I would just get the standard size range

@miranda33 Thanks for asking. Here are a few considerations (1) Look of the 36" vs 30" (2) When I entertain, I would use more than four burners (3) I currently have limited landing space on either side of my stove and it is very difficult to manage (4) wondering what's better for cooking main meals - having 21" of space or the extra burners -- one school of thought is that the stove itself can be a landing spot too and therefore is optimal for flexibility.

Do you actively use all burners, when cooking larger meals, or do you use most of them simply to keep food warm or to simmer at low heat. Personally, I find that I just don't have the attention span to actively cook more than two dishes at the same time.

I am teaching myself, to use my oven more regularly. An oven is great for keeping dishes warm, and it also is amazing for slowly simmering foods for hours on end. That's how you make slow-cooked stews without ever burning the bottom.

Of course, if you already need the oven for some other part of the meal, you might hit limits here.

In other words, I would first explore if you can maximize oven space. I see that you allocated space for a microwave. Could you (afford to) turn that into a speed oven? That would give you an extra oven cavity, opening up a lot of other possibilities when cooking large meals.

If that's not good enough for your cooking needs, then yes, I would begrudgingly recommend the 36" range. If you do in fact need more than 4 burners, then that's what you'll have to do.

You don't have a lot of space in your kitchen though, and a 18" counter is so tight, it is almost not usable. This is doubly true, since you have a cabinet wall immediately next to it. Making that space 24" would allow it to be a lot more useful.

Alternatively, and again that's not cheap, you could convert your sink into a workstation sink. That effectively turns your sink into the primary prep surface, and additional counter space would no longer be quite as much at a premium. In turn, a 36" range would become more feasible.

36" for sure if you entertain or cook a fair amount. There is very little difference between 18" and 24". You are only going to set one pan on that surface in any case. The cooking surface is more valuable. You also might have room for a Boos square chopping block or similar portable island to help with set down space.

These come in many small sizes and long narrow ones too. This is too large for your situation, but just giving you some alternate ideas. I cook a lot and entertain, and I couldn't do it without a 36" 5 burner range. Get one with grates that cover all the burners so you can slide pans across without lifting much. Especially water filled ones.

Matters not, when your fridge is planned for the WRONG wall. Sometimes you can't have everything. Close up 36 inches of the newly "opened" 100" wall, reducing that to 64 inches. Put the fridge where you now have the microwave. Move the microwave to under the counter left of the range. Center the range. Lose the wine fridge, OR buy a narrow column style to put along side the fridge, 18 inches, further reducing the opening

Your kitchen isn't large enough for all you want. And a fridge left of ANY size range feels crowded, looks like a heavy beast and truly doesn't look great. Something has to go, and it's opening size, or wine fridge and in any case it is definitely opening size to 64 versus 100 inches.

We cant see the area on the other side, if the intent is to have a breakfast bar of sorts......well, then it is what it is!! Six inches will not matter one way or the other unless you cook a LOT, requiring five burners.

The other option would be to customize dining to island height of 36 inches, and use comfortable stools with back, allowing it to feel more like an island....and 32 is narrow....I'd eek out 36 inches for dining table. Chairs will tuck under more than your drawing indicates.

If you went with the 30 inch, as far as "cooking" while entertaining, would part of that be just to keep something warm? if so then consider a hot plate. Then you could cook and move, freeing up burners.

Can fridge be moved next to dw?

I may be mistaken, but isn't 36" range much more expensive than 30" range? That said I have a 36" cooktop and while I do not use all five burners, the space is needed when I have two sauté pans going, or a large pot and skillet...

From a purely functional perspective, I would recommend the 30" over the 36". Most people don't realize it, but hoods contain odors best when they are slightly larger that the stove. Most range manufacturers recommend 3" wider on either side, so a 36" hood is most ideal for a 30" stove. Think about it: When have you ever seen steam rise up in a perfectly straight line?

The other thing to consider is the proportion of space allocated to prep, cooking, refrigeration and storage. If you like to entertain, then you will need space for dishes and serving ware. I don’t see a pantry in your plan.

With similar space constraints to you, I went with a five-burner 30” stove with oven and warming drawer. There are also double oven 30” ranges.

One if my best decisions was a double waste pullout. Where are you going to put your recyclables?

Another option to consider is a taller, narrower fridge, say 30” wide and 80” tall. You will still have room for a cabinet above, but you get 6” more counter space.

For your spices, a door-mounted rack is wonderful. All the labels are visible at eye level. The narrower shelves behind mean things don’t get buried in the back.

If you have to ask, go with the 30. If you really needed 36, you'd know.

I have to agree that the refrigerator would serve you better if it were to the right of the DW. You should post your layout on the kitchen forum. They people over there are very talented and will see to it that you get a kitchen that suites your needs! :)

The op doesn't have an island . Thus, counter top real estate at perimeter becomes more important. Neither cook wall or sink wall is great for the fridge but the wine side IS. Losing 36 of a 100 inch opening may seem a give up. But it would make a better looking kitchen.

You just can't have it all in most kitchens :)

It's the fridge.......... Lol

Ok Jan, got it. Thanks. My purpose in redesigning the layout was to get the opening. The trade off I chose to make is putting the fridge in the corner. My first priority was the opening to my dining room. I'd like to hear from people about my question about the stove vs landing spaces. I currently find a 30" hard to work with and I find a 14" landing spot also difficult. I know I need a trade off and I'm trying to decide on that. Agree I have to make trade offs, and this is the one I'm asking about.

Thanks to those suggesting I put the fridge on the wall next to the dishwasher. Because of the "jog" in the wall I'd have to give up the main cabinet I use to store my dishes which for ergonomic reasons I need to have near the dishwasher. Putting it in that corner has it butting up against the window which makes it similarly awkward. The other suggestion my designer made was to put a pony wall in so I could keep the fridge aligned but we both disliked the look of it as it ate into the eating area. The fridge currently is in the back of the kitchen where the stove is shown. There ised to be a dip there that the fridge nestled into so it was flush with the back wall. I gave that up to another room to get storage. So this is where I've ended up. I'm very nervous that my final design will make my already small kitchen look smaller, but have already started construction. So keeping my current layout is not an option.

What do you find hard about your 30”? Does it have continuous grates, where you can rest a pot anywhere? If you had unlimited space on either side, would you still have a problem; i.e., is the problem the stove or lack of counter space? Is your oven too small?

Your plan will not physically work. You will not be able to open the left door of the fridge without choosing a very expensive built in model. Not a counter depth. A built in.

The 36” range greatly increases your costs again, and decreases your usable counter space. It’s a poor choice for this kitchen

Taking the wall down actually makes the kitchen function much WORSE.

Anyone plannng s 130K upper end kitchen remodel needs to be working with better professionals than this. Too many errors on these plans.

There is a price to open space . 64 inches of opening means an easily rebuilt 36 ish inches of drywall Drywall is less expensive than any appliance but a toaster

How often do you need more than 4 burners? Daily, weekly, couple times a year? What about the oven? I think the oven in a 36" range will also be much bigger, taking quite a bit longer to heat up. I opted for a 30" plus a portable induction hob, but haven't had to deploy it yet. I have 19" of counter on each side of my cooktop and am very happy I don't have less.

You should post the whole floor plan with the same complete measurements as the part you've supplied. Put it on the Kitchen forum. You'll get a good range of ideas.

Bluntly put, Sophie IS definitely blunt. But she will be right 99.999999 % of the time on the technicalities. ( She is correct on the fridge) . Understanding you may have an issue with that, there ARE flaws in the plan. You may cook and prep differently than many..... but I think if you sit with this plan and picture it in use, you will see some of them. If you truly want 36inches for a range...... and have no island, you might want to reconsider more than those six inches.

Yeah, Sophie tells the truth and knows what she is talking about. Her delivery is harsh, but if you can have a bit of thick skin (which you'll need for the upcoming stresses of a kitchen reno, so might as well start now), you are getting some wise advice.

Sometimes this forum is an enabler of mistakes because we want to be kind, and we want the poster to feel good. I do it too. It is kinder in the short run, but in the long run, the real facts, tough though they may be, will benefit the poster.

Remodelingincali - "trolling" does not mean making rude remarks. It means providing deceptive, malicious information to stir up emotions on websites.

The counter space is more important in this kitchen than an expensive 36" range that will then require upgraded ventilation that includes a make up air system.

Everyone is right about the fridge. Not only is that a poor location for it, but no, you won't be able to open the door. That's a pretty basic error on the part of your designer.

The door will open as there is an opening there - the wall will be to the proper depth to house the fridge. We have discussed that at length and I trust my KD not to put a fridge in a place where I could not open the door -- she's been in business for a very long time. No the fridge location is not ideal, but if I"m to open up the wall into the dining room, that's the only place for it. Otherwise I would have stayed with the current layout. I appreciate the advice to go with a 30" range, I think that's the best option as I probably entertain once a month, but the counter space on the sides will bother me every day.

A 29" wall will allow one of the new Samsung fridges that are 36" deep to open past 90°. Because the box will extend past the wall. And possibly one of the 33" deep standard depth fridges could open as well. That would be model determinate. But nothing shallower can open far enough to allow the bins to be removed, or full access to the left side of the refrigerator. Plus, there is no filler on the refrigerator panel to the right, and the panel depth does not match the wall depth.

@The Cooks Kitchen -- thank you -- understand your point. This is not the final measurements -- these were preliminary not knowing what fridge I will get. Once I've decided on a built in or counter depth, she'll help me to specify the return wall needed there. But your comments do point out to me that I would be smarter to get a 30" stove where there might be more room for error/allowance. Thank you for the the actionable and kindly stated feedback.

Move the fridge to the wall with the peninsula, facing in. Maybe recess it into that closet and you can have a big full depth fridge that doesn’t take up as much projection.

Place the peninsula on the range wall. Now it is actually IN the work zone, and will get used for a very social prep zone and snack area instead of just a small snack area.

You will have much better traffic paths from the family room to the dining area too.

Hahaha "Painfully great" advice above!

If you move the frig or not I'd suggest a 30" induction range- Bosch Benchmark. Better performance without heating up your space. And when not in use the smooth top doubles as usable countertop. It cleans up easy with a paper towel.

dan1888 does the Bosch induction range scratch? I use a cast iron many times a week and the appliance sales person recommended against induction for me (as I mentioned I'm a bit clumsy and am used to my current continuous grate format which allows me to slide heavy pans) I was told it scratches unless I'm careful to lift up every time. 3-4 nights a week, I cook with three main pots going at once a le creuset dutch oven, 12" cast iron for searing, and a stock pot (or smaller pot) for rice/pasta/etc. I would love an induction for exactly the reasons you laid out. What's your experience been?

With induction, you can put down paper towels, or a silpat between the pan and the surface. As long as you don’t do extreme high heat cooking on either, both will help prevent scratches. Checking the bottom of your pans for any burrs or snags does the other part.

Glass isn't easy to scratch, kinda like quartzite or granite. If you have rustic surfaces on your cast iron a belt sander can make it acceptable. I'd suggest Chantal 21 cookware off Amazon. Copper and titanium included in the stainless alloy is very responsive.

Do move your refrigerator. I suggest at the end of the cabinet run where the sink is located. This will leave you a nice area on either side of either size stove for plating and prep. Which size stove to get? How do you cook? Do you need more than 4 burners? Even when I was cooking rather elaborate multi-course meals a million years ago (when I was young - was I once young?), I only rarely could have used a 5th burner. But if you do need it, get it. Yes, you will need a bigger hood and whether you have to have make up air depends on your house. I have a Vent-a-Hood 36" unit with 600 CFM and needed no such thing.

Thanks Anglophelia -- Here is why I made this decision -- if you still think I should move the fridge let me know. If you look at the plan, If, I moved

the fridge will be right next to the dishwasher and I would lose all that storage. Granted I'd make it up by putting cabinets where I currently plan for the fridge, but I would be walking across the kitchen to unload the dishwasher every time. A 2-3" filler on the side (which she has accounted for) allows me to open the door. The wall next to the fridge could be the same depth as the fridge (i.e. that 29" wall could easily be 24" if needed to allow the door to swing past 90 degrees. I have budget to get an built in vs. counter depth if need be. Even with that, you'd still move the fridge? (to other pros on this thread, I'd like to hear from Anglophelia, please)

Why would your dish storage be all the way across the kitchen??? That makes no sense. The range would shift to the left, and you have additional cabinets between the sink and range. Plenty of room for dishes there.

The sole problem with the kitchen is too much opening and the snack bar location. The fridge is best opposite the sink wall.

As of now, it's 100 lbs of kitchen in a 70 lb box. That's the real issue. Sophie's idea a couple posts above was best of all worlds

I do think Sophie's plan might be one that you should strongly consider. It gets you more usable corner cabinets, better seating, and gives you a more protected work zone.

Really rough mock up with no uppers.

Better yet face the fridge in to sink wall shorten the peninsula, put the micro under the counter left of range and realize that's the most function you can have in the space. Essentially what I said first post:)

Bonus is no opening fridge door in major traffic. ( sorry Sophie

And there can sttill be a good four / five foot opening . Skip the wine fridge.

Or just close more of right side, lose wine fridge/ snack bar and fridge is adjacent to range.

Anything is better than current locale

As long as the stub wall is cut back far enough to allow the fridge door to open, I don't see a problem with the fridge location. Most of the work will be done in that protected triangle, and while the cook is busy, a helper could unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without interfering in prep and cooking tasks.

As for the question about the width of the range, I'd suggest 30" range with the 36" hood, as drawn, but I'd use a 36" super susan, and move the sink over to the edge of the window. It would be off-center, but the faucet can be centered on the window to help disguise that fact. Then the trash pull-out can go between the sink and susan, with a narrow pull-out for spices (or trays or cutting boards) between the range and the other side of the susan.

Click to enlarge.

Yes, I can now see - no room for dishwasher. I like Sophie's idea but I would end the countertop next to the range so you have a bigger opening. I'd also make sure it is a counter depth refrigerator. It would be nice if that wall could cover a bit more of the refrigerator. It's just not ideal in anyway.

Hi all, thanks for your concerns and the time you've taken to look at my layout and offer suggestions. I currently have a door in that space now that swings out just fine as there my dining room is behind it. I can see that without seeing the layout behind my kitchen why people would advocate moving the fridge, but doing so disrupts the flow. I've also had 3 designers come to look at the house all suggested independently the same fridge placement and that I will easily be able to open the door in the same way I open the current door now as the relief wall will be measured (or they will take it away and just provide a panel pending structural). Appreciate all the feedback and it helped me make the decision for a 30" range to give me room for error, fillers etc if needed. I'll post pictures when the remodel is done. Thanks all!

@cookskitchen -- you are right that is a better layout if I didn't have a hall way leading to the back of the house at the left of your drawing. Someone (me) would be constantly tripping over those chairs. Your drawing was the original concept, but we flipped it as it doesn't work with the flow. We also flipped it as the peninsula is then more cohesive with the dining area behind it. Thanks for taking the time -- that was super kind of you and I'll ask my kitchen designer what she thinks of this plan one more time (considering she laid this one originally, but had reconsidered given that left hand corner. Thanks again for your time.

Can I just say one more thing? I'm upgrading to a 36" range, not because I need 5 burners at the same time...but because I need 3 at the same time, often! I have mostly 12" pans that I love to cook with, and I can fit only 2 at a time on my 30" gas cooktop. It drives me crazy! I can't fit even a small pot at the same time (as a 3rd) without the pot and a pan touching. Good luck, please post pics when done!

luckyblueeye, that is exactly the issue I'm facing. Thanks for sharing your experience.

That is an interesting conundrum, indeed. This had never occurred to me. I just measured, and yes, you are correct. On my 30" Bluestar RNB, the per-burner area is exactly 11". So, if I want to use a pot bigger than 11" diameter, I'd have to either not use one of the adjacent burners, or I'd have to use a smaller pot on that burner.

That also explains, why the range has a 5½" blank grate going through the center. It makes sure that there is no interference side-to-side. There only is interference front-to-back.

Having said that, I have owned my range for many years now, and I cannot recall this ever being a problem. But then, over the last 20 years or so, I have accumulated a very carefully curated collection of steel skillets, cast iron pots, tri-ply pots, and a wok. They perfectly complement each other; but it took a long time to find exactly the combination that works for my cooking style. It's not a large number of pots, but each and every one of them has a well-defined purpose.