I agree that their quality is significantly lower than a few years ago. I would also agree that the plant you received is really in unacceptable shape. In the old days (e.g. 3-5 years ago) every single tree from 4 Winds had beautiful, dark green, disease free leaves. That's just not the case anymore. I have also found they are much less responsive via email. Perhaps they are too busy.

-Brett

Thanks Brett. Wrote to them right away and sent pics and will keep fingers crossed. Want to transplant this and start working on getting it back to health but should probably keep in it's container in case they want it back?? Really feel sorry for it- looks neglected, and now rejected.

I agree FW is hit or miss. Ive had to have trees replaced. Im interested to know if they replace. I always have better luck calling.

Oh Vlad,

That is really depressing and aggravating. I hope that you get your tree and that it's a beauty this time. I'll be watching to see what the outcome is. Thanks for your input.

Lauren,

I'll be sure to post about their reply. Will call Monday and see what gives. Thanks very much.

Anyone suggest a reliable supplier of dwarf trees?

Nancy

I’m sorry your tree is in sad shape, I just got my order with a sad valentine pummelo with a bad looking graft and they offered to replace it when they had more in stock since the ran out after I ordered mine. Seeing Vladimir’s experience with them replacing the NZL I signed up for the email reminder and plan to preemptively email them when it gets back in stock so they don’t forget. I imagine it’s the squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing. They won’t want the tree back since they are a quarantine state but they may replace it or refund you for it.

I am sorry to learn of your experience. I received 2 choice Valencias just last week and they were very healthy and the leaves were a nice dark green. The only complaint I have is that one of them was pruned poorly on the top. I ordered 2 plants (1 choice and 1 premium) earlier in the year and the quality was good as well. Now all my trees are shipped from CA to GA so they are in a box for at least 5 days. Never had a bad shipment from them. I hope you contact FW and complain. There is no excuse for your trees to look as they do.

Thanks Sam, helps a lot. I'll go ahead and pot the poor guy up and start working on him. Really hope that they will offer to replace. When I ordered it I noted that had a previous bad experience and to wait on sending if the specimens they had on hand were not in good condition. It's like they don't think you'll notice that the tree looks pathetic. :-(

Denise, happy to hear that you received some beautiful trees. That's the way it should be. Happy for you and it's good to know that Four Winds can still fulfill their promises. Gives me hope. :-)

Thanks so much.

Nancy

Definitely not a good tree. My bouquet de fleurs is still very pathetic looking. I need to start a thread about it. On the other hand, the Genoa and villafranca lemon trees I got from them are beautiful.

It is disheartening to read how FW trees are not consistent in quality. I had reservations about reordering because I have read negative comments about other folks' trees from FW. Some had pests or nutrient deficiencies. I called FW and inquired before ordering because of my concerns. Of course all of these things can be fixed, but with the price of a tree and shipping, customers shouldn't have to do any of it. Shipping for me is $25 for each tree. I purchase from FW because they have the varieties I want and for the cost of a choice or premium, the canopies are pretty nice compared to other retailers I have seen. Considering what the citrus industry is facing today, your options are limited.

Thanks Laura and Denise. Now I wish I had complained when I first got my Tango as it was looking the same as this poor tangelo. It is interesting to know that there are people who still get nice specimens from FW. It's what made me give them a shot again. Maybe it's the end of the season for most people who order and they are parting with the duds. I've found a few other places like Brite Leaf I'd love to try so I'm hoping that they'll give me a refund. There's a place on Ebay that has Dwarf Tangelos with good reviews that I'd almost like to try too.

nancy

A question- I'm going to pot this up today. I should probably isolate it huh? Spray with neem oil, and keep it out of my LED's for awhile?

Nancy, I would tell them about your Tango and that you want a replacement for that tree as well. The worse thing that could happen is that they will say no.

I would spray with neem oil.

Why keep it out of your LED's? I see no reason.

Thanks Vlad. I was going to keep away from LEDs just because that's the conventional advice for my plumerias when they look pathetic. I'll put this poor guy under lights as you say.

They already said no about the tango. It had the spots and was pale green only. It looks better after two months of care, but even the new leaves have the spots. I hope over time it'll improve.

I am just wondering why you are going to isolate it. Do you believe it has a contagious disease? Is this tree an entry level size from FW? Was your previous tree the same size as this? If it is entry level sized, maybe FW doesn't pay as much attention to them as the choice or premium. I read somewhere that someone purchased an entry level New Zealand Lemonade and it was in poor shape upon arrival. This bothers me because I want a NZL myself and the only size it comes in is entry level.

A while back I called FW before placing an order. I spoke to Ashley about somebody's tree that did not look healthy which was posted on the internet, and she blamed the constant rain they had. Now the Bay Area/Sacramento Valley does get a lot of rain during the winter, but there is no excuse for trees to reflect lack of nutrients on the rain. There are ways to fix it. I think by switching the way they fertilize from a water system to granular would do the job. They are professionals for gosh sakes and many customers expect beautiful trees because of the cost involved.

Hi Denise,

Yes this tangelo was entry level. It was the only size they had. But have bought entry level from them before and they were lush and beautiful. The only thing I can think of is that because it's end of season they've given away their best entry trees and the crummy ones are what they have left.

I automatically think of isolating because it's what is done with a plumeria ( that I grow most of) that's not right, or shows signs of disease or pests. This plant has lots of leaves with brown spots, yellow spots, patchy spots, eaten up and droopy leaves. It wasn't dry when I potted it just now and roots looked healthy. I looked for obvious stuff like spider mites. Should I not isolate- is it ok to mix up with the others?

Have already decided that if FWG doesn't replace I'll just work on it and hope it looks happier in 6 months or so- and fuss loudly here. I live where the sun never shines and the wind blows 85mph winter and sometimes 50mph summer. So I grow everything in an indoor greenhouse under T5HO and LED lights. Spring/summer is all year round :-)

Let me know what you think about isolating.

PS. I have kids in the Bay area and Ashley using rain as an excuse for plants looking sad is kind of a cop out unless it was over the last winter. They had essentially NO rain for several years until this year.

I am no expert on citrus. My thinking is if it had insects or bacterial/virus issues then isolate. Until you get a response from FW and it makes you feel better, by all means isolate. It looks to me, like something happened with the roots which affected the leaves. Maybe over watering or nutrient deficiency earlier in the season? They did have a lot of rain. Again, no expert. Do you mind if I cross post your problem on a couple of citrus FB pages? There are more knowledgeable people than I who may have some idea what is going on with your plant.

I agree that it is possible that these are the leftover plants of the season and that the best looking ones were already sent out. You said the roots are healthy so there is hope.

That would be awesome to put it on FB Denise. Thanks so much. I guess I will isolate just to be safe.

I think Four Winds has had a hard year; but that is no excuse to sell inferior trees. Of course they sell the best first; and near the end of their growing season they may only have a few left that are not so good. I would never sell you a tree that is not the best I can produce; but if it is all they have left, they should advise you of the condition; and if you still want it, they should discount it. Personally, if we only have a few inferior trees left we burn them; but mostly we only produce trees to meet requests (60 days from order)... something they cannot do in California climate. We also do not sell less than 1,000 trees; less than that, if you are a friend/client/customer we produce a few trees for gifts.

Well they will not be able to say it is because of the winter like they did a few months back. I think they have had plenty of time to make their trees come around, heck, I can in just a month or two with good weather and fertilizer...

Either the original care taker of those trees who firmly believed in acidifying the fertilizer solution is gone, or they have changed hands..

Never in my life did I ever get a tree other than dark rich looking green and it was them that told me the secret to getting mine to look like that, actually the grower himself., in which I shared here and helped hundreds to get theirs that green too. Even now a few hobbyist here can get them healthier looking.... Then of course that was just a few years back.

One of the members on FB said it was root stress.

Arghhh Denise. If I start trying to make this poor little tree happy, any thoughts? Repotted in 5-1-1 with some lime and B1 added, and 1/2 a dose of Osmocote Plus. Neem oiled it. Will wait a couple days and then fertilize 1/2 strength Jack's 25-5-15 and maybe some Pro-tekt. Isolating for a bit. May give a little snip, and remove the brown leaves after I hear back (hopefully) from FW.

But appreciate anyone's thoughts to start perking this baby up.

Hey Guys,

I bought a Kishu and a Moro Blood orange tree from FW 2-3 months ago, and they were in great condition. Sorry to hear you guys having trouble with your orders. My moro already grew 7 inches from the time I bought it, but the Kishu is sitting put. Hopefully they will do well in the winter. Good luck to you guys having trouble with FW orders! I'm guessing that its the end of the season.

Have a very happy ending to this story.

Four Winds redeemed themselves, said they were very sorry and would refund my money. They really came through! Going to make another post about them and what a positive experience this was. A lesson learned too- don't buy at the end of the season.

One last question. Have already cleaned up this sad tangelo and it's looking better. I don't know citrus like I know my plumeria, but if a plumeria looked like this tangelo, it would need to be isolated (virus, fungus and others). Does this little guy need to be kept apart from the rest?

Thanks.

Nancy

I do not see any evidence of insects or disease so I don't think isolation is necessary.

Thanks Vlad.

I am glad to see that they made it right for you! I was at One Green World this weekend for there fig sale and ended up picking up a yuzu while I was there (in addition to 13 figs ;P) and I was talking with the owner about how this had been a hard year for citrus and they said that there's only a handful of growers and that they are having issues with their trees this year for various unnamed reasons so that's why stock is so low/lesser quality across the board this year. Though to be fair OGW's trees looked pretty amazing, all had healthy looking leaves and most had fruit even the kaffir limes! They started using a neem product on their trees this summer and I didn't see any scale. I was so pleased by this current visit that I will certain be back if they get an citrus varieties that I want in stock. As well as when I am on to the next obsession (pawpaw's once we move).

Most trees I got from FW were great and nothing to complain. Also great customer service and they will send replacement for the one tree that went down. If I have a question about management, I always get an answer from them.

Sammers - - 13 figs? wow! This is the first year my figs have produced so I guess I will see you over on the (relatively quiet) fig forum! - George

George, yep I went really overboard but I've just accepted that's how I hobby lol. Its the same with gardening, cooking, knitting, soap making, and other various crafts. There is no toe in testing the waters its an all in cannon ball ;)

The fig forum is so quiet but I am hoping by posting there often that others will follow suit.

Sammers, i also have the all in style hobbying. All or nothing. Canning, soapmaking, herb garden, citrus, figs and some im forgetting to list. I have invested so much time and love in my hobbies not to mention $! Im glad to know im not the only one.

Lauren I am glad to know I am not the only one!

<<There is no toe in testing the waters its an all in cannon ball ;)>>

I totally get that ... LOL

>>> cost me some significant $$$ over the years.!