Thanks so much! I am going to try it

I'll be giving it a try this fall.

Thanks! We been getting so much rain this year I have to keep spraying oil on our cups...getting to be a pain...lol

THANKS again Rebecca!

Jim- I just bought the spray from Amazon. I'll let everyone knowhow it works when I get it.

Sharon

I'm happy that I was able to help!! I may need it myself... I was examining my John Cabot this afternoon and realized that there was new growth but many canes had dried tips that stopped growing. I assumed it was from the heat, but this rose has leaf damage that I thought was from cutter bees. Maybe it is rose midge. What do you think? I put out some blue traps that I had that are REALLY sticky and hope that will trap something. I have no other damage of cutter leaves or growth tips on any other roses. They are closer to my blue light Dynatrap than this one is though.

Rebecca

Thanks Rebecca. I read about tanglefoot last season. Then promptly forgot about it. Well I knew the product was out there but forgot the name. :-)

Just saw the picture Rebecca, I'm sorry to say this but that looks just like a lot of my midge damage. This creature needs to find something else to do with its life than ruin our roses.

ARGH!!!! Thanks, Patty! It's weird that this is the only rose that has that damage AND the bee cutter damage. AND I have never had either one before in all my years of rose growing!! Aparently our state also imported Japanes Beetles from Minnesota in nursery stock.

here's an interesting article on rose midge. I'm gonna try landscaping fabric under my rose that's affected.

http://www.post-gazette.com/life/garden/2013/06/29/Control-rose-midges-to-ensure-blooms/stories/201306290154

Rebecca

Rebecca- My only concern is if it heats the soil enough to kill the midge will it damage the rose roots? I put down clear plastic instead of black. I was afraid the black would heat the soil too much and make the soil dry out too quickly. Vaporvac used black plastic and believed that she had broken the cycle but hasn't posted recently. I catch small bugs on my yellow and blue pinwheels but don't know if they're midge or not. I think I caught some thrips. The other bugs are tiny with what looks like black bodies and clear wings. They are the same bugs that come in through our window screens.

Sharon

Sharon, I did think about that, too. I am hoping that by using landscaping fabric, I will block the bugs but allow air to move in and out. I have really heavy duty fabric. Thanks for the reply.

Rebecca

Rebecca- You're welcome. Do you know which brand you bought? Does it say the weight on the package?

This is all so frustrating. I read an article that said good aphids? look like bad aphids, then there are parasitic thrips? that look like the bad thrips. I'm probably catching all the good bugs and missing the bad ones!

I read about this product called Surround WP which is kaolin clay base that forms a skin on the plant so insects won't chew it. It's mainly used for food gardens. I don't know why it doesn't wash off in the rain. It's organic but kind of expensive.

Sharon

Oooooooh Sharon, I'm gonna have to check that out!!! Thanks, again!! It's tough to know what to do and how far to go, just to get our roses to be happy and bloom.

As far as the fabric... I go to Menards and buy their 25 year fabric. It really does last, especially if you put pine bark on top of it.

Rebecca

Thanks Rebecca- I just ordered a very expensive roll from Amazon- it's 5 mil thick. Hopefully the little buggers won't be able to crawl through the cloth. I'm not even sure if the bugs I'm trapping are midge. They look nothing like the pics I've seen. Just little black bugs.

That WP Surround sounds intriguing but is expensive, especially with shipping. But not as expensive as losing our roses to pests and disease! The dust makes leaves look like they have a bad case of powdery mildew though. The best place for price was https://www.groworganic.com/surround-25-lb.html. I don't know if it will work or not but farmers give it good reviews. Here's an article explaining how it works fro apple growers. http://www.groworganicapples.com/organic-orcharding-articles/surround-kaolin-clay.php/

No one states if it works to control rose midge or not although it is supposed to help with pear midge. I wonder if they're similar insects. Do we have any entomologists here :-)

Sharon

I found a link to an Ohio State rose midge article in a different post- http://studylib.net/doc/5320143/rose-midge---the-ohio-state-university that stated that regular applications of permethrin, both foliar and soil drench worked best out of all insecticides tried to control midge. Biologicals were not good at controlling the midge. The study further indicated that a barrier of plastic ground cover worked well. I dislike using pesticides, particularly permethrin which kills almost everything it touches. Nematodes appeared not to be effective but the study is from 2011 so they may have found an effective nematode since the study was conducted. I hope the landscape fabric works since it's not quite as ghastly looking as either black or clear plastic.

Sharon

Good work, Sharon!!!! I am keeping this information. I have only one rose with midge. It was an import from another state and I didn't even think of midge when I ordered it. I was more concerned about RRD. So I decided no rose was worth it, even if it cost me $60, which it did with shipping.

So... I WENT TO WAR!!! I RIPPED OUT THE ROSE AND THE SOIL AND MULCH!! I put them in a garbage bag and sealed it in a box. Then I layed down clear plastic because that was all I had and I didn't want to wait. Now I wait and see. My other roses don't have any sign and the closest rose to this one is 10 feet away. From now on, I get greenhouse grown roses only. Or David Austin Roses bare root which are grown in Arizona. But I suppose even greenhouse roses can get midge. UGH!!

Here is what I found on my trap from last night.

Rebecca

Rebecca here is a magnified photo of midge.

Boy oh boy when you go after a problem you get it done. :-))))

Here's another arcticle to prevent it from coming in your garden... bare root or rinsed the dirt off the rose before planting...

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/nurspest/rose_midge.htm

Rebecca

THANKS, PATTY FOR THE PHOTO!!!! And, yeah, I'm a get it done or go home kinda girl... :) And, I don't buy that I'm older stuff... :) I know that we are the same age and I AM NOT OLDER!!! (Can you hear me laughing???!!!) I am just slowly aging. Actually, my husband tells me I'm as old as my grandson who is 13. I'd rather be 8 though. It's so fun!!

Rebecca

Rebecca-thanks for the pics. I'm not getting any insects that look like your top pic. Is the lower pic an ant?

I'll try to get pics of what I'm catching. They are tiny, tiny black bodied bugs with clear wings.

Maybe instead of disposing of your rose you could isolate it somehow. I read to rinse all soil from roses and soak in permethrin or a permethrin soil drench. Paul Zimmerman recommends pruning all new growth and disposing of it.

I wonder if you could put the rose in a clear trash bag with the soil wrapped so the midge couldn't pupate in the soil. This would act kind of like a mini greenhouse until the rose midge are gone. Put your traps inside with the rose to catch any midge that might hatch. It's awful to have to throw a rose away.

Sharon

Actually, Sharon, I have ripped out more roses than I can count, so this is not painful for me. I didn't want to risk spreading this anywhere, so I just bagged it and tossed it in the garbage... actually grunted and tugged and pulled. All that dirt was heavy!! :) I sorta treat roses like annuals. I have promised my husband no more grafted deep dug holes. It's getting to hard on my back. BUT, I love digging and so, if a rose doesn't work, I pitch it. I do have a friend that begs for all of my discards, though, so they go to a good home.

Rebecca

Rebecca- so much work! And dedication. If you love digging you can come on up to my house!! We even have giant rocks you can muscle around. Sometimes it even turns into ledge. Woohoo!

I have just started removing my non-performers. I have a DA 'Jessica' that is probably 10 years old and still just a foot tall. She flowers okay but bs's like mad and is taking up a premier spot in my garden so she's on the chopping block. It's nice that you have a friend who shares your rose passion. Up here we can barely find a nursery which doesn't think Knockouts are the be all and end all of the rose world. I know they have their place (I actually have some in more shaded areas of my yard since they do pretty well in even 3-4 hours of sun) but it would be great to find some beauties at the local Lowe's or HD that some of the rose gardeners here find! I did see Downton Abbey's Violet's Pride and Edith's Darling and a handful of Austins but that's about it so most my rose purchases are done mail-order.

Do you rinse your roses? I tried that with Kordes 'Floral Fairytale' and she's really struggling now. I might have left her too long though.

Rose growing is definitely an ongoing learning experience.

Sharon

I'd love to muscle some rocks, Sharon!!! My body would hate me in the morning though. :) OOOOOhh, that Jessica wouldn't have made it through the second year for me. I have very stringent growing standards. If they don't do well right out of the chute, they get the talk. The next year, if they don't shape up... they get the ax!!

I do rinse my roses and yes, it takes them time to recover. If they are small own roots, I put them in a pot and grow them over winter in a covered window well or my basement under grow lights. In the house they need to be totally free from dirt or MadGallica says to let them go through a couple freezes and then bring them in. I never would trust that, though. I chased too many gnats around the house with a vaccum cleaner to try and catch them. Ok, you can quit laughing now.... :) I have 2 J P Connell that I just got from High Country Roses. Even though they are very nice plants and quite large, I still rinsed them and am going to bring them inside for the winter. After my midge experience, no rose will enter my yard without rinsing the roots. Sometimes, I give my roses a jolt of SuperThrive after rinsing. That seems to give them a boost. I forgot this time, though. Thanks for the chat.

Rebecca

Rebecca, thanks for the info and the offer to muscle some rocks ;-) It gets tiring very quickly but once you pull out a huge rock your hole is basically dug.

I have chased flying insects with a vac too. Must be a woman thing! We have had lots of houseflies this year. I found a good spray of lemon scent ammonia incapacitates them and then I just squash! This works way better than the recommended hairspray and evaporates without leaving a sticky mess behind.

The only reason 'Jessica' is still here is just laziness. She's also near the very edge of the sidewalk and never throws out long canes to scratch you as you walk by. She definitely hasn't outgrown her space, lol. I'll probably plant Kordes Cream Veranda in her spot next spring.

I wish I had room in my basement for any roses but our oldest daughter divorced and moved back home so she got an apartment in the basement. I can't winter over in pots outdoors since the voles managed to find my roses over the winter and killed all but one. These creatures are vile. And I don't even know what that rose is since she lost her tag. I think it's some kind of drift rose.

Good luck with all your garden projects and especially the rose midge battle.

Sharon

I tried the Tangle Trap glue. It is really sticky and difficult to remove from your hands. I had to wash my hands with canola oil and dish detergent. Definitely use gloves when applying!

I think my blue cups mostly caught thrips. Others report that midge is attracted to the yellow and red cups. I have the yellow fly papers and they have caught all manner of flies and wasps. Maybe midge too?

there arr some tiny things that just look like dots. I cant even tell if looks like Patty's photo.

I will say that since putting these up a few weeks ago, I see much less burnt tips and buds are developing!

Here's a picture of my blue cups catching midges.

Totoro and Samuel- I bought the tangle foot in a spray but was unable to use it since the can they sent had no nozzle. A replacement is supposed to be coming today. Hoping it has a nozzle! I'll let everyone know how it works and how easy or difficult it is to apply.

Sharon

totoro I can see midge on your on your tanglefoot. woohoo!

Patty, which photo? Are the midges closer in size to the tiny dots or the larger insects with visible wings? It seems to me that if you need a magnifying glass to see them, then they must be closer in size to those dots.

Sam, in your photo are the midges those two larger bugs on the right and left or the dots in the middle?

I'm just catching little black dots. I think cooking spray might be too thin. The tangle foot spray came last night. I'll see if this will catch some of the nasty things.

Sharon

I have tried both canola oil and this glue stuff and I am sad to observe that the bees did not stick to oil but they do stick to the glue. :(

totoro- well that stinks. We don't want to be killing the good guys! I used the spray Tanglefoot and have not caught any larger insects. Maybe the spray goes on thinner than the brush-on so it's not as tacky. It was very easy to use but probably is not dissolvable. I'm using pinwheels which were kind of pricey and would like to try to clean them for next year so I'll probably try dunking them in either motor oil or store brand cooking oil. The cooking spray seems too thin and hasn't really caught much.

Sharon

Yes those are two rose midges magnified with my camera on the blue cups. They are actually quite small. One Quarter the size of a mosquito. With the blue cups I was able to eliminate images and also I sprayed spinosad on the new growth to protect the plants and also I use beneficial nematodes in the soil.

Samuel- So in your opinion Spinosad works? I'd much prefer this over Bayer, which is just too toxic. Do you remember which nematodes you purchased? I went to the link you provided but didn't know which ones to buy.

Sharon

Sharon, how does the spray on glue work for you? Does it wash off with the rain? The brush on glue does not.

totoro that tangle foot stuff must be incredibly strong. It nailed a good sized bald faced hornet. It is incredibly difficult to see midge. I need my glasses and a good magnifying glass. Other wise they look like a light colored brown speck. The ones I'm thinking are midge are in the first photo. They have opaque see thru bodies. Ya know back in the old days they used tobacco at night to fumigate the buggers. Don't know how well that worked.

Darn I'm finding midge damage on Easter Basket again 3 bent buds and some burnt growth tips.

Patty, I don't personally know about fumigation, but I used TTea earlier in the season with excellent results. I only stopped when putting fabric and plastic under the plants to test one variable at a time. It is time-intensive as it doesn't persist. Being fairly runny, it seeps into the little crevices of the growing tips quite well. They also used tobacco stems as a mulch which has the added advantage of being high in nutrients. Living in tobacco country, I've considered finding a source since it's considered waste material, but don't know the effects on worms, etc. It's still tilled into fields to compost and battle insects. I'm just not sure how much the nicotine leaches into the soil or how deep it may go.

totoro-sorry for the late answer. The spray on glue doesn't wash off but to me it doesn't seem super tacky either. It seems that the cooking oil works as well. I'm going to try some heavier motor oil next year to see if it works better.

Sharon