We should add that we are hoping to be able to have some seating towards the end of the peninsula as sort of a breakfast bar type area.

How wide is your aisle? If it's a galley type arrangement I would want 60" of space between counters.

wow 60", we have 48"

I don't know if I can find another foot. Could possibly push to closer to 53" but that's the max really

I'm not sure based on your plans but is it closed near the staircase so it's a galley kitchen and not open on both ends? If it's open on both ends, 48" is fine.

Also how deep is your peninsula?

Yes it's a galley type kitchen. The cabinets on the peninsula are 24" but we were thinking of overhanging the counter top slightly to maybe 29" or so but that eats up the possibility of widening the distance between the peninsula and the wall cabinets.

What is the distance to the stairs from the cooktop wall?

Are you completely locked into your layout? Have you started building? Your dining space is very narrow too. Without seeing your house plan I'd almost say you'd be better off getting rid of the switchback stairs with the open area below that is just wasted space, put in a straight run stairs and then flip your kitchen and dining room

If you have not started building have you considered vetting your house plan in the building a house forum?

Sorry cpaartist I guess I wasn't clear enough in my original post. By lockup I mean doors and windows are in. Plumbing and electrical rough in are done. Yeah there is some wasted space below the stairs but we like the feel of it and are happy. It's obviously to late to go to the house forum and have the plans changed but we are open to any suggestions in order to make it a more efficient and user friendly kitchen. We are a youngish couple building a house for the first time and have no children currently so we don't need a ton of space in places like the dining room. Thanks for you feedback though.

I'll measure that distance at the site today.

Ah ok. So you need to leave the sink where it is, etc. Your next house you'll come here first. ;)

Is this a house or a townhouse?

What are the exact measurements of the two red lines I drew?

I have an open space like that in my home. I hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.

It ruins the view, because the handrail is where your eye goes instead of out the window. It wastes valuable floor space, and makes furniture placement difficult. It makes the whole main level echo-y with the sound coming up from downstairs. It's also a pain in the ass to try and clean those windows.

I strongly urge you to reconsider it. It seems fine on paper, but in real life, it's a bad idea. Get rid of it. Leave your island as-is, move the pantry down, and give yourself more counterspace and a more functional kitchen.

While you're at it, modify the staircase so you go down next to the exterior wall, giving your dining room the extra 4 feet.

Since it sounds like you must work with your existing layout, I would say keep the pantry (one of your original questions.) If you do the open shelf, you won't have any upper cabinets. And with a dishwasher, under-counter microwave, and seating (which requires legroom), and possibly a trash/recycling cabinet as well, there will be very little under-counter cabinet space either.

What about an L shaped kitchen with a smaller island? Or a U shape with the sink facing the living space? Is there a wall on the side of the kitchen or is that a railing that is open to below?

Do you need access to a basement with the stairs? If not could you use the space under the stairs for storage?

Mark_rachel, when you blow up the image you can see it's just a railing, which was why I was asking about it.

Technically it could still be framed in but would cost the OP a bundle for the change order.

It would be a lot cheaper and easier to frame it in now than it will be down the road, and then have to seamlessly match flooring, patch holes in the wall where the railing was, sheetrock, match texture on the ceiling downstairs, repaint two rooms, etc.

Ask me how I know.

OP do you both cook together? I ask because right now it is a one person kitchen.

I'd take a look at moving the sink. Since it's second floor should be easy enough to route drain over to existing plumbing (so long as joist depth is adequate to allow cuts?) ; feeds are easy with Pex. I'd also be taking a serious look at furniture in the living room by fireplace.

I realize this messes with the purpose of the windows and open below but then again it certainly improves the view from the sink.

Cpa artist- It is a house with a rental suite on the lower level hence we are living on the upper lvl. Distance from cooktop wal to stairs is 180" and the length of the peninsula is 140 inches. Attached is a picture of the space. The railing will actually be more of a pony wall. I relize it may not be ideal but... We like it it. Thanks guys.

I like the idea of a shallow pantry on the side of the fridge. Maybe rather than a 36" wide fridge I go a little smaller and allow for that to only kick out a couple of inches. Great idea.

Mark James- I will talk to my plumber. I may be able to move the sink as we have open web floor trusses below although not much of a view with the way our windows are aligned. See attached photo.

Changing the windows would be pricey and at this point in construction everyone is always up against the ceiling.

Mark james- wow you really captured the look of place. I like the L shaped kitchen and it would really open up the space. Do you have an overhead of what that might look like?

Do you have an overhead of what that might look like?

I like his idea and that's somewhat where I was hoping to go.
In his version, you actually also have room for a small prep sink on the island which I would absolutely do. Now you also have room for two cooks with a 48" aisle.

Mark, would you consider moving the DW to the end to make a larger drawer cabinet to the left of the cleanup sink?

"would you consider moving the DW to the end to make a larger drawer cabinet to the left of the cleanup sink?"

I have a Lemans to the left of the sink. I prefer those or susans to store small appliances and awkward/tall items to drawers. This is not a large kitchen which IMO means tailored storage instead of "all drawers" for maximum efficiency and convenience.

There's a few options I'd be considering after talking with a client but as many know I don't play layout on here, leave that to you folks.

• a prep sink with plumbing routed to one corner with tray dividers but then you lose the 4DB by the fridge. I'd only do that if it were a brand where I could incorporate the drawers in the shallow pantry and still have it open on two sides. I kind of like that idea.

• making the Lemans larger and move DW over, (middle size used suits the kitchen though)

• moving the PO trash from the corner of the range leg to between the lemans and sink, moves the sink down and put a base with tray dividers and a RO where the trash is now (kinda small for that though)

• moving the fridge further over and giving up the pantry- more counter but no pantry.

• of course some of you would want all drawers :)

Likely some other choices to consider. IRL a client would be presented with 3 or 4 options to start with (and I'd be showing the living room furniture since it matters here) and we'd discuss the pros and cons then adjust. I always depends on the client and what brand fits them and the budget hence what I can do.

Why do you have that wall jog where the refrigerator goes?
I would incorporate that into the other room so that you don't see that from the living room. It looks like an after thought.

I like the design but this is NOT a two cook kitchen. Forget the prep sink - you need the counter space.

Hey, guys

Thank you all for the responses and comments. We have had a busy week but now have sat down and played on the Ikea planner again to come up with what we posted below.

Things we can't change too much:

-dimensions of the A C and D walls.

-we can play around with how the Island is set up currently we have 24 " base cabinets with drawers, a sink with trash pullout and microwave space as well as a shallow base cabinet with shelves. WE are trying to have the sitting space around this island. How much overhang is best for this?

-on the fridge side we have drawers, oven, more drawers and the Lemans in the corner.

-the bottom of the kitchen is the double sink, DW.

-please also note this is not our final choice in fronts, counter tops etc. We are focused on layout!

Thanks again and looking forward to responses!

That extra cabinet on the island is odd looking. What is the space between the island and the fridge wall?

For seating at counter height you need 15" for the overhang.

On ikea sillu little ruler it shows close to 48" which is where we would like to keep it I think.

Mit, just a suggestion. Contact Moorea Hoffman at www.kitcheneering.com. She's my kitchen designer.

48" should be fine now that you have an L shaped kitchen. With the galley you originally had, you had no way in and out so needed more room. With the kitchen open at both ends, 48" is ideal.

I'd layout the island with drawers for dishes facing the DW, which I think is how Mark James drew the island cabinet on that end. The other end could be shallow shelves for small items like oils and spices, or it could be a pull-out for the same items.