Silica,

Purdue is one of my favorite universities; I almost went there instead of UC Davis. Anyway, the real issue here is Susanne didn't ASK for our advice.

John I'm a really bad follower and in this case you are right, I did not ask for advice but always willing to learn something new ;). I will watch the fruit as I mentioned earlier and if I feel it gets too heavy and before braking part of the tree, I would remove the fruit.

Until then I will let them grow.......

Well, I for one think it's a very good sign that it's putting on new leaves despite all the fruit. Typically, if all it's resources were going into fruit, it would not put on new growth. Must be a very healthy plant!

Each fruit draws all of it required energy from just the 3 closest leaves to the fruit. After the fruits needs are satisfied, the rest of the energy being produced by the remaining leaves is used for growth, or for other needs as the tree distributes.

Silica: I think you've mentioned this before. Can you provide a link to some reference material that supports that statement? I think it's much more complicated than that. If that were true then theoretically, a three-leafed plant, such as a newly-rooted cutting, could support one fruit. I would suspect the number of fruit that can be supported would also depend on the size of the plant, the extent of the root system, any kind of stress, overfertilization, lack of crop thinning the previous year, whether the variety is alternate bearing, among many other variables.

So much to learn

Dave your correct in all of the above. However, that does not change the fact that a fruit gets all of it required energy from only the three nearest leaves. The items you list are not items that offer energy to developing a fruit, but rather items that deter crop production. Your observation, that a 3 leafed plant could support one fruit, forgets that there are other energy needs required by a tree other than just producing fruit. I first heard of the 3 leaf energy/fruit was here on this forum by Dr. Manners. You can learn about this subject by reading the research of Dr. Karen K. Koch University of Florida. The best to you and your beautiful trees.

IMO this "3 leaf" thing is something that someone thought; then they said it; then someone else picked it up and said it; and suddenly a lot of people are saying it. Never in my experience have I found any evidence to support such an idea; and if it had any basis in reality I think you would see those 3 leaves suffering; but it just ain't so.

Johnmerr, you can look it up just as easy as I can. It was established by the University of Florida, and Dr. Karen K Koch did a lot of the investigative work. As always, you can believe the University's research or not. Either way it certainly does not bother me. I'm not going to get involved in a long drawn out debate. Personally, I have a mountain of faith in both Dr. Malcolm and definitely in the University. By the way Malcolm is a Graduate of UF. Have a wonderful week, and keep those Meyer lemons coming.

Well I have great respect for Malcom Manners; but as I recall he did not do any such research; and may have only been quoting someone else. As for Koch, her expertise is in corn and sugar cane. All of that aside, I live in the real world; and in 35 years of citrus in 5 continents I have NEVER seen any evidence that such a thing in true. In the case of Meyers, you may have as many as 15 fruits developing on a single stem, that has NO leaves attached to it; so are you claiming that 3 leaves supports 15 Meyer lemons?? Read all the books and research papers you care to; but a lot of those people have NO real world experience, kinda like the real world illiterates of UCR who call themselves citrus experts; when they asked Sunkist, whose members are from the real world, for help, Sunkist told them, "We are so far ahead of what you think we are doing; but you never bothered to ask us until now you need something... the answer is a GIANT NO!!"

My friend John, a citrus fruit draws all it required carbohydrates (sugars) from the three closest leaves. The three closest leaves may not necessarily be on its branch. Yes your right, Dr. Koch has done extensive work on sugar cane and corn plus MANY other fruits and vegetables such a tomatoes, citrus and etc. Now John, see what you have done ---- you are drawing me into what could be a long drawn out debate, and I don't want to go there.. John you can simply believe it or not, it truly does not bother me either way.. Your beliefs, and you experiences with Meyer lemons, does not change the facts. I'm sure the University and Dr. Koch will still continue living on just fine. The very best to you and your family. Now I have to go and pick up my wife.

After I have given it some thoughts and checking the tree again, I decided to take some of the fruits off. It was very windy yesterday and this made me realize that the fall is usually with lots of wind and even if I support the heavy branches I might risk of some breaking off. Just need to decide which one to cut off and what to leave on. Kinda sad but unavoidable I guess.

Susanne,

Good decision, the future of the tree will thank you and reward you.

Susanne, I think you are right to take off fruit. I thought of what you said about killing the baby fruits, but I think you have it reversed...your plant IS the baby ;-). You would not have a child have a baby or go to work, right...don't make your little tree work so hard when she herself is only a child ;-)

Silica...University of Florida...my college (undergrad)....I will be on campus tomorrow!!!! So excited! I am in Orlando with my family and am taking the last day to drive to Gainesville! I've not been there in 20 years, and sure it will be much changed. I may visit whatever professors are left that I know in the geology dept....

Laura had to think a bit about what you said and I agree the tree is still small but that does not say anything about its age. It could be well over 50 years old (or not maybe younger or maybe older who knows). I'm sure this part comes from a mature tree and even the root stock is probably not from a seedling This was a typical FW tree with a very strong root system and when I repotted it I used Mycorrhizal fungi to promote even more root development. My only concern to take some of the fruits off is to prevent damaging the branches through strong winds that I'm sure are still coming before moving into the house. This tree shows new growing which tells me it is very strong and could support the fruits. Still hurts to take them off and really considering leaving two or three on strategic places.

The tree you have, regardless of the age of the parent tree, is still only at most three years old since it was grafted. It was not a seedling, of course, but a grafted tree as that is what FW sells. It is your tree, of course, and you can do what you like, but it is still a very young tree. I let my trees grow to a certain size and age before allowing them to go "hog wild" producing fruit.

I did cut five of the little fruits off, not easy. So much new growth on that tree despite everybody saying a tree with fruit is not growing. I left two on and will see how it goes. I did cut one open and it is already juicy and a hint of sweetness. I think this is a great variety.

I think you did the right thing....but Susanne, please do NOT tempt me!! I do not have one of those and you are making me want one ;-). I have no restraint...

Laura this community is just dangerous. But for this year the GN will be the last tree coming next week and with that my varieties have doiubled this year. I need to see what happens over the winter. Dreaming about a xie shan satsuma, just because it ripens beginning of winter time. And if something really special comes around I probably would not be able to resist either.

Susanne, you aren't kidding when you say this community is dangerous. Two years ago I had two citrus trees - a 30+ year old calamondin and a key lime and no greenhouse. Now I have 60+ trees and a greenhouse.

Vladimir that is awesome :) I would love to have a greenhouse one day too. My collection did grow to at least 30 and 24 different varieties. Not counting the figgs that is. Another rabbit hole if I do not watch where I go. 4 varieties already. Small still but seems they grow like weed, pop a stick in the pot and it takes off.

Vlad Is this similar to your greenhyouse

6b Steve

No, Steve, it's a bit smaller.

Susanne, I did not mention my 11 figs and 3 bananas. Figs will not be overwintered in the greenhouse. I have not decided what to do with the bananas. Will probably not go into the greenhouse.

Hehe Steve. Vladimir banana?? No, will they get fruit?

They are supposed to fruit but I did a bare root repot into 511 on them when I got them which killed one and set two of them way back. The third was given to me and is about 5 feet tall with no fruit. I suspect it may be an ornamental variety and if it is I will throw it onto my compost pile.

Susanne,

Sometimes I don't even follow my own advice. I have 3 potted Cara Cara oranges; they are 2 years old and still relatively small... planned for planting in ground soon. On the strongest of the 3 I have left 2 oranges, that are now baseball size. The trees are growing like crazy and making a lot of baby oranges. I know the history... the trees that these 3 came from are 5 years old; and the trees that those came from were 8 years old; so physiologically they are old trees, but physically still small. The truth is I did not even see these 2 fruits I have left until they got the current size; add to that they are on a lower limb close to the trunk; and are not even bending the limb. So, there are horses for courses. Would the tree grow more without these two fruits? Yes, of course. Would I have left them if I saw them earlier? Probably not. Will I cut them now? NO... I will enjoy them when they ripen.

Ha, makes me feel better as I left two on the lower branches too ;)

Caras seem to grow rapidly when they are taking off and healthy. I got two this year and one of them putting out new growth at least on ten different spots. This is a two year old tree too. Second one still not doing a lot. Leafs got more yellow but still really tight. No clue what is going on with this one.

I have a cara cara that I got early last year as an almost twig from fasttrees. It has grown, but is still not huge. However, it does have one good size orange that I've left. I hope it will ripen this winter. I can't wait to try it.

Here is alittle update on my Trovita. This tree is pushing out a lot of new growth despite me leaving two fruits on ( with a bleeding heart did cut off five ) . Everymorning and sometimes every afternoon I inspect my trees. Just found at least ten little flower buds. Now wondering if this little tree would have ben able to grow the fruit that it came with?

oranges still growing nicely and wondering when they will be ready to pick? I guess at least till december maybe?

"Now wondering if this little tree would have ben able to grow the fruit that it came with?"... Susanne, the answer is it is likely, given proper feeding and some support for the limbs; but more likely it would have aborted some. For sure, if you had left all the fruit, two things would be true: one is it would not be growing so vigorously nor flowering/making new fruit; and two is the fruits would almost certainly be inferior in size and quality; because the young tree simply does not have the substance to produce that many good quality fruits.

I fully understand your feelings. Even for me it is still hard to cut fruits, flowers,leaves; but I always give first priority to the concerns of the plant; and later to fruit, flowers, etc.

When I had only a few hundred Meyers it pained me to prune even the smallest branch; because I knew each leaf node could have been a new tree. Now I prune them with mechanical saws and burn the cuttings. It is all a matter of perspective and how much time/energy you have to devote to each plant.

Believe it or not, even with my bleeding heart I could feel the tree take a deep breath, you know, like we do if we get rid of a heavy package. At the time I knew it was the right thing to do. Now wondering how many fruits do I leave on? Btw. no, this tree had absolutely no intend to abort the fruits. They were getting big and tree put out new growth at the same time.

I do everything my way, been with forums a long...long time. I do my own trials and with time i will come up with nice looking tree's that produce plenty of stuff for me and a bunch of others, just ask my neighbors and friends. Here is one of my Meyers, fruits with little leaves.

Looks like you got a lot of fruits there Bob. How old is your tree?

Good for you, Bob; but you should know that experience is a very poor teacher; it is costly, often painful; and you may never learn the lessons you really need to know. Best to learn from the experiences of others. BTW, here are my Meyers at 3 years.

Well, I disagree. My own experience is way superior because there are so many variables. I know my meyer will never be that tall in three years because of climate difference and only growing in a container. That does not mean that I don't value experience from others.

That tree came from Harris not more than 4 years old. John i only start citrus about 9 years with only one tree, a Page since than i have maybe 15 at the most not counting the ones i don't want. I have not killed one citrus yet and they are not going to, they like my place, besides i am a zone pusher is that telling you something. How about my Jabo tree, eat all the fruit last week and it is blooming again.

Well, Susanne and Bob, not to disrespect your own experience; but unless you have a few thousand trees and maybe 25 years or more of observation, your "trials" may be just good luck, or bad luck, or simply coincidence.. They may be valid for you in your micro climate, or micro soils, or all of the above; but they are hardly a basis for giving advice to others.

Bob wrote above, "I do everything my way". Sounds like a Frank Sinatra song.

Bob,

Hats off to you... I don't even know what a Jabo tree is. Can you enlighten us?

I not given advice to anybody i am just telling forum members what i do. I you have to listen to all forum members for advice, i would think you going to be in a heap of trouble, you got to use your own brain once in a while. Btw, i have over 40 years of fruit growing experience, not like yours though. I am retired now after serving the industry as a highly skilled tech guy and draw a decent pension. I am just in for the ride.

Experience is the summery of all failures (or successes)

John you should know it is a tropical fruit tree, lots of people grow them in Florida. You can grow them in your place easy, but it is not a commercial item unless you live in Brazil.

John, i always want to start a mango farm somewhere but it did not work-out, spent many years in Far East.

Thanks, Bob. I have only Carabao (Manila) mangos at my farm that I grew from seed. Guatemala is a big exporter of mangos; but mostly the Tommy Atkins mango, which I do not care for. Come to Guatemala; and I will help you start your mango farm; but with something better than Tommy Atkins. Mangos are a good small grower crop, as is the Meyer lemon... we have about 10 associate growers now and one cooperative.

BTW, I am also "retired"... I am 72 by last count.

John You are only 12 years older than me. I always say learn from other peoples mistake instead of your own. I also do things my own way because it fits my personality, resources, time constrains, palate, and USDA growing zone.

John, you don't look retired to me. You just moved to Guatemala and went to work in a different profession. Life is just starting at age 72.

Silica,

I actually moved to Guatemala 10 years ago; but the rest is true.

Steve,

I am amazed at what you do in Cincinnati. Do you know I have been in 54 countries and 46 of the 50 States, but not yet in Ohio... funny because Ohio is such an important State in so many ways; and my Mother's ancestors came from there to California. i just have never had a reason to visit Ohio; but it is a certainty in the coming year.

John, that is an offer i can refuse if i was much younger .

John You will be 105 years old and I will be 93 years old when we get together in 2050. Maybe you and I can get together when Hailey's comet comes by in 2062. We will have a good time and a good view.

Steve

Steve, I am down with that. I fully expect to live to 125. I am really planning to visit Ohio next year. Will you be there? BTW, my Irish Grandmother who died at age 100 was one a few who saw Halley's comet twice in her lifetime.

I can probably arrange to be here if I know when you are coming.