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paul_mark_nielsen

Breeding advice newbie

8 years ago

Long story short. First encountered Hippeastrum last year in a rental, self polinated, seedlings growing yay! Research research, planning ahead. WALLS....but interest.

So being in Australia limits selection a bit, given the virus reputation with macquires I'm a little hesitant to consider those, so kind of limited to sources like gardenexpress and bloominbulbs (for anyone that wants to look up what's available). I'm looking to work with tetraploids, fragrance and lighter colours/patterned (with future view of using the offspring to create hippeastrelia once I've bred hippeastrum with the right combo of traits) so from what I can find

Apple Blossom - reportedly difficult parent
Sweet Lillian - pod sterile, difficult parent, unsure of ploidy
Jewel - double (not fond of double) how hard would breeding out double be? Of the crosses I've seen post Jewel + single = fully doubled offspring (which I have no interest in)
Misty - unsure of fertility or ploidy (and fragrance doesn't appear to be a big selling point of it so...)
Santiago - unsure of ploidy, red markings (can probably be bred out in the F2)

As can be seen they all have unknowns, problem breeders or have traits I'd rather not have.

So, if you were in my shoes which would you choose?

I'm leaning towards using Matterhorn as the seed parent (given everything seems to be seed sterile or very difficult seed setters while Matterhorn seems to be very happy to produce seed) of Jewel and Apple Blossom (being the two known tetraploids and the usual names that came up when looking at fragrant hippeastrums) and then crossing the best offspring (in the case that the fragrant genes are different so may align in a way that combines)...but the double nature of Jewel really really makes me hesitant.

Anyone have any advice, can clear up any of the unknowns in the above, have theories or experiences that may help me here? Really looking for anything that may help since I feel a little stuck.

Thank you

Comments (8)

  • 8 years ago

    I have a document that has all of the poidy information I have been able to find on Hippeastrum, both species and hybrid. Send me a private message on here with your email if you'd like a copy. I can see one difficulty you will face already - as far as I know fragrance is usually associated with diploid forms, so extracting the allele(s) that cause it into a tetraploid hybrid could take a long time. There are diploid forms with large flowers, so if that's what you're looking for there are other options.

    Protoavis z thanked everado
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The main reason I lean towards tetraploid is the future hippeastrelia, it's the end goal and why I'm avoiding red as I'll have more than enough of it later. From the various mentions of hippeastrelia I've only seen one via a diploid (using papillo) and the result was apparently sterile. When you look at other intergeneric crosses with sprekelia with diploid (like Habranthus Robustus) the result is also reportedly sterile. I also haven't found any of Dr Dave Lehmiller multigeneric hybrids (involving hippeastrum, sprekelia, zephyranthes) to go a generation further past the inclusion of zephyranthes (presumably diploid). So it doesn't fill me with confidence that it won't be a dead end or at best, a very very very difficult path on an already difficult path.

    If there's any counter information that demonstrates this isn't the case I'd be highly interested.

    I know Hans (haweha) crossed diploid/tetra hippeastrum (papillo x Donau) which behaved like tets sooooo it may still be a path, just more as a plan B.

    -edit-

    Just got the info. Thank you. Jewel is a dip...who'd have thought.

  • 8 years ago

    Soooo....I went back and read about Serafad in more detail, despite the initial claim it was sterile it produced seeds and they germinated. Not idea if this was sexual or apomictic so slight concern there, but rolling the dice and bought

    H.Papilo
    Mrs Garfield
    Sonatini Swan Lake (apparently fragrant...if nothing else red eye at base of throat could be interesting)
    Sonatini Pink Rascal
    Sweet Lilian
    Santiago

    and
    Apricot Parfait which is probably a tetraploid

    Perhaps not the most exciting collection (pale colours) but with the deep red from sprekelia I want a bunch of recessive genes to see if I can get a non red hippeastrelia.

    Also got a number of yellow rainlilies...just to see if anything crosses there.


    Thank you

  • 8 years ago

    Is it commonly known that pale colors are recessive? I haven't seen any info about how color is inherited.

    Crossing with yellow Zephyranthes seems to come up in discussion but I have not heard what the results are or whether anyone has tried it.

  • 8 years ago

    I only know of http://blog.plantdelights.com/xhowardara-little-princess-flowering-today/
    Although Dave Lehmiller did do a bunch of other crosses they don't appear to be well documented but if you google his name sometimes you get lucky.

    there's also
    http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Amaryllis/sprekant.htm
    but that's sprekelia x habranthus

    There's a lot of other reports and some scientific papers that suggest it's doable but rarely any photos so it's a bit suspect to me.

  • 8 years ago

    Hmm I wasn't aware of that cross. From what I've read, Rhrodophiala, Zephyranthes, Sprekelia, Zephyranthes, Habranthus, and Hippeastrum have at least a little compatibility between each other (obviously not every combination of those). I would love to experiment with those since so little is known, but I have enough plants to care for as it is. I will be happy having Sprekelia to work with for now.

  • 8 years ago

    I've read that too but I haven't see any examples of Rhodophiala crosses, I've read of Rhodophiala with Habranthus but there was no actual information about it so I'm a little doubtful.

    I'm interested in wide crosses (both within a genus and among different genus) because it's often new (or not common) territory. In this family though, with some (but very limited) proven crosses I think there's a lot of potential given the various traits available among the different genus.

    Anyways time to pot up Mrs Garfield, she just arrived.

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