I've eyed that at the RPN web site, but know very little about it. Habit? Fragrance?

The flower reminds me of 'Paul Transon', but that's a wichy one, and HMF says "Sui Mei Ren" is China/Tea/HT.

What are your thoughts about possible ancestry?

Virginia (yes, I'm up too late, but headed off to dreamland soon)

It's taken its time to do much. There isn't much habit yet as it's only produced two canes, both of which with two to three buds per. The foliage is better than most of the Teas but not "great" yet. I have no idea about ancestry, though I had originally desired it to try it for breeding. I shall have to remember to try smelling it tomorrow as I don't honestly remember it having any scent from the first flowers. Sweet dreams!

It's sure beautiful when fully open! Lisa

Kim, I hope your plant will take off soon- if only so you can tell us more.about it. And also, of course, so you can enjoy it, and decide if it's a suitable parent...

Virginia

It reminds me somewhat of Mlle. Franziska Kruger, but is possibly even more beautiful. So far it looks like an exciting new possible introduction. When I enlarged the picture it looked really breathtaking.

Thank you, Ingrid. After having battled Freddie Kruger's terminal addiction to mildew, it's a relief to see this one much cleaner than Kruger.

So -- Just to add to the dialog . . . Kim was kind enough to share 'Sui Mei Ren' with me. Yes, it's a slow-grower, so far . . . But on the plus-side, the foliage, here, is flawless. And though there's not all that much plant yet, the foliage has remained flawless when others went really ugly. SO flawless, you could mistake the leaves for silk!

Remember -- the character of what we call a "China Rose" is quite different:

But all that aside . . . When it comes to bloom, "Sui Mei Ren" is quite remarkable:

Take a gander at the shape of the inner petals. What EVER it is, this is a fascinating rose, with a lot going for it.

I'll just leave this here...

Leaf shape is different. Maybe artistic license?

But go look at the contemporary illustrations of Gloire de Dijon, on HMF:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.304432
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.290147
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.214648
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.176109

Though, honestly, I never know how much faith to put in those illustrations.

'Sui Mei Rein' reminds me a bit of something of the 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' type -- a Bourbon-Tea. And though I don't grow it, I'm thinking "Odee Pink" may be the real 'Irene Watts'.

:-)

~Christopher

Christopher, I do grow "Odee Pink", and so far she looks nothing like the illustration above.

Artistic license maybe, but it's the only illustration I can find for 'Irène Watts'.

She is described as having creamy white buds that open to salmon or china rose, suffused with apricot. But she was sometimes described simply as being a white rose.

However 'IW' is also described as vigorous and a good grower, and it seems like this beauty is slow out of the gate... Of course, I don't know if 'IW' was vigorous on her own roots, or if that vigor was courtesy of rootstock.

Jeri, you could be right about this being a Dijon Tea. Quite a few of GdD's descendants were considered as slow or weak growers... and there were quite a few roses in that genre.

Virginia

Virginia, do you happen to have Ping Dong Yue Ji? There is quite a bit about Odee Pink's photos on HMF which reminds me strongly of Ping Dong.

Virginia, you should try growing 'Mme Laurette Messimy' and comparing it to your "Odee Pink". Make sure you get the real MLM, though, since some nurseries sell an imposter under the name. The pics of OP just remind me so much of MLM in plant habit, and the bloom looks like something that could occur from a self-seedling. If not actually IW, I think it's rather closely-related to MLM.

:-)

~Christopher

Kim, thanks for postinf. I was interested in this rose as well, but I am wondering how well it tolerates partial shade and how BS resistant it is.

To me it looks much more like a tea rose than a China rose, but then La Vesuve and Jean Bach Sisley float back and forth between those two categories depending on who you talk to or order from. I don't care, I'll enjoy them either way!

You're welcome, Totoro. It seems to take humidity OK, at least our type. Fortunately, black spot isn't a great issue here. Mildew and rust are our demons. This one isn't terribly affected by mildew (it's quite a bit cooler and damper here than where Jeri is. We have her "old" climate. Hers is warming and drying, becoming closer to the Encino climate I left) and it hasn't indicated it wants to rust...yet. I've only had it almost a year.

Kim, I do have "Ping Dong Yue Ji", either directly or indirectly from you- thanks! I'll need to look at them side by side... it's been too hot to do much outdoors lately.

Poor Not-MLM. she's such a good rose here, and it's not her fault that she's an "imposter".

I like the real MLM too, at least in photos, and might try her out sometime. She has many siblings (Mme Falcot was a popular parent rose), and quite a few offspring. I didn't know until recently that Will Tillotson introduced two Teas (raised from Old Blush & MLM, but classed as Teas) in 1964. I'd love to know what 'La Belle Suzanne' and 'La Belle Marie' look(ed) like...

Perhaps "OP" will look more creamy-white with apricot with maturity?

Virginia

Great! I'd forgotten what all had gone east. It will be interesting reading your impressions of them side by side. Thank you!

So beautiful! Looking at the first pictures, I thought it was dying...

Kim and Jeri (and Malcolm Manners),

Any newer pics of this rose? What about its plant form and habit?

Do you also grow Tipsy? I would be interested to know if it resembles her at all in foliage and habit.

If these (and other) roses are really old chinese garden hybrids I would think that any attempts to classify them according to what we are accustomed to here in the West would be futile.

No, sorry, Nik. Malcolm brought Jeri's and my plant to the HRF Conference last October and I passed the larger one to Jeri several months ago. She has more heat than we get here so hers may be growing more quickly than mine. I've also harvested cuttings from mine to send to Blue Girl in Texas to get it spread around, so mine is likely quite a bit smaller than Jeri's. My experience is it isn't a rapid grower on its own roots. But, even when it's "hot" here, nights are usually quite chilly, which can slow growth down quite a bit. I don't grow Tipsy.

For quite a while, it just sat there and didn't do much, but now I see it has put on quite a lot of growth since spring. And throughout, it has maintained perfect foliage.

I think that's significant, because we had a warmer, wetter spring than we've had for 4-5 years -- so much so that I did have quite a lot of blackspot here. But Sui . . . no rust, no mildew, no blackspot. (By contrast, Ping Dong Yue Ji was a miserable mass of mildew, and is gone.)

I wish I knew how large it's going to be, and what its eventual habit will be.

NIK Said: "If these (and other) roses are really old chinese garden hybrids I would think that any attempts to classify them according to what we are accustomed to here in the West would be futile."

Nik -- That's probably the truth. Maybe a new classification would have to be found for such things. Oh, and I also have never grown "Tipsy . . . "

Jeri, was Ping Dong there during your "old" weather or your "new", hotter, drier weather? I had more mildew issues with it in Encino where it suffered more water stress induced mildew than here where it SHOULD (but isn't) mildew because of the cold/wet. It's fairly decent sized, trapped in a half-full five gallon can without its feet in the ground and surrounded by many other potted roses and hibiscus, yet it continues flowering and has decent foliage.

It was here through the transition. It just got worse and worse. It's possible that it also hated my crappy water. (God knows, EYE do!)

I hope it is not irritating when I "like" interesting discussions like this, when I have absolutely nothing to contribute. I had never heard of this rose and it looks so interesting.

Gosh no Sheila. That's what we're all here for -- just to share information and ideas.

Personally, I'm really interested in this rose for myself. I think it may fall into the category of some other things we've added in the last year or so. Tamalpais Homestead Tea, Florence Bowers Pink Tea, Annie Laurie McDowell, New Orleans Cemetery Rose . . . Even some Hybrid Teas -- Naga Belle. Ahimsa.

Cool stuff!

'Sui Mei Ren' (Oct. 20, '17) has been opening slowly for several days, and still has some days to go . . . but it remains lovely.

'Sui Mei Ren' (morning, Oct. 21, 2017)
Another beastly dry Santa Ana heatwave is coming . . . Be interesting to see what this does.

A truly fascinating and informative thread where I, also, have nothing to contribute! Sheila, thank you for inserting your comment about "liking" discussions even when not actively participating. I do the same, either to signify agreement or to communicate that I am following and enjoying the conversation. Carol

A gorgeous rose!

Continuing the series . . . Here is the same 'Sui Mei Ren' bloom, this morning: