I can understand your enthusiasm, Erasmus: it looks wonderful. DH just finished reading the novel, which was set in the area where we live. He liked the book, I think, until the end which he hated. I think DH is more of a romantic, and a man for happy endings.

Erasmus, this is a gorgeous rose!!!! Somehow I always thought this was a once-blooming huge sprawling OGR from the name and never further investigated as I couldn't find a spot for such. However, looking at your blooms I think I'd find a spot no matter its size! : ) How is it for disease-resistance? It get excellent reviews on HMF in all categories. Where did you buy yours?

The story is interesting. I have the book in my library and may read it now.

I’m especially happy to read your glowing report! I have Chartreuse de Parme waiting in the pot ghetto. I have not heard too much about this lovely Delbard rose. I chose it hoping for a compact bush with blooms similar to Yves Piaget. I had a list of wish roses at Roses Unlimited and asked which of my list would remain the most compact. Yours is gorgeous and I’m eager to get mine planted soon. Can you comment on growth habits and size? Lisa

My Chartreuse de Parme is a big, tall rose in my PNW garden. It tends to throw up tall canes and then make laterals. Sometimes this causes the canes to bend with the, big heavy blooms. The fragrance is strong and you can smell it as you approach the bush. Had mine for three years with no disease.

Erasmus, thank you for bringing this rose to my attention! It was totally off my radar. The blooms are gorgeous! Their rich, raspberry pinkness with intense fragrance definitely gets high marks.

The color looks like a good one for you and Ingrid, Lisa. Me, too!

I was about to chime in alongside Vaporvac with a question about disease resistance, but Oldrosarian provided good info for my area. Thank you, Oldrosarian! It sounds like Pat's is doing pretty well for a bad BS season in Alabama. The wheels in my brain are turning. Whom do I know in need of this wonderful rose? Maybe me? :-) Carol

My plant is wider than it is tall. I haven't had it that long so it will probably still put on size. I think it's about 4' wide and 3 1/2 ' tall. It has better than average bs resistance. I spray but not that much this summer, and it is looking good. The blooms last a long time on the plant. I think I got mine from RU.

That's too bad about the sad ending, Melissa, but I think I could enjoy the book anyway.

I like some roses for their names but if it is not a good rose no amount of charming name matters. For example Cecile de Chabrillant. I want it to be a good rose, but it just hasn't been, yet. Had it in the ground where it dwindled away, potted it up where it dwindled away and now I have potted it up again, and it is finally reviving. Does anyone have a good plant of it?

I'm finding that most of the Delbards I have bought make good plants with good health. I bought a Le Petite Prince from Palatine last November and it is taller than I am, and has bloomed very well and is pretty much bs free. BIG blooms, still improving as the plant ages. My note on this picture says it's the first bloom. Even if the blooms weren't pretty I'd appreciate how cooperative the plant is.

Drop dead gorgeous are the only words that come to mind. That is a wow! rose.

Erasmus, Le Petite Prince is lovely! I'll have to check out that Delbard beauty, too. Have you ever grown Nahema? If so, would you mind sharing your thoughts on it? The photos are breathtaking. Blooms are that great shade of silvery pink that sets off purple Gallicas and such. Thank you! Carol

The book is great,especially the depiction of the battle. It is so stunningly well-written that, when reading it was practically like watching a movie : I could practically SEE what was happening. The rose looks wonderful,too.

I should have never looked at this thread...now I want it!! I have never heard of it and wow, what a beauty!! Gettin my google on!

I will have to get the book. For those who knew of it, did you know Chartreuse de Parme was named after it? I'd be impressed. I don't connect Chartreuse with Charterhouse. I wonder what the Italian word for Charterhouse is.

I want to document the life of a single bloom on Chartreuse. I took a pic yesterday of a two or three day old bloom. I want to take another pic in a few days, and a week later. I have detected pretty good fragrance on quite an old bloom before. Will see if I manage this photo story.

The reverse on petals seemed a little lighter than usual yesterday, kind of silvery.

I have grown Nahema. I didn't have a good spot for it and it declined in too much shade, plus I think cold got it. My nearby rose friend sold his house ( and big garden), dug up his Nahema and gave it to me. I got it in the ground this spring. It is doing fine, so I hope it'll continue to. His plant was big, beautiful, and well-branched. It has also been pretty clean. It reblooms well. Has that intense perfume, so it's another good one..very beautiful. Seems to me his original big Nahema plant died of cold too. Pretty sure the one he gave me was his second plant of it. I think it could be less hardy than some but I have heard of people pretty far north growing it. Maybe they'll comment.

Another Delbard I like for health, vigor, rebloom and blooms is Alfred Sisley. Dames de Chenonceau is also great. I have only had one in a big pot but have one I'm going to plant in the ground soon. Worth a spot in the ground if I can find a spot..have to sp some very soon to make room.

But Le Petite Prince has a soothing, cool color that should appeal to the lavender seekers among us. Another lavender I like a lot is Shi-Un but it's not a Delbard. I do digress don't I? Red Intuition ( Delbard) was new last Nov. also and is doing better than expected. I was told it's a florist rose, and not such a good grower but it has decent vigor in its pot and excellent rebloom and decent health so far. I think Centennaire des Lourdes (Delbard) was a parent plant of at least one of the more modern Delbards..it is a good one for health, vigor, and rebloom.

Erasmus, this is such an informative and interesting thread! Thank you for sharing your thoughts on several Delbard roses, including Nahema. I am just beginning to explore these, and your post has made me quite curious. The literary side is fascinating! My husband and I have been reading old classics since I inherited a pile of antique books. He's in the middle of Vanity Fair. I'm going to dig through the stacks to see if Chartreuse de Parme is among the many. Carol

Great information here! I’m going to have rethink the spot I had planned for my Chartreuse De Parme. I was thought it was going to be a compact rose. And I never expected her to be wider than tall. I despise moving roses, so this info is much appreciated! Lisa PS. And who knows how large CdP will grow in So CA!

Charterhouse is "certosa" in italian...

I had read the book maybe 10 years ago, though not in the original French. So when I first saw photos online of the rose, the name seemed familiar, but I didn't quite know why. Eventually the penny (franc?) dropped, and I made the connection. I liked the book very much, and like the rose- at least in photos- as well.

Great photos, Linda!

I was familiar with the French title of the book. Tried to read it in French a few years ago, but the language was too much for me: some books I can read in the original (Alexandre Dumas pere is quite accessible), some I can't. Stendhal is difficult. In Italian the title is La Certosa di Parma. Apparently there's a real and famous "Certosa di Parma" which however is not the one, also a real place, that the title refers to. Yes, it's confusing.

I read it in English translation. I can only read enough French to get me through French rose catalogues and Internet sites!

Lisa, it might be taller than it is wide in your garden. After all, oldrosarian says hers is tall. Mine is only about three years old.

I forgot to mention another Delbard I'm growing, Edward Degas. I was sent cuttings of this one in spring of '16. I have two in gallon pots..one is growing very vigorously, is clean and reblooms a lot. It seems no coincidence that many Delbards grow well.

Thank you, Erasmus. Maybe I’ll stick with the original plan, then. I’m running short on options, and the hole is already been dug. Edward Degas was on my list of 4 roses at Roses Unlimited. I just asked asked Pat which of the 4 would remain the smallest, and that’s how Chartreuse de Parme came to be mine. So I would imagine that Edward Degas will be larger than Chartreuse de Parme. Lisa

Lisa, keep us posted! I'm living vicariously through you guys until I can open up some more space, but that requires a chain-saw! P.S. I wished you happy birthday in another post, but wanted to make sure you received that message! : ) I hope you're still celebrating. I usually just go till the end of the month or the next big holiday. That brings you to either Columbus Day or Halloween.

Here are a few more pics of Chartreuse. First, here is a bloom from Oct. 1. Pretty sure it was a couple of days old at that time:

Here is the same bloom Oct. 5th:

And here it is Oct. 7th getting a little raggedy but still very fragrant:

So I think that bloom is nine or ten days old today. Had some temps in mid 80's. They just last and last. Here are some pretty leaves:

and here is something of the silver reverses:

Another bloom:

I really like Delbards- and those lovely CdP pics make me want to try it again. Mine developed a weird cane dieback issue..sickly as it was, it did still flower as much as it could. I ended up cutting the last flower off, then binning it..

If you like orangey/salmony stripeys, I can recommend Grimaldi- its a really tough rose, although you dont seem to hear much about it. I bought it on a whim, ( a rose sale frenzy may have been involved) then ended up neglecting it because well... I don't really like that colour. But it dealt with heat quite well, and kept putting out the blooms and refused to die, so I gave it to a friend.

Oh Curdle, you sound just like me! I don’t have the heart to SP a rose outright, so I neglect it if I really don’t like it. The three roses I have done this to just refused to pass on quietly. They fought back and lived in spite of my neglect. Then they earned some admiration due to their tenacity. The 3 mentioned are Louise Clements, Brilliant Pink Iceberg, and Louis Philippe. So far only Louise Clements is not allowed to stay. I can’t get past her orange, no matter how tough she’s proven herself. Vap thanks, I have indeed been celebrating. We had a big BBQ here on Saturday, and it was wonderful. I love having all three of my kids together at once! I received an amazing gift from my daughter, Ingrid. A gift that means there will be a wonderful celebration with just the two of us next month. The tickets were my gift! I’m so excited! Erasmus, I love seeing the aging blooms of CdP. We don’t always get to see more than the glamour shots, and as we all know, there’s a lot more to a bloom than that first gorgeous day. Somehow, CdP blooms remind me not only of Yves Piaget, but the aging blooms also remind me of Louise Odier. I have the brighter pink Louise Odier. Yves Piaget of course, make sense as CdP is bred from Yves Piaget, but not Louise Odier. Yet, the faded blooms have a similar look and color to the 3-4 day old blooms of Louise Odier. All the more reason for me to look forward to seeing my CdP grow and bloom. Mine was/is destined for a spot out front in a row of roses. CdP will be near Souvenir de la Malmaison, Yves Piaget, Silver Cloud, and Princess de Monaco( the old HT). I have been much more eager to plant my CdP after seeing your pictures, but my birthday celebrations have been taking turns keeping me either busy or exhausted. Things should calm down now, and I’ll check what the weather has in mind for the next little while. Here is my little CdP from Roses Unlimited. Oops, I see the pic posted up top. Lisa

Wow--that is some rose!

Does anyone in a cold climate grow Chartreuse de Parme? I ordered it for this spring from Palatine - they list it as hardy to zone 5! But Helpmefind says zone 7. It looks so beautiful that I decided to take a chance on it (and I'll plan on putting it somewhere sheltered and protecting it) but it would be great to hear from anybody in zone 6 (my zone) who grows it. So far I have never had any luck with Delbards, but I have only tried own-roots, maybe they'd do better for me as grafts. Any comments much appreciated - thanks in advance!

Frances, I can't help with personal experience, but I wanted to share that I would be comfortable relying on Palatine's zone listing. It may be that the HMF zone 7 note is a default of some kind. It seems like a number of rose descriptions on HMF contain inaccurate zones due to a default that was never reset. Carol

I have tried a couple of times to overwinter Chartreuse de Parme in zone 5 and it has never lasted through the winter, even in my warm zone 5 spot. I agree that Palatine is pretty reliable as far as their ratings go, but in your zone 6 I'd still be cautious and give it a protected spot.

I love the Delbards, particularly the striped painter series. I have grown Alfred Sisely and Henri Matisse for years and I've frothed after fleeting reports of Claude Monet that has been elusive. But by far the best is Edgar Degas. Do you mean that RU finally has this rose? I was so determined to get this excellent rose into commerce in the US that I convinced Linda Loe to root some cuttings from me. She says they're growing out well and Long Ago Roses should have some Edgar Degas before too long.

Just to whet your appetite, here are some pictures of the exquisitely variable Edgar. I probably have more photos of this rose than any other one in my garden, as he looks different each time I turn around. If you add in good health, a great branching structure and mostly cane hardiness in zone 5, what's not to love?

This shows the breadth he can reach even in zone 5

In the cooler temperatures it can get fairly dark

Even the bud is beautiful

It can take on a yellow tone

The "skirts" on the blooms remind me of the Degas ballerinas enough to consider the rose well-named.

OK that's enough - this isn't a thread about Edgar, but if RU has this one you should definitely consider it. It may be a bit wild in colors for the pastel lovers among you but I've found this rose plays well with more subtle pinks in the garden.

Cynthia

Cynthia, your Edgar plant looks wonderful!

Thanks for the responses! Carol, I hope you are right about Helpmefind. A lot of times they just list "zone 6b (default)" so my guess is that often it is not definitive. I do grow some roses that some sources list as zone 7, so maybe I'll get away with it! Cynthia, thanks for sharing your experience. I will put it in a sheltered spot, and I will protect it. Your Edgar Degas is beautiful! Maybe if I can make a go of CdeP, I'll try some other Delbards. I have had Papi Delbard for 5 years, and he has given me maybe 2 beautiful flowers in all that time! Moved him to a better spot, but if he doesn't do anything for me next year, he's out. Mme Bovary took one look at me and committed suicide (but maybe, given her name, that's her nature, lol?) In any event, I'm curious to see if a grafted Delbard, like I'll get from Palatine, will do better than the own-roots.

I'm glad Lisa who lives near me is trying out this rose because I'd love to know how it does in the heat. The petals seem thick and the blooms seem incredibly long-lasting. I would think it would make a fabulous cut rose.

I don't cut many roses . So far CdP does well in heat here but mine gets a little pm shade. Is not as hot as your area, Ingrid. The long lasting bloom I mentioned shattered the day after I posted those pics, but we had remnants of a hurricane. I have seen blooms last about 7 to 10 days before on that plant. It's own root.

The only two Delbards I have grafted are Soeur Emmanuelle which is doing great, and Le Petite Prince, also great. I have a Mme. Bovary struggling to make it in a bad spot, but it came from a friend who had a fine big plant of it. It's very thorny. Papi Delbard has not done well for me own root. Other Delbards seem good own root.

I need to quit coming on this forum. Now another must have rose. What an Incredible beauty. I have already checked for sources. What a sickness I have. It's called Seeitneedit.

I have the same sickness, Kristine! I’m trying to get it under control now that things are filling up. This is a dangerous place for those of us with “the sickness”. Lisa

Lisa, I'm pretty sure there is no cure.

If I want that Rose from Palatine then I meet a minimum of three, so you see how one rose can lead to a whole new planting bed. I wonder if my husband would notice if the lawn disappeared ?

How's the vigor of Chatreuse de Parme as own-root compared to Stephen big Purple or Wise Portia? thanks for any info.

Hey there Straw! I still have my Chartreuse de Parme, but I’m not happy with it. At one time BenT and I both wrote on someone’s post that Chatreuse de Parm isn’t that good on her own roots. Both of us had the same experience, although perhaps others have had better luck. We came to the conclusion that Chartreuse de Parm is better as a grafted Rose. Ours were/are (I don’t know if BenT still has his) awkward growing plants that lacked vigor. I get some incredible blooms but not very often. BenT then followed up my comment with one of his own, saying he was having the exact same experience with his. At that time it seemed as though those who sang CdP’s praises had a grafted one. I just scanned the above comments so I don’t know if anyone had an ownroot CdP that performed well. Hope this helps a bit. Lisa

Thank you, Lisa, that helps a lot. Chatreuse de Parme's parents are Big Purple (vigorous as own-root) and Yves Piaget (wimpy as own-root). So it takes after Yves Piaget (best as grafted).

Does anyone know of a source for Chartreuse de Parme? I grew an own root one for 2 1/2 years here in z5a, then it didn't come back after the winter 2021-2022. I'd really like to grow it again if I can find it.

It's a great book. The description of the battle is incredible-to me, it was like watching a movie; it is so well-written that you can just SEE what is happening as you read!!!

I think it does very well own root. Mine came from RU and is a strong plant to about 4'x3.5' and reblooms very well. It is hard to root.

erasmus-gw Mine was from RU also. They didn't have it when I checked with them unfortunately.