I asked flat out what they used, and the response was I could leave my phone number and the owner/propagator would call me back because he would be able to go into great detail on the root stock being used. This chart will tell you the size in ground as well as potential in pot. www.fourwindsgrowers.com/our-citrus-trees/citrus-variety-info-chart.html

I have a pixie and GN from FW....both from this year. They are small and I can’t comment on the fruit quality, but the pixie tree they sent me, while not great, was a whole lot better than the GN.

John, why would you consider only Pixie?

I was actually leaning towards GN since some people say it is the most flavorful mandarin out there. I have not tried either one :)

I purchased a GN in May, a premium, from FW and was disappointed with the rootball size. I purchased a choice Smith Red and the rootball was larger. My GN has not grown much since so it may just grow slower than other varieties. I will say all my trees from FW have had nice full canopies and beautifully green. I think I will keep working with FW. They have the best selection as well.

Let the mandarin discussion begin! I'm always looking up different varieties, planning which I'll get next. I'm also leaning towards GN, kishu, California honey, pixie. I have a tango and miho Satsuma

My NZL from FW is still sickly looking but it has new tiny leaves coming out on several branches. Great success! :)

mikail,

Take off the one growing in the downward direction, very simple, just rub it off... it re-directs energy to the others.

Thanks, John! Will do!

ooh, glad you mentioned that. My limequat just started a flush (finally!) and I think I have some pointing downward.

Guys, how rare is Santa Teresa lemon tree (at FW)? Is it like another NZL availability-wise?

Has anyone ever bought it from them?

Santa Teresa’s became available in September and sold out within mins. FW offered me a replacement tree on another order and I asked for a Golden Nugget, but mentioned how much I covet a Santa Teresa. I was told they’d try and find one for me. That was 9 days ago and I haven’t heard anything. I think they only have a small crop and offer them two or three times a year.

In the past year and a half the ST only became available once for 12 minutes on September 1st 2017 before it sold out, the NZL has been available 3-4 times that I know of in that same time period from a hour to a day at the longest. So I would say it more rare than the NZL. Though prior to May 2016 they had some ST for over a month in stock, its one of those things where the popularity took off and now they can't seem to get enough of them . I know this info because I got both of these trees from FW and have been on their waiting/notification list. after I got my NZL I stopped getting notifications so they may have been available after too. I have only had my ST a little over a month and a half and its still transitioning from being re-potted, though it only dropped a couple of leaves so it seems to have taken it well. It was the largest premium tree that I have ever gotten from FW so well worth the money though the new growth was pretty sad looking. I advise you sign up for the notification and be ready to buy asap when they become available, I missed the NZL 3 times before I finally got it.

I purchased 2 Santa Teresa Lemon trees from Four Winds near the end of last summer. I had to wait for over a year before they became available again, and when they did I snatched them up as fast as I could. Here are a few pictures to compare the growth of then and now.. Around a year later...I love my S.T's..

After arrival and potting up..

The tree on the right had its roots chopped off at three inches all around and was stuck in a larger pot before being shipped to me, but despite all of that it has remained strong and continues to push out growth, blooms and fruit.

As a side note, Four Winds has a web site where they show the availability list for wholesale, on all of the varieties that they grow at both of their growing facilities. For October it showed that Winters and Watsonville each had 25 premium size ST's that were ready to sell. So far they have not become available for mail order, but I would give them a call and ask about it.

Where is that link on FW website? Could not locate it

I will need to locate it again, hold on Susanne. .

https://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/californiawholesale/

My $.02 is that FWG's customer service is pretty awful - typically a one sentence response to emails or they rush to get you off the phone as quickly as possible, and they never give you a useful estimate of when a tree will be available for sale. I emailed them in great detail regarding trouble I've had with my ST Lemon I got from them and have yet to receive a response. Meanwhile, Ruth from Harris Citrus spent 20 minutes on the phone with me helping to me to find a way to save a tree that I didn't even buy from her, and Stan McKenzie has also been willing to correspond via email to help me troubleshoot. I think that says it all. If the ST lemon doesn't make it, I'm going to order budwood from the CCPP for a Femminello Siracusano or I'll get a Bearss Lemon from Harris (she mentioned that she grafts lemons to Sour Orange or Volk, which was nice of her to share).

For those who are also fans of Italian or Japanese Citrus, I noticed that the CCPP is currently treating / rehabilitating Kabosu (a Japanese papeda / sour orange hybrid, kind of like a Yuzu but more orange-like) and Santa Teresa Lemon, so they should both be available in the medium-term for budwood orders.

Pac, I agree with you! Ruth and Stan go out of their way to be helpful to anyone who needs it in regards to citrus!

As of late, I have been having some assistance from Kendra at Four Winds and she has been helpful in regards to replacement trees. She has trees sent from the sister site and sends pictures for my approval before I approve them as a replacement or a new order... Although I get the feeling she does not want to continue on with this method. Lol.. I am patiently waiting (a week) for an email on a replacement for my premium Vaniglia blood that was not in good shape when it arrived over a week ago. They had a small pocket of the Vaniglia trees left and she picked out the nicest one for me but unfortunately they "mistakenly" sent this..

Ugly graft.. The whole top 3/4's of the tree's leaves and branches looked bad.

And thank you for the info of the CCPP budwood for Kabosu. I am very interested in that variety. . :)

Me too Jinny, Japanese citrus - especially those with Papeda in their ancestry (yuzu, sudachi) - seem to be the most well-adapted to cooler, more temperate areas (although there are obviously exceptions), and the Kabosu seems like a really interesting fruit to cook with.

Some of the leafs on my replacement cara looked like this and wondering what caused it? I have yet to wait for new growth but the graft looks very nice and no brown or dead twigs. I think this tree will flush out very nicely. Getting a premium Fukushu and hopefully it will look as nice as the little entry one I have here. Kabuso definately sounds interesting

Pac I have two feminellos and gladly send you some cuttings next spring. They are really big and need some pruning or I will never be able to bring them back in the house next year. Here is one of the two in husbands room. Just too wide to fit in the other room

Btw. this is a FW tree about seven years old.

Susanne - any interest in air layering before you prune? I don’t know how to graft a cutting. Where also can you can a reasonable priced feminello aside from FW? I haven’t really seen them.

Hi Susanne,

That would be very kind of you! I'd be happy to take you up on the offer. If I can interest you in a cutting of Rangpur or Yuzu, let me know. I'm also happy to share a cutting from my Marrakech Limetta once it's sufficiently healthy to take cuttings, but that likely won't be until the end of the next growing season.

I have not seen any Feminello anywhere. You can use the clipping dipped in growth hormone and root it. Light, humidity, warmth and ready to go ;)

That’s it? Just rooting hormone? I can do that. I want to prune back my giant key lime, but I don’t just want to throw them out, so I thought I had to air layer them. Is it more successful if the cutting is a certain size?

For air layering the branch should have mature bark( not green ) and warm temperatures, lots of light are preferred.

Alanna, Pearson Ranch has the dwarf Santa Teresa Lemon available now for ordering. They are a bit more expensive than Four Winds but at least they are in stock. I believe they (PR ) actually might get them from FW'S. . (Supplier)

http://www.pearsonranch.com/buy-lemon-trees.html

Alanna for cuttings I had good success when the growth was younger (still green)

Jinny, aren’t those trees from Pearson from FW?

They are FWG trees. Very nice people, but a bit expensive.

Jinny, I think whoever is shipping bad looking trees needs to be fired. Those employees should only be sending out trees that they would want to own themselves. If those employees have been there long enough, they should know what a healthy tree looks like and, if they don't, they should take the time to ask if it looks unusual compared to the majority of others on the growing grounds. The employees in the shipping department are giving FWG a bad reputation.

FW dropped the ball this year for sure but I still trust them.

My FW's NZL was really sickly and pale looking but now it is doing well, it has a bunch of new little leaves and branches.

Mikhail me too. Ordered another Fukushu from them, my birthday present. If they have a premium Meiwa, would order next year too. Mckenzie Meiwa was not great and the Meiwa from Mycitrustree not growing either. So, either meiwa is a very picky and difficult to grow tree, (both came with severe deficiencies, one worse then the other) or they don't like it here. Third might be the charm :)

Susanne, I am getting GN from them this week. Let's hope it will look amazing this time :)

Mine is scheduled for Saturday. Hopefully weather will be cooperative.

I just snapped a branch off my Meyer. I was opening the blinds and the entire window blind crashed down on my trees. Everyone else is okay, but my Meyer lost a branch. Is there any hope of saving it? It’s the same branch that was damaged last year. It was broken, but not completely detached. I used electrical type and held it together. I finally had new growth again. Now it’s conpletely off. It break in a v shape, similar to a graft.

Depending on how big the branch is, you could try to root it.

It’s a brown branch, one of the oldest ones. I dumbly tapped it again, but it’s not going to work this time. Now my tree is even more lopsided.

I got my GN tree from FW an hour ago. I am very happy to finally add another cool mandarin tree to my collection, however, I am a little bit disappointed.

I paid for a premium size tree but my new tree looks small, Choice Size at best.

It is, at least, twice smaller than Fukushu I purchased at Costco a month ago for $19. Please, see the pics below.

Do you think I am wrong here? Is it a correct size?

And do you like the tree overall?

Mail order large trees are much smaller than store bought trees, when I got my first trees from FW I was sad at what size Premiums were, I thought they would be just as big as my Meyer and Bearss I got from Osh/Home Depot (as they weren't that large to me) but it was much smaller and the Entry was practically a twig. Now I have better expectations on what the trees will look like. They also did just delete their choice size so they may have just potted up the Choices to be Premiums, it also looks like it was recently pruned so that may be it. If you are repotting it check the root size.

It looks nice to me. Nice shape and very full top. My Gold Nuggets grew fast, but I guess that will depend on the rootstock it is on. Best wishes with your tree.

Cory

Very nice looking tree I would say.

Mikhail Bay Area I purchased a premium GN from FW as well earlier in the year. My tree is small as well compared to other trees. I just measured the heighth and it is 24". It hasn't grown much at all. The rootball was very small (fist sized) compared to my choice Red Smith Valencia which I ordered at the same time. I felt cheated when I planted both. Keep in mind though that different varieties grow at different rates. Poor consolation I know. lol.

Your tree is nice and full as mine was when I received it.

Denise, I agree that whoever is working in the shipping department at FW'S is shipping out poor quality plants and it does not make them look good, but also believe that the managers need to stay on top of it and not let it get out of hand and go on so long.

Beautiful Gold Nugget, Mikhail

As a side note, Four Winds Choice size trees are usually 18-24" and premium trees are supposed to be more developed. So, I do understand the frustration . I purchased a premium Marumi Kumquat from FW's earlier this spring and was shocked that it was so tiny. About the same size as your Gold Nugget. But, it was a nice looking tree and chalked it up as just being a slow grower.

Guys, thanks for the comments! The tree looks very nice; just smaller than I expected. About 21" high.

We have planted it already. It will spend this winter in a nice sunny location near another baby tree, Red Angel Pomegranate.

Looks very nice. If this would be my tree, I would get rid of the stake. Most the time they are too tight anyway.

Here's my first expereince with FWG:

In September when I got the alert that the New Zealand Lemonade was available, I ordered it and contemplated ordering several other tress. I waited too long and missed the STL. I debated about the Genoa, the GN, and the Kishu, but you guys wisely counseled that I not go over board and I thank you for that (there are still at least a half dozen other varieties, that I have to resist the urge to buy on a daily basis!). When I received my NZL, it had spider mite damage and had lost half it's leaves. It had a decent shape and branching, but as I told FWG, it looked like something I would have purchased in the discount section at Lowes. It was my first time ordering with them and I was disappointed, so I sent an email. I received a professional email from Kendra where she basically admitted that they dropped the ball and the NZLs should have never been sold in that condition. They offered me my money back or a replacement tree. So, I opted for a replacement tree because A) I have a problem and B) I wanted to give them another shot. I emailed back and ground with Kendra and gave here a few trees I was interested in and ultimately settled on a Golden Nugget. Everyone is always happy with a GN. She kindly offered to search for a Santa Teresa lemon for me. It took two weeks and I hadn't heard anything, so I nudged a bit. She offered to have a picture taken of both a ST and a GN and let me decided. Another few days goes by, I nudge a little more and it turns out they're sold out of GN. She ended up sending me a picture of the ST and shipping it out the following week. Kendra was ultimately helpful and professional although she did get a little peeved at me when I pointed out the the website listed GN's for sale, but they were sold out and didn't show ST's and they had them (what I perceived as a slight attitude, could have just been me misinterpreting email). She explained that she did me a favor and pulled it from their 'sister site as they are intended for the shift up stock'. I think FWs and Kendra handled it well overall.

Status of NZL:

I received it about 7 weeks ago. It was tall, but sparse and missing lots of leaves (and they did not fall off during shipping) with spider mite damage. Roughly half of the leaves it had when it arrived turned yellow and fell off. I expect at least a half dozen more to fall off in the coming weeks. It put out a few new growth shoots right before coming inside for the winter, but only 2 survived. I expect that it will recover just fine, but I think it will take until the end of the next growing season at least to look as it should have when it arrived. I pulled it out of it's pot yesterday because I was going to put it in a different size and got a good look at the roots, they look happy and healthy. I do feel a little bit like a snob for complaining because I do think it will be a lovely plant some day (key words being 'some day'), but had I seen it in my local nursery, I never would have paid full price for it. It was not a great example of what FW's has to offer as a first time customer.

Status of the ST Lemon:

It is a LARGE tree. Like I said, I have no other experience with FW other than my sad NZL. My current citrus collection was all purchase from either my local nursery or Logees. My trees started tiny and most are still quite petite. This ST is a real tree and I'm a little intimidated. It is roughly 33 inches from dirt to talllest branch and 32 inches wide. I've seen all of your pictures, but it's hard to tell how big they really are. (I hear Susanne laughing at me for complaining that my trees are too small. It's going to be quite a jungle when they all get this big.) That being said it is healthy. There are a few leaves with white spots, but it doesn't look like spider mites.

This is looks like an iron deficiency or magnesium. I’m not sure

I found one buggy on it and I picked it off, wiped all the leaves with a damp paper towel, then a q-tip with alcohol a few times. I sprayed it with Neem oil last night and left it in a separate room. It was growing it what looks to be 100% bark and it was seriously root bound.

I'm no expect, but it doesn't appear to be grafted. There are these two tiny shoots just below the main branches. Should I prune them off?

There is a small cluster of tiny branches completely devoid of leaves. It's previous pruning does leave something to be desired. It really looks like someone just hacked away at it in odd places.

It looks fairly full in the pictures, but really there are three main branches and two are long and gangling. One has no branching at all. They are a little unruly and I'm not sure if I should prune the entire thing back several inches to encourage a full canopy and more branching from the base (like Susanne's Fukushu that she posted yesterday). If I do any pruning, I assume that I should probably do it in the spring? I know a lot of you are antipruning, but I want it to have a nice shape.

That looks like one really beautiful tree. I would not prune anything right now but wait till spring. (and yes you heard right, I was giggling when I read your comment )

I doubt it is not grafted.

Thanks for your update, Alanna!

My NZL had the same issues - sickly looking, spider mite damage, pale green yellowish leaves etc. I think we all received low-quality NZLs from FW this year.

The tree's older leaves still look the same but the tree itself is doing well I guess since it has a bunch of new leaves and baby branches. I am a happy camper for now :)

Oh, your tree looks much happier than mine! I hope mine will start to send out lots of shoots in the spring. It lost two more leaves today.