleased that several commercial customers provided favorable reviews. The owner answered all of my questions. He stated that since the system is being installed in the summer, they will return in the fall at no charge to tune the furnace.

In the four plus years that I have lived in Western PA, I have found the winters to be moderate. January and February can be cold and snowy, but otherwise it is not uncommon to have daily highs above freezing. Sometimes it is quite pleasant with highs in the 50's. Lake effect snows don't make it this far south.

After 23 years of power plant work, I now work on the electrical distribution system which appears to be more much more stable.

Thanks again. I will post an update once the system is installed.