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wethenorth

Basement Window Replacement - What To Do About Rusty Metal Frame?

8 years ago

Hi,


I am a noob when it comes to all things windows. I am planning to replace three very old basement windows.


All three windows have metal frames, and have significant rust on the exterior window frame/sill.


Not knowing anything about this, I presumed that a window installer would replace the metal frame but none of them recommend doing so.


Some installers give me no option at all, saying they can and will only replace the window pane (leaving the rust). One installer has suggested capping the frame with aluminum. I am concerned though that simply capping the rusty wood is just hiding the problem, which (perhaps?) might get worse behind the aluminum cap.


Price for me is secondary to correct/quality work.


What is the correct course that should be followed here?


Pics below showing an example of one of the three windows.


Thank you GREATLY for your feedback.





Comments (31)

  • 8 years ago

    Call a custom window company. I recall replacing three basement windows that a customer bought himself. He measured the opening and ordered complete windows, frame and all. All I had to do is fit them in place after removing the old frames.

    wethenorth thanked User
  • 8 years ago

    Replacing them is messy work but not hard. I just did three on my son's house. Old steel frames cast into the concrete with single pane glass windows that leaked something awful-- you could feel the breeze around them. I suspect they had a negative R value.

    I cut the steel with a cut-off wheel, broke off as much concrete as possible around the opening to get the steel out, then took down obvious bumps with a combination of chisel and grinding wheel (that's the messy part!). I then built a frame inside the opening with 3/4" PT lumber to provide a square, flat surface for installation, patched with quick-set patching cement, and installed new windows into the opening. We lost maybe an inch on three sides of the total window opening; since they were oversize windows anyway it came out fine. With 2" of rigid foam on the inside of the wall and spray foam around the newly installed window and filling gaps behind the trim the whole thing came out pretty airtight and looking nice. If your frames aren't cast into the concrete life is much easier, it's a simple swap.

    It took a long full day to demo and then install three windows, not counting trimming them out, so it's not going to be cheap if you hire it out. From an energy and comfort point of view it was a big win in making his half underground family room more liveable.

    With more of a budget I'd have brought someone in with a concrete saw to make a neater, bigger opening, using a window well to install full-size window.

    wethenorth thanked rwiegand
  • 8 years ago

    Do those windows have a lintel? Is it badly rusted?

    wethenorth thanked User
  • 8 years ago

    Hi - Thanks for your response. No lintel. Rust is pretty well on sill only except one of the side frames of one them has rust too. Nothing high up though. Seems like rust is related to rain and ground moisture.

  • 8 years ago

    We are putting window wells under all windows now to prevent future damage.


    For the most part, except for one window, the rust is on the sills. Except for one:


    Replacing the window frame seems like a non-starter because none of the companies I am talking with are recommending this, and so I am concerned with pressing them to do something they don’t want to do and then having poor workmanship.

    I am pretty sure that the frame is metal, and that this is corrosion/rust and not wood rot.

    I know that covering wood rot is not a good idea. But if it’s just corrosion/rust, is it a bad option to just cover it with aluminum caps after the windows are replaced?

    Thanks.

  • 8 years ago

    Lets get our terms straight. The damaged area is not part of the window frame. I see no damage to the window frame itself; the damage is to the sill and one of the vertical jambs. These are not part of the window frame. If you pay a company to replace the windows, they will likely simply replace the existing, undamaged windows with new undamaged windows, and not deal with the rusting issue you are concerned with. Window companies replace windows, and often do not typically do replacement of damaged sills and jambs. If you hire someone to fix this, make sure they are agreeing to deal with the caps, and that you are not paying to have things fixed that don't need fixing. Someone competent should be able to remove the damaged areas and flash them over with new material without you needing to remove or replace the windows themselves. Once this is done, you can prevent future problems by installing window wells.

    wethenorth thanked kudzu9
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    I've seen and replaced a lot of windows, but none just like this. My concern when you say that it is metal "frame" all around and that there is not a lintel; and I suppose what you have may be a metal "buck" that the window is in which is supporting the brick above. You could likely get away with removing it all without (a lot of?) brick falling down, but you will need support for the bottom courses of brick above the window long term. You could try to install a lintel if there is enough space behind the brick to sneak some amount of vertical leg in there. (Talk to a brick mason and have mortar joint cut and filled at the sides under the course over the window) Or have a machine shop weld up another box to replace what is there. Or just try to cover the rust damage and put in a new window as the simple way the others have suggested.

    wethenorth thanked Straight A Builders, Inc.
  • PRO
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Cut everything out, frame out the opening using 1x PT wood and install a new window without nail fins. Wrap exterior exposed wood with white aluminum so you don't have to touch it again and you all done.

    wethenorth thanked GN Builders L.L.C
  • 8 years ago

    No lintel?

    wethenorth thanked User
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    @SaltDawg Angle Iron is already in place or the rim joist is doubled up and supporting the load. This is an old house, and from the picture or the OP, there are no structural issues noted. I'm sure the installer will note on site if there're any structural issues.

    If this was new construction there would be a concrete lintel if the window was built into a foundation wall... if the window location was directly under the sill plate (Like In The Picture Below), the rim joist at that location would be made as a header and joist over the window would be suspended on beam hangers attached to that header.


    wethenorth thanked GN Builders L.L.C
  • 8 years ago

    The OP above says no lintel.

    wethenorth thanked User
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    The OP's photo appears to show small brick pieces between the window buck and the brick above it. I doubt they would be there if there is a lintel hidden in there, but there could be. Of course the brick may hold in place on its own anyway and hang on any ties that remain with the exception of the bottom course or two; And the new wood buck could help with that if it is held out to a plane that falls in the brick and supports it a bit. Not the best construction method without a lintel, but probably what most contractors would consider acceptable on an old structure and with these conditions.

    wethenorth thanked Straight A Builders, Inc.
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Two more cents: While supporting masonry on wood is not the best idea, a 2x buck would to better than a 1x if utilized in that way.

    Also, be careful using aluminum over PT lumber. The copper in the treatment is dissimilar PH than aluminum. The chemical used to treat the wood is chromate copper arsenate (CCA). The copper in the chemical reacts with the aluminum in a galvanic reaction that corrodes the aluminum. That reaction is faster in the presence of moisture. They have changed the copper content and reduced it over the years with newer methods so that galvanized nails hold up longer now, although stainless are still the best choice. In a situation like this I would use treated lumber 2x for the buck with a sill sealer in between the wood and concrete/block to prevent direct contact, then install a window with a nailing fin, then a 2x2ish "brick moulding" piece of untreated spf (ripped out of a standard 2x4 or whatever) over the nailing fin, which is then wrapped with aluminum and caulked in place water tight.

    wethenorth thanked Straight A Builders, Inc.
  • 8 years ago

    Thanks all for your feedback. It's been very helpful.

    Here is a really dumb question: How can I figure out if these damaged sills/jamb are metal or wood?

    I pulled a small piece off and it seems to be metal. But the look of the discoloration/deterioration on the jamb has a wood rot resemblance.

    To some extent, my next move is going to be dictated by whether or not its wood or metal.

    If it's metal, I am going to have the rust removed as best as possible and just cap it.

    If it's wood, I may be more cautious because I am concerned that capping it and trapping moisture inside might lead to termites.

    Thank you.

  • 8 years ago

    Re dumb question. Poke it with a nail or similar

  • 8 years ago

    Magnet?

  • 8 years ago

    Possible Salti but basement window bucks were typically made of steel. And even if aluminum then smack the magnet against it and it should certianly make a differnt sound then if it were wood..............lol.

  • 8 years ago

    I made the assumption (yikes) when he said metal that it was steel as that is the common material cellar window mucks were always made of. Kewanee was the manufacturer I am familiar with.

  • 7 years ago

    I have the same problem. I'm curious what you decided to do and how it looks. Assuming you did it.

  • 7 years ago

    I understand this is an old post - did you find somebody to get this fixed? I have a similar issue. thanks

  • 7 years ago

    Hi,


    I established that the sills were made of metal, and I had them cap it with aluminum.


    (In the end, as I recall, there wasn't much else that I could do because no windows contractor would suggest doing anything but cap the sill -- as replacing the frame would be a problem in light of the load bearing element of the window area).


    Two years later and I am pleased with the results. Will take a photo and post.

  • 6 years ago

    Would you mind posting a picture? I have the same issue.


    Also, what type of a contractor does this type of work?

  • 6 years ago

    Can anyone post the name of a company that will repair or replace corroded metal frames around basement windows. I cannot do the work myself.

  • 6 years ago

    A small one man mason contractor would be the guy I would call.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I agree, I would look for a painter and focus on how they address the details. Painters are a dime a dozen quality one are are hard to find.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I always reccomend to replace these windows with a vinyl replacement window, not to mention 95% of the customers want the same because they don't want to spend money to fix old rusted frames or restore old deteriorated wood frames and after spending all this money to fix, they still have an old window which will required maintanance.

    Replacement windows come in any size with insulated glass with screen, can be a hopper, sliding or double hung depending on the size of the unit, etc.


  • 6 years ago

    The windows are not the problem; it's the metal caps around the foundation out side of the windows.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    @HU-563754075 If its a cap most likely the frame was wrapped with aluminum. If the frame behind it is not damaged, and only the cap is damaged, re-wrap and re-caulk to prevent water intrusion.

    If they wrapped the window frame to hide deteriorated wood as some do, that will not solve anything, it will get worst, just replace the entire window.

  • 6 years ago

    Pictures? Sounds to me that the issue is the window frame which would all get replaced with a vinyl basement unit or replacement window.

  • 6 years ago

    No, I had the windows replaced about four years ago. The installer painted the frame at the time. Since then, rust has eaten through it. One person on this feed said that he had the frame capped with aluminum and painted over it. If you can perform work of that type, please let me know.

    Thanks