I got them at Tradewinds, Amy. Let's see. . . and celosia and ornamental pepper. What happens if you don't get the paperwork done. . . . maybe he'll forget to need it today. Giggling. AAGGHH. Forgot to get Early Girls! Well, truly. The only MUST HAVE that I have left on my list moneywort (creeping Jennie). Not counting the Annabelle hydrangeas and new brug for next year. Okay, so six new plants next year. They won't be cheap, though. . .

That's what I was concluding, Amy, but included some of both.

Exactly, when is it? Hahaha. I was making up lists for the individual beds this morning. There is NO way I can grow everything this year, and will be taking some things out, based primarily on diseases, and sun and shade and weather. And next year, I will be disciplined about using the fabric pots wisely. Uh-huh.

I keep meaning to mention a funny story I heard when we went fishing Sunday. When we stopped at the Marina to see if the weather was going to clear a bit, met a funny charming 40ish couple who live in Tulsa but have a trailer at the Marina. She gardens bigtime, she said. . . and collected chickens. She rattled off their names to me. Then she said her hubby is threatening to make her give them up, because she insists on fixing them breakfast every day. Toast and oatmeal. Guess who that reminded me of, HJ? I laughed SO had!

I was telling GDW what you said, Dawn, about not having to buy any seeds anymore--so this gardening stuff eventually DOES pay off. I know that's true, and know next year's ordering will have tapered off significantly. Now I can see some laughing, but you have no idea how many I ordered this year.

I've been sitting at my desk all day--did some paperwork for Mom's stuff, entertained the little cats, ordered seeds, traded emails with some out-of-state friends, and this. The bulk of time was on finding seeds and organizing my spreadsheet and updating it.

So although it really was NOT a wasted day, it always feels like it to me if I'm not doing physical work.

Nancy, if my mornings allowed for it, I would TOTALLY fix my chickens oatmeal especially in the colder months. : D As it is, I'm doing good to get Ethan's breakfast made. I know he's old enough to grab a bowl of cereal, but I like for him to have eggs and fruit and sometimes toast in the morning. Actually he's old enough to do that too, but I'm ridiculous and like to fix it for him. He's been a little lost the last two mornings. I've been so sick that I didn't fix his eggs. He had to grab some PB crackers and a banana. Tom puts up with my weirdness and if I wanted to fix oatmeal for my chickens, he wouldn't complain.

Speaking of chickens. I had a nice surprise in the nesting box this morning. A tiny green egg! Second baby to start laying. It was either Sunshine or Rosslyn Kaye,

It's pretty cold out and Ethan has 4 friends over playing music in the shop. I hope they are staying warm.

The aloe vera plant was left out during the freeze last week. It looks pretty bad, do you think it will make it? The chickens were pecking at it today and seemed to think it was good. I hope aloe vera isn't bad for chickens.

I don't have any garden news other than the garlic was finally planted.

I hope everyone stays well. I was so so sick this weekend. I managed to get everything done that needed to be done...and all but collapsed yesterday. Without going into all the details, I basically slept on my couch in my office until time to pick up Ethan, drove him to trombone lessons, slept in the car, drove home and was in bed by 6 or so. I actually took off work today (felt bad because I had committed to help someone today with something). I feel better, except for a headache.

I'm not going to look up winter sowing OR seeds right now. I want to, but shouldn't.

Nancy, Feel free to experiment all you want! I did it for ages and ages after moving here, but I've been tapering back the last 2 or 3 years and intend to continue. My goal is to simplify, simplify, simplify.

Pepper seeds are fairly long lived if well-stored---probably easily for 5 years. That's good, though, because when you buy too many, you have several years to use them up.

Seeds of Early Girl tomatoes are common on seed racks. I'm pretty sure I saw them on a seed rack in Tractor Supply on Sunday.

Amy, I say plant the violas wherever you want (and certainly where they will be safe from the chickens). My chickens will eat almost anything that is green in winter, except I've never seen them nibble on either autumn sage or verbena bonariensis, both of which stay green all winter here. Sometimes they go in and out of bloom all winter, but the chickens don't even nibble at their flowers. My chickens do like violas, and the violas I've had here in the garden for a few years now do reseed volunteers, which usually pop up out of the ground around February.

Jennifer, I generally do not prepare oatmeal (or anything) for our chickens. But, if we have snow/ice on the ground and temperatures below 20 or so, I'll scramble some eggs for them----and they eat them quite happily. I always wonder if they realize what they're eating at that time?

I don't name the chickens either, but some of the roosters earn a name that relates directly to how mean they are and how much I dislike them. Only Augustus has an affectionate name (that was his name when Chris bought him) and I usually call him Gustus, Gus, or Goosey, while Tim calls him Gustav. Poor bird. He has too many nicknames, but he loves humans so much that he'll respond and come to you even if you just say "Hey, you!"

The aloe might make it. Much depends on how cold it got and how long it stayed cold, but I've had them survive being left out on an unexpected freezing night though sometimes they have died back to the soil level and then put out new growth.

I'm glad you're feeling better. Being sick is no fun.

Dawn

I'm strategizing. With the numbers of tomatoes and peppers I'm planting, I figure I can plant 4 little cups of each variety. ROTFL!! And therefore it will be of paramount importance to keep all labeled accurately this year!!!

Dawn, no, it's not like I want to experiment. I would prefer not to. It's that I have to to find out what works here!! But at least you and rest have helped!

Hi everyone. Seeds have been arriving and I've done good this year with organizing them. Amy, delete the spreadsheet I sent you. It's updated now.

It was warm enough to work outside today, but the leaves are too wet to blow. I hope we have a few dry days so we can get another round done. Otherwise, nothing going on outside. We cleaned house today--Garry vacuumed while I cleaned the bathrooms, fridge and stove. Heaven knows it all needed it!

I just now got your weed joke, Rebecca. . . I'm not always this slow! Sheesh.

Nancy, We did the opposite of you and Gary---we dirtied the house today. It rained lightly all day and the dogs were in and out, in and out, in and out, bringing in mud on their paws each time. It wasn't that there was a lot of rain, but it was enough to make some mud. So, tomorrow, assuming the ground has dried up a bit, I'll mop up all the mud that came in today. I thought about mopping it up tonight, but it would be pointless because when they go back out later to do their doggie business, they'll just bring in more mud. Mud season is one of my least favorite seasons. Normally, by now, the oak trees near the dog yard would have dropped enough leaves to cover the ground in the dog yard and there wouldn't be much mud. Unfortunately, most of the trees still have most of their leaves. I've thought about raking up leaves from the front yard or side yard and dumping them into the dog yard to cover the ground. At least we're cold enough now that there shouldn't be any snakes hiding in the leaves.

I was thinking today when they were talking about the snow in far NW OK that it was a good thing it wasn't going to snow here because with all the leaves still on the trees, it wouldn't take much snow, sleet or freezing rain to start bringing down trees.

I got a garden catalog in the mail and saw some things I like, which isn't the same as seeing things I need. I have a lot more discipline in terms of not buying seeds when I distinguish between what I want (I want everything) versus what I actually need. It helps that some stores here still have the seed racks in the stores---I am less likely to go online and order a bunch of stuff I don't need when I can see things I do need right here on the local seed racks.

Dawn

Just reading Dawn's above comment makes me feel stressed about the filth of my house. AND I just want my Thanksgiving decorations up. I'm late this year.

I have no idea what's going on in the garden because I got in after dark. The minute I walked in, Josi was whining. The country music awards blaring, Ethan was playing bass guitar, the cat was meowing and demanding attention. Dirty dishes in the sink. I just wanted to sit down! I think everyone is good now. The noise of my day just couldn't handle the noise in my house tonight. I gently had to shut everyone down...or mute them just a bit. Maybe do some homework instead of playing an instrument? Can someone take Josi out? Seriously. But I know it's Momma coming home and they all want my attention. I really need to find a way to be home full time.

(Garth, how many beers have you had?!)

I drug the aloe vera in and will take a pic at some point to get advice.

In good news, I am feeling much better! I'm so happy about that. I'm glad to be well.

I am hoping for a lovely weekend of getting stuff done. Yay! Please, please let nothing dumb happen. Please let it be a great weekend at the house! That's what I want.

Am I selfish or a whiner? I'm sorry If so, but y'all are so nice that I think I "unload" here.

You're the best.

Everyone must be winding down their gardens right now. . . ha, Dawn! Our leaves have been falling quite a lot since we cleaned them up a week ago. Ditto about mud season. I really hate the mud that gets tracked in. Yes, it has gotten nice and cool! I wondered if the snakes had slinked off yet. I'm glad to hear it.

I think I'll just throw the garden catalogs in the garbage when they start showing up! No! No! If I never have another flower seed, it will be fine. How many times have you all said THAT to yourselves. As it is, I don't know that it's humanly possible to plant some of all the new flower seeds I've gotten this year. Not with MY growing equipment and existing beds. . . laughing here. Hmm. Maybe we need a new bed, right? Yeah! That's the ticket!

How are you feeling by now, HJ? Back to good, I hope.

Let me ask you all if one could plant a small clump corn, say in an 8x6 foot area in the raised beds. I was thinking 4 short rows. . . would that few give it a chance to pollinate well enough?

We still haven't dug up our potatoes. We need to go to that. I'm not optimistic. The vines were/are pretty spindly. And I really do need to go pull up the tomatoes that aren't going to produce anymore and peppers. Very next decent work day.

And we are so plain Jane compared to the rest of you. We really only want potatoes, onions, garlic, tomatoes, peppers, greens, and cabbage. Yes, I love asparagus most of all, but it would have to be in an outside the fence bed, and then I'd have to actually build another bed. And beets and carrots and peas and beans. . . . sigh. I decided broccoli takes up too much room, although I guess I could do broccoli instead of cabbage. We love all the rest, but those are really staples for us. With so little sun and being confined by the sun, that's our reality. Ahh, if someone had just built all these beds for us 30 years ago!

Now flowers. . . . that's quite another matter. And thank goodness there are lots and lots of flowers and shrubs and herbs that will grow in these other beds, and I do plant to spread the herbs all around the yard,

And, by the way, Dawn, I loved your story about Tim and you, and you knew immediately he was the one for you. That story made my day, that day!

Hi HJ. I also want for you to be at home, so we see more of you!!! LOL. You know, I went through a lot of crazy-busy taking-kids-here-and-there-and-everywhere years, and not ever being able to have a dog because I was gone so many hours a day, and at work, working often, 10-hr days with a hour of commute. And many of those years I was a single mother. And then when Wade was over all his accident stuff, I finally got serious hard-core jobs--those were the 12-hr day ones. You know what I figured out? One just can NOT do everything. That's exactly why I didn't have a dog or try to grow veggies, or go to as many grandkids' functions as I should have. . . I am at heart an introvert, who happens to love people. But I love our interactions here. It is somehow so different.

But most, I treasure alone-time (being with GDW doesn't count--we're both alone people who love to talk with each other, but we usually only gab on at dinner or after dinner. Some days, we can go all daylight long without saying anything hardly.) Weird but absolutely wonderful.

Hazel, you just have SO much on your plate. I understand--I've been there; but I wish you didn't have so much on your plate, nonetheless.

xoxo

Here are some pics of the aloe vera. What would y'all do with this plant. I like it and use it for various things, but it's looking rough. Maybe a bigger pot for one? I've had it since it was teeny tiny. Notice the chicken damage. Can I just cut it back? I really have not idea how to care for it. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Nancy, thanks for being so kind. I don't have it bad at all...I'm very fortunate in so many ways. it's just that introvert thing. The need to have plenty of time at home in my own head. You get it. Plus, the things I'm most passionate about, are mostly at my home. I'll try to whine less, but like I said, y'all are so nice that I tend to complain here instead of other places.

Hj I don't think that's whining. Just sharing. And that's how friends become friends just sharing

Shared some beautiful radishes with a couple people at work they loved them. I want to ferment some to see if I like them.

Sweet potatoes have been in shed with heater for 2 weeks now.

Are they done? I am going to take some to work to cook tonight.

Had the best day in Lubbock yesterday with 2 garden friends church and getting groceries. I can not wait until that door opens all the way so I can start moving. Maybe the week after thanksgiving

My little garden is doing well. Kale did not make a good stand but carrots beets arugula did. Herbs are still doing very well. Parsley, dill sage, cilantro love this weather.

And leeks. I planted in spring they were hiding in weeds and came out growing like bandits. Are they going to be any good?

[[Hugs]] H/J. We all get it. You deserve a quiet weekend. I have an Aloe Vera, it's in the bedroom, and doesn't get enough sun or attention. It is stretching toward the sun, draping itself out of a big pot, BUT there are 2 babies coming up in the pot. When they get a little bigger I'm going to cut off the deformed mother plant. Mine got sunburned once, but it hasn't been outside since. Mostly they thrive on neglect. Let it be for a couple of days to see what shrivels. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell what is damaged and needs to be removed. Even if the whole top dies back, it's possible new shoots will come up.

Dawn, we vacuum, and the dog thinks we have removed her decorations, so she finds something to shred and strew around the house. Mopping, only the kitchen is tile, so we've cleaned our feet on the carpet first. I'm waiting till closer to thanksgiving to shampoo the carpet. Do you know they have a thing like a carpet cleaner for "shampooing" dogs? Mine don't like vacuums. Can't see a shampooer.

In the last few days, Honey has taken to sitting with me and snuggling. Yes, she's big for a lap dog, but we've found a position that works. I think she's looking for a soft spot to lay down because she chewed up the dog beds and they're gone now. If anyone knows of an indestructible dog bed let me know.

I plan to plant garlic today (yes, I'm later than usual). It went down to 31 last night. Maybe colder further out in the yard. I meant to bring the violas in, but they look like they're ok.

I'm stalled on my ordering spreadsheet. It's too early to order I think, some things still read sold out. Surely they will get fresh seed. And of course, I'm still finding things. Baker Creek's Facebook had cool looking Mizuna yesterday. Even if I didn't eat it, it would look good with pretty mustards like Dragon Tongue.

I second what Amy said about aloe veras surviving on neglect. In April or so, Garry and I transplanted two large ones and separated enough out for a third large pot in regular potting soil with a bit of sand and watered, then watched as it got sick and nearly died. Come to find out, we watered it. Bad bad bad--LOL. So I said we'd just ignore it. We did and now it's HUGE.

Nancy, To keep the names of varieties straight, I either double label them or triple label them when starting the seeds in the cups. To double label, I use a Sharpie or paint pen to write the variety name on each cup. I do this as I plant each variety so there's no chance of messing up the labeling. Then, I insert a second label (made from a mini blind slate, written on with a garden marker, paint pen or Sharpie) into the soil-less mix and leave it sticking up where I can read the name. Then, if I think triple labeling is worth the time, I make an identical mini blind slat label and stick it down into the soil so it is totally hidden. The cats or wind may remove the label they can see sticking up about the soil-less mix, but they don't get the one totally hidden beneath the soil-less mix. The real trick is when potting up to a larger cup---you have to remember to move the buried label with you but not to bury is so deeply in the new, larger cup that you cannot find it again if needed. When starting seeds in 72-cell flats, I use a mini-blind slat for each cell, but also make a map of the cell showing what was planted in each cell. This double coverage works for almost anything, except for having the wind, an animal, a careless human, etc., dump a flat on the ground where the plants fly out and are piled up on the ground (or on the floor) and the labels fly around and land wherever. But, you know, sometimes stuff just happens and all we can do is try as hard as possible to label everything and keep it all straight. Sometimes everything goes wrong and we end up planting a bunch of mystery plants despite our best effort to avoid having that happen.

Regarding the aloe, most succulents are very tolerant of neglect and seem to thrive on it. I have killed more aloes and other succulents by overwatering them than by underwatering them.

Amy, Our dogs Princess and Ace are like that, which is why they live in Tim's office when they are not out in the dog yard. There is nothing they won't shred or chew up, so I do my best to keep them in that one room which at least limits how much damage they can do. I keep thinking they are getting better, and it will seem for a while like they are, but then they will lose control and tear up something. Their typical destruction is to chew up the blankets I put over the sofa and chairs to protect the furnishings from the puppies. After they've chewed enough holes in a blanket, I buy a new one to replace it. It is aggravating, but I fear that without a blanket to chew, they might chew the furniture. So, I just buy inexpensive blankets and consider them expendable. We also have tons of real bones, rawhide chews, dog toys, etc. that they can chew to their hearts' content---which they do. However, even having a plethora of other things to chew does not prevent them from eventually chewing up their blankets.

Jersey always has been a chewer, but she is 10.5 years old now and settling down. With every dog bed she's ever owned, she has chewed holes in the cover and pulled out the stuffing. She has had her newest dog bed for maybe three or more months and hasn't chewed on it a single time. I think she is enjoying having a soft, fluffy, comfy dog bed that is not lumpy because she's shredded it and removed the stuffing. Maybe she's finally learned. Jet is not a chewer, but sort of became one. He would lie there on his bed and watch Jersey chew holes in her bed and pull out the stuffing---so he'd copy her and do the same thing. Now, since Jersey hasn't destroyed her new bed, Jet hasn't destroyed his either. Perhaps it is just old age---having a comfy bed for their old bones may mean more to them than chewing up and shredding their beds now that they've reached fairly advanced ages.

I've never seen the dog shampooer and don't my dogs would like it either. They hide from the vacuum cleaner. Maybe a dog would tolerate it if you used it on them from the time they were small puppies. Or, maybe they'd be terrified of it from Day 1.

Kim, The sweet potatoes, assuming the temperature was high enough, should be cured by now.

The leeks ought to be fine. You can leave them in the ground quite a while. I usually begin to them once they're about an inch wide. You can harvest as needed and let the rest stay in the ground, well-mulched. If your ground freezes, you need to remove them all from the ground before it freezes. If you were to leave them all winter, they'd bolt at some point in the spring.

Jennifer, When damaged leaves wither back to the top of the soil-less mix, slice them off and remove them with a knife. The rest of the plant will regrow and fill in.

It does look rootbound, so you could repot it. When you do that, watch for baby plants. Sometimes you have baby plants coming up beside the mother plant and each baby can be planted in its own pot.

I agree with Nancy that one thing we learn in life is that one person cannot do everything they need to do or want to do in the time available. You just learn to do whatever you can in the time you have and you learn to not sweat the small stuff.....and, in life, most of the things we worry about getting done/catching up on/etc. is all small stuff. The big stuff---caring for ourselves, caring for our loved ones, being a good community member and doing our jobs for our paid employers--that is what you take care of. The small stuff? You squeeze it in whenever, wherever and however you can. There is just a limit to what any person can do in a 24-hour day, and nobody is able to do more than they're capable of doing. That can be hard to accept when you have a long To Do list and limited time, but it is the truth. If a person's To Do list is a mile long, and they have 30 minutes to work on those To Do items, then only 30 minutes worth of stuff will get done. I am guilty of going out to the garden each morning with a mental To Do list. And, of course, since I live and garden in the real world, stuff happens, things come up....and very few of the items on the To Do list get crossed off the list that day. It is what it is. Until and unless God gives me 48 hours in one day, I'll only ever be able to work within the parameters of a 24 hour day, so I just do what I can and leave the rest for another day. It has taken me forever to learn that no matter how hard I work, I just cannot do everything I want to do on any given day. I think it is important for us to love ourselves and acknowledge that we do the best we can on any given day, and that is good enough. It has to be. The alternative is to let yourself feel like you never achieve enough, you never accomplish enough and you need to do more---and I think it is unfair of any of us to put that sort of pressure on ourselves. Whatever we do on any given day---it. is. enough.

And, you can complain here all you want. That's what friends are for---we blow off steam and vent to one another and here, on this forum, we know we have many people who understand us and who've got our backs.

There are days I feel like my home is filthy. Guess what? We survive the mess. No one gets sick from it. No one dies. Probably no one else but me even notices that I haven't dusted or mopped or vacuumed or whatever. I have a friend who has a plaque on her wall that says "Dull Women Have Immaculate Homes". Ha! I should have that tattooed to my forehead. I guarantee you that if I can find something to keep me busy so I can avoid housework, I do. Eventually I cave in and do the housework but I find it frustrating. As Phyllis Diller used to say, the problem with housework is that you can clean up the house and get it all spic and span, but it doesn't say that way.....and, next year, you have to do it all over again. Ha! Don't we wish we could wait a year in between cleanings? There are days I clean house all morning, and then it seems like every pet and person who comes in the door messes stuff up, and by the end of the day, I cannot even tell I spent the whole morning cleaning. It is what it is. I have a feeling that when each and every one of us is on our deathbeds, we won't be lamenting the fact that we never kept our homes quite clean enough---we'll be lamenting the loved ones we are leaving behind, perhaps, but we won't be thinking about the chores we never quite managed to get done in a timely manner. I try to cut myself some slack and turn off those thoughts in my brain that are saying "you only swept the floor today, you should have mopped" or "you only cleaned one bathroom, what about the other two?" I've learned (or am still learning) to be content with what I can do on a given day and to try to avoid worrying about what I didn't get done. Tomorrow's another day.

I don't think you're whining at all, Jennifer, just expressing some of life's frustrations. On any given day, the rest of us do the same. It helps to have people here who understand. We all must support one another, cheer for one another, comfort one another and support one another---there is so much mean-ness, so much unkindness, snarkiness, competitiveness, and even downright evil, etc. out in the real world that we all need a place where we can just be loved. This is that place.

Dawn

I told Garry yesterday after I cleaned the bathrooms and fridge, and he'd vacuumed, "Okay; we are not allowed to use the bathrooms or fridge, and only stocking feet in the rest of the house and no dogs or cats." HAHAHA!

Ive been told I baby mine, which is why I cant keep them alive. So last spring I bought some from a guy at the flea market (3 pots with 4 or 5 each for $5). They get almost no attention, water once a month, and seem to do great.

Oh, believe me, Dawn. I will keep those little rascals identified from start to end this year!! Painful lesson last year. I thought the mini-blinds were brilliant last year, but I was in a panic to get some right away, and I got I don't know how many seed markers for $6.00, so. It must have been more than 100, because there are at least 100 left. But thanks for the reminder, I'll order mini-blinds and/or seed markers.

One thing I love about Garry, and us, is that we don't have clutter in the house--the art room's a whole other story. And so it takes us a long time to actually SEE the filth. I always see it in the kitchen and dining room floor first, but even that takes a while to notice. Good camouflage here. I lived here for 2-plus years before actually looking at our naughty pine kitchen cabinets for the first time, last month. Oh MY gosh! Speaking of filthy. I wonder if any or our kids or friends noticed. I never once had. Believe me, they were TRULY FILTHY. And the only reason I finally DID think to really look at them was because I had white cabinets at one of my homes in Minneapolis, and I wiped them clean every couple of months. So I remembered that for some reason, looked at my cabinets and that's when I say grime on all the handles, and streaks and drips and splashes on all of them--some were truly disgusting! Speaking of cleaning. I need to wash the outsides of our windows next week.

You know, Dawn, the thing about cleaning house, or the yard, for that matter, is that the only time anyone even thinks about is when it isn't done. If a person keeps a clean house all the time, no one notices, not even oneself. One of those thankless tasks. SO. Maybe it's GOOD to let the place get really bad--then when one cleans, everybody notices it!

Sounds like we're all agreed on how to raise an aloe vera. Just plunk it in and don't pay attention to it! lol

Yeah, HJ, you're good; most of us have been there, and I would wager most of us are too hard on ourselves, including you. . . I did/DO get frazzled when I have too much social stuff or people stuff. . . that DOES drain me.

Amy, I will guarantee you that in 2 more months, Tom and Jerry will be competing with Honey for title of "worst-behaved" "pets" ever! They are about to turn 5 months, and then will be entering their teens. They are precocious, however. They got kicked out of our bed a couple times each last night. Woke up and the toilet paper roll was unrolled; the sweet meadow grass braids that were on my dresser were on the floor with some chunks torn out. Some dried flowers in a vase were broken off. Last night while Jerry raced across the table and knocked over the napkin holder, Tom was out here knocking a box of conte crayons off the art supply shelf. I can see I need to do further "kitty-proofing."

I'm going to do serious winter sowing, as a matter of necessity, but decided to look for easier ways than cutting apart containers and then duct-taping back up, so searched for over 2 hours online this morning looking for cheap alternatives. One of these days, winter-sowing is going to be recognized by money-making companies as a good deal, and they'll be providing ideal winter sowing containers at a cheap price. Meanwhile, I DID FINALLY find what I think will be some great containers!

Plants, veggies are still growing, some of them nicely, so won't worry about doing anything with any of them for now. And I see it's supposed to be in the 60s next week, so will be tickled to get more leaves collected--there are plenty right now, but command appearances tomorrow in Claremore and then church dinner back in Wagoner.

And Kim, good to hear from you. I am SO impressed by your gardening successes! And yeah, there are failures, as with us all. But YAY for you!!

Regular nursery pots with saran wrap over the top work well, and no cutting required. As long as there's 2" of soil, I seem to have no problems.

And check thrift stores for mini blinds. I've gotten them for less than a buck.

I told DH to save the mini blinds when he redid the rental house. He didn't. I got steak markers at the restaurant supply store. You know, the ones that mark your steak as well, medium or rare? There's not a lot of room to write and the first year I used numbers. I didn't like the numbers, so I abbreviate. I only use those in little cups, I use cheap plastic spoons in the garden, or dollar store clothespins on trellises or tomato cages. I also write on the paper seed starting cups and solo cups, but I'm old and somehow I always miss marking at least one thing, usually more, so it's not a matter of elimination to figure out what I missed. I draw maps of complicated plantings, like when I grew several varieties of garlic or carrots. This year I'm only growing 2 varieties of garlic, and the clove colors are different, so it should be easy to keep track. I've also added a column in my spreadsheet for position in the bed. So, bed 3, NE, would be the NE corner of the bed. I'm better at keeping track of that early in the season. I'm not sure I've marked where the kale and collards are now. Maybe I should do that. And last year I had a column in the spreadsheet for the tray I dropped and wasn't sure I relabeled correctly.

Dawn, my couch is old. It was my mothers and had worn armrests when we got it. The cat has clawed it. I've kept a twin bed sheet on the seat for years, because previous dogs sat on it. I try to keep pillow cases draped over the arms so the cat can't scratch there. But Honey found a spot on the side where she tore the fabric and pulled out stuffing and foam. I like it because it's long and can serve as an extra bed, but I am going to have to figure out how to cover the damage, or find a new one. I always thought children were the reason we couldn't have nice things. Just for chuckles, here's the shampooer.

I wasn't done, accidentally hit submit. Better than loosing it I guess.

Kim, will you take your herbs with you? I could easily leave this house, but not the garden. Every year that becomes more of an issue. I'm really excited for your new situation!

Sigh, filthy houses. Mine is bad. I've told myself I will work on it daily till Thanksgiving and get it in better shape. DH put up my new shelves yesterday. It is a 4 shelf wire chrome thing, but we left out the 3rd shelf so the citrus trees could be on the bottom shelf and not hit the upper shelves. When seed starting time comes I can get as many as 6 flats on the upper shelves, so it's better than the 2 I could do last year. BUT, this meant I vacuumed under that window thoroughly for the first time in a long time. Went through the box by the back door where garden gloves and apparently ALL my pruners were living...4 of them.

Nancy, you should show us what you plan to use to winter sow.

I did not plant garlic yesterday. I checked the moon planting calendar. I don't always plant by the moon, but if it's convenient and timely, I will. Monday is the day, so I thought I would wait. DH didn't feel well, so not much really happened. Time to get moving.

Well, Amy, after Jen's comment, I realize I need to think about it all some more before deciding. I'll let ya know.

We're leaving for Claremore in a few minutes. Had to bake a pie this morning to drop of at church for this evening.

Nancy, Being a cat person like I am, I find myself endlessly amused by the antics of kittens. Eventually they grow up enough that they aren't quite as entertaining, but I have noticed that one kitten brings out the hidden kitten inside much older cats. It has been a long time since we've had a cat that shredded the toilet paper, and I'm not complaining about that. Our cats like to hook their claws into cardboard and tear it to shreds, so I give them cardboard boxes to tear up before I eventually take the boxes out and add them to the compost pile. It is amazing how long the cats can amuse themselves with plain old cardboard.

That's true about house cleaning too. When it is clean and neat, I don't think about it....probably for far too long and then, one day, I notice it isn't so clean and neat any more and I wonder 'how did that happen?" Ha. I know how it happened. I just wish it wouldn't happen.

Amy, Ace has chewed on the arm of Tim's recliner in the office/TV room. Tim doesn't even notice it, but it drives me crazy. I can put the blanket over the whole chair and the dogs will leave it all for a couple of days, but eventually they drag the blanket off into the floor or off into a corner. I've thought about putting a slipcover over the chair, but I think they'd just chew up the slip cover. They never chew like that when we are here----they always do it when we're gone for a few hours. I could lock them up in the dog crate while we're away, but they sleep in it at night (otherwise, they bark all night) so I really don't want to make them stay in it for long periods during the day. Sometimes Ace or Princess will put themselves up in the dog crate in the middle of the day, which usually is a sign they did something they know they shouldn't do and they're hiding for fear they'll be found out. Half the time I can't figure out what they did, but the guilty look on their faces tells me they did something.

The dog shampooer would send my dogs running for the hills. I can guarantee it---they don't like anything that makes noise--a hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, blender, etc. I bet it is one of those products that sounds better than it actually works in real life.

I think most people love their succulents (and many other house plants) to death when they first start growing them simply by giving them too much water. Once you realize they thrive on benign neglect, you're golden and they'll live forever.

We're back in drought here, which is not a huge news flash. Our autumn rains, meager as they are, just haven't bothered to show up here this year. We need them. They usually are our saving grace in between the heat/drought of July/August and the driest months of the year here, which tend to be Dec, Jan and Feb. If we don't get some good rain soon, we're going to be in trouble when those big, windy cold fronts come sweeping down the plains....and the hotter than usual and drier than usual winter that's forecast for us is not comforting. It is the opposite of what we need.

Here's the year-to-date rainfall map, showing how most areas are in pretty good shape, but a couple are not:

Blue is Good, Orange is Bad (Very, very bad)

And, just because some places have had plentiful rain overall does not mean the last 30 days hasn't been brutally dry. Here's the rainfall map for the last 30 days:

30-Day Rainfall As A Percentage of Normal

As you can see on the 30-day map, almost all of us are really short of rain over the last 30 days. This isn't good with the winter wildfire season approaching.

Autumn continues to produce fairly dull colors, but a couple of the red oak trees are really, really trying to color up. The leaves are sort of a splotchy red, but that's better than no red at all.

I haven't had time to look at it yet, but the Botanical Interests' 2018 seed catalog arrived in the mail this week.

If I'm not back on here tonight or tomorrow, Happy Veteran's Day to all who served. Your service to our nation is appreciated.

Dawn

I hope to build a raised bed first thing, move my herbs and friendship garden. I have saved a bunch of seeds to plant like zinnias marigolds borage dill fennel sunflowers and others. I have some cedar fence slats and posts to make the bed. I am going to fill half with composted buffalo manure and top with my soil from here : o

Considering she wants to bulldoze this place I have to get everything now. May try to move some smaller fruit trees too. It has been a rough emotional few weeks and some people make it harder. I will be glad when is over.

Kim! Good luck! Wish we lived nearby so we could help! Darn! That is frustrating! Both that time is of the essence and that we're all not closer. I DO hope she's not going to be bulldozing soon.

I saw Garry today for the first time since August 8, 2014 (when we met after so many years) in clothes other than his jeans and do-rag! Wow. That's not going to happen very often! And so I put on a dress and we went like that to our big church dinner. We got teased SO badly--especially him! The ladies LOVED it. (He had on his military uniform (Army) and looked so handsome. He'd worn it for the special program our granddaughter's school in Claremore put on for the veterans.) Fun time, both that and the dinner.

Okay, Amy, I'll plant garlic Monday, too. I was going to do it tomorrow, but I hear rain--and I still have to move the leaves, Garry accidentally put in that bed, and don't want to move wet leaves. Second time this week--just enough to get the leaves too wet.

I decided I better get a cat post built or bought for the kitttens, and maybe get them an inside tree--there is only one window with a good view for them-- the window in the door into the garage from the deck. I've never had one for a cat before, but it's really the only window that would be fun for them to look out of. Both sets of French doors have double-paned glass with little itty bitty blinds between the panes (which I find to be a "pain"), and though I use that door all the time March-til about now, I don't use it in the winter. And by the time winter's over maybe they'll be bonded enough to let them out. . . . although I can picture it now--worrying sick because they took off and God only knowing when they'll show up. Yikes. We had it SO made with Daff.

Yeah, the dog-shampooer would be a non-starter for Titan, too. Not only doesn't he like motors, he hates water!

Dawn, not only cardboard, but a wadded up ball of paper!

Glad you got more shelves for flats, Amy! Yay! I'm thinking the place to put my winter sow stuff is at the end of our deck where the roof doesn't cover it and kind of "barricade" them with the fabric soil-filled pots. What do you think? Think that's a good place? That should be out of the way of the majority of critters and wind.

And with me just saying to you, Dawn, that I had learned my lesson regarding labeling seedlings, I was going to go out and just plant the 4 different varieties of garlic. . . labels never even entered my mind! Until you brought it up, Amy! I'm an idiot. lol

Kittens are fun! Cats are wonderful. I enjoy all stages of the feline. I cannot imagine not having a cat in my life.

Y'all, I had a couple varieties of garlic--no idea what--but I just pushed them in the pallet, covered with dirt and then put chicken wire on top. I love garlic, but can't tell a huge difference in cooking yet. Someday, I'll get a better and more distinguishing palate for it. I'll enjoy y'all's many varieties and such for now.

I saw your pic on fb, Nancy. You and Gary look very nice.

Kim, I'm glad you're taking your herbs with you!

I had another dog incident in my neighborhood yesterday. I'm just so...bothered by it, but I don't really know what to do. I didn't realize I had been "injured" until I got in the bath last night and my legs were scratched, bloody, and bruised.

Let me explain it here and y'all tell me your true opinions, so I can decide what to do in the future. And it won't hurt my feelings either way...I just need to know.

So, our dog, Kane, was attacked about 3 years ago while we were walking. He was on a leash. A neighbor's dog kept coming up behind him and pulling fur out of his behind and legs. This happened on a couple of walks and then finally he bit into Kane's leg hard and caused a pretty nasty injury. Brody (the dog) wouldn't let it go at that point and Kane was beside himself, being on a leash and unable to defend himself. Finally, I picked up Kane and threw him into a trash can that was next to the street--just to get Brody away from him. Brody's owner was then able to take control of him and took him indoors. Since that time, Kane is not friendly towards dogs that come up to him on our walks. He gets anxious and want to fight everyone who sniffs him from behind. However, he is on a leash. People out here think their dogs are obedient, but they are not. Maybe they are nice dogs, but my dog does not want your dog sniffing him while he's on a leash. You call your dog, but your dog does not obey you. I get it. My dog doesn't obey me either which is why they both are kept in a dog yard or a leash when walking. Who is in the right or wrong here? I'm on the street with my dogs. Not on anyone's property. Their dogs come up to us in the street and start sniffing and their owners have no control over them apparently, as they don't listen and come when called. That's even IF the owner is out. Should we just stop giving Kane a walk everyday? Is it our fault that Kane can't settle down when a dog comes up to him? OR should they leash their dogs if they are outside of a fenced yard? I realize that part of it is our fault because Kane loses his mind, but that is why we leash him and walk him off of other people's property. It just doesn't seem right that he can't go on walks any longer. But I can't keep getting knocked to the ground in these incidents and scratched and bruised.

Honestly, I probably won't think too much about the future garden until January. I have a lot of things to do for the remainder of the year. I can anticipate being VERY excited about seed starting. But I have so many fun things to do over the next few weeks first. I love holiday season. I love all the seasons.

My plan was to do garden clean up tomorrow, but we have been tasked with decorating my father and mother in laws' graves, so we are driving to Arkansas City to do that instead. And on the way, Tom found a giant cast iron cauldron like my great, great grandmothers. So, we are buying it. It won't be a wasted day, but I really wanted to be home. I'm hoping Monday will be decent outdoors. I was able to pick up a few bags of leaves to use as mulch. People in my life think I'm so weird--driving around to pick up their trash...leaves and wine bottles and such.

I'm trying to get excited about the cauldron, but I really want the one that has been in my family forever. I wish I knew the history of the cauldron we are buying-that is important to me.

And what's the deal with the dumbA who shut down schools and such with a police chase? I was outside with a group of kids when I got the call from Moore Public. Good grief. I didn't know what was going on and just tried to get the kids indoors quickly. The entire situation was ridiculous.

Love ya, HJ, and will try to figure out a response about the dog dilemma tomorrow, because it is. Life's crazy. xoxo

Wow. I've been pondering winter sow containers some more today. I have 8 mid-size durable clear plastic storage "tubs," all at roughly 14x10 inches and all from 7-10 inches high. I'll buy clear garbage bags to put them in. And I have a couple three large clear totes, too, those won't even need anything to prop the plastic up; just have to decide whether to put soil directly in the tubs and section off seeds, or plant in nursery pots inside the tubs. What do you think?

I'm trying to save the seed cart for tomatoes, peppers, and annual herbs and flowers. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

And that's all the thinking I'm going to do about it all for a while!

Meanwhile, was thinking about loose dogs vs ones on leashes. Sure, HJ, you are in the right with leashed dog vs loose dogs, but that doesn't solve the problem. It's an ever present problem for all people out walking their dogs at some point or another; I am convinced there is not a solution. Sigh.

Brrr. Says 55 outside, but it's a chilly breezy 55. I'm going to cancel any plans we may have in the next couple weeks on any day the wind is not blowing. GOT to get these leaves raked/mowed/blown off the yard; they're falling fast and furious; can't see the lawn now, just leaves.

I have had the best winter sowing success with containers that have enough soil to not dry out. Honestly milk jugs are ideal, but even they must be out of OK wind. Keep in mind, on the national sites, you may have people with snow cover all winter. They can "set it and forget it". Some have enough winter rain not to have to worry about drying out. That is iffy for us and hot spring days can heat things up too much. I think solo cups in a tub might just be too small, but containers slightly wider should work. I shy away from one big flat of plants, like the bottom of the tubs would be, but I can't give you a good reason other than personal preference. Well, I think it would be easier to remove individual pots, and you wouldn't have to worry about watering causing seeds to float out of their area. Are you putting holes in the tubs for drainage or will they be out of the weather with controlled watering? I like to "bottom water" things, and I would set my milk jugs in a tub of water and let them soak it up from the bottom. So you could put an inch of water in your tub (drain hole an inch to inch and a half up the side instead of in the bottom), or set your tub in a bigger tub to water. Or you sprinkle from the top. Just more considerations to mess with your mind ;) gotta go

Here was what I was envisioning, Amy, but yes, I think the 6" nursery posts will go inside them. I kind of agree about having seed getting scattered around. And yes, would be harder to get the little buggers out, for sure. I am LAZY, which is why I'm thinking of this. Can't one be lazy and still winter sow? Please? Hmmm, I like your idea of bottom watering. And I also was leery of some of the containers I saw online, because of the shallowness of soil in them. I have a few empty and clean gallon-sized plastic white vinegar bottles. I was saving those for the past several months--why, I didn't know. Now I do.

At any rate, haven't decided completely, but maybe.

http://www.fleamarketgardening.org/2013/01/06/winter-sowing-wizards/

Nancy, I'll fill you in on a few things that worked for me last winter.

Milk jugs really are the best, or similar ones. (I buy the gallon jugs of white vinegar for cleaning and laundry, and those are great too.) I mainly use half gallons of milk, and I could do 2 or 3 tomato or pepper seeds in each one. I did pot them up to Solo cups when they were a few inches tall, but some stayed until they were poking out the tops, and grew fine. People in town would talk about walking through their neighborhoods the night before recycling is picked up, checking the bins for suitable containers. I don't think Wagoner has curbside recycling, but you might check drop off centers if you have them, or maybe some of us can save them for you. Last winter a friend saved gallon jugs for me, and I traded her tomato plants for her garden.

Some people last year bought dedicated clear tubs with lids to use, and drilled holes in the top and bottom with an electric drill. Then they used nursery cups, or more commonly, Solo cups with holes in the bottoms, set right on the bottom of the tub. No drainage trouble that way. They were very pleased.

I also used disposable tinfoil pans with holes punched in the bottoms, for bedding flowers, and they worked well too. I used the deep roasting pans that came with clear plastic tops, punched holes in the tops too, then divided them into 12-16 squares when I seeded them. When I was ready to plant, I just scooped up a handful of plant and soil and transferred them to the ground. Some online said they used a large kitchen serving spoon to do it too. You could use the pans without lids and put them in the plastic containers too.

Stringer's Nursery here in Tulsa has a 'freebie bin' in their parking lot, where they toss empty nursery pots that they don't need anymore. Anyone can dig through there and take what they need, and they always have lots of 2 or 3 inch square seedling pots. They also have B1G1 free seed packs right now (BC and Botanical Interests), AND they are the nicest, most wonderfully weird and helpful people ever. You can meet the resident chickens, too. I'm always going in there with a piece of a plant or a dead bug looking for help, and I get it.

I think winter sowing is best for us lazy gardeners, actually. I didn't have to water my containers once last winter, but I did start with a bit wetter mix than was suggested. I started seeding containers in early February, planted out end of March. I like that we can do a few containers whenever there's a nice enough day to do it, then set them out and forget about them for awhile.

Thanks, Amy and Rebecca! I have to tell you honestly, I'd already decided I was too lazy to try and collect 100 milk jugs. I am almost beyond being able to ask folks to help me out. A failing of mine. And I hate shopping SO much that I can't even envision visiting more than one thrift shop to check it out. We did visit one a few days ago, no mini blinds, NOTHING that could work as a winter sow container. Now wouldn't a person think that someone who is retired has time to do that? LOL, Not me! Do I have time to check on 200 winter sow containers? NO. (which is about how many it would take. Well I DO, but am I willing to do it? NO.) As soon as I thought of good-sized totes with clear covers, I kind of was set on my course. What I decided to do is order square seedling pots, situate them in the clear storage bins with clear covers. Label each little seedling pot. Set the seedling pots into the clear storage bins, surround the bins with the already filled fabric pots on the mostly sunny corner of the deck. When we have nice days, pop off the bin covers. To me, time is money. Crazy. You have NO idea how lazy I AM! LOL. The ONLY drawback for me, is that the clear totes are sturdier, and I Pray they will provide enough warm insulation. Guess I'll find out. I can get zillions of seedling pots for next to nothing online SO, I have set my course, wish me luck. I will, of course, let you know how the clear storage bins with clear covers, nursery pots inside, work out.

Nancy I do not think they need any insulation. Part of the process is they freeze and then germinate naturally when it warms up. Sun and water is all that is necessary. I have done this several times. Honestly my favorite is hunk o seedlings. It is nice not to baby every single seedling. With my greenhouse last year I did not do any winter sowing.

I have access to 100's of water jugs because we, the whole town including the school, do not drink the water. I also used the box they came in to keep them from blowing away.

H/J, regarding the dog issue. I would take photos and document your injuries. If it is always the same dog, you can report him. But I get the impression it's multiple dogs. So that is a leash law issue. If you don't have a leash law, you could try to get one implemented. Do you carry pepper spray? If a dog is knocking you down, I think that is justification to use it. Maybe the vet knows something that would work better on dogs. It IS a shame to punish a dog because his human is stupid, but you have to protect yourself.

Nancy, you're overthinking it. It's easier than that. Use the plastic tubs, they'll be fine, just drill holes in the top and bottom. You don't need to order nursery pots. I used plastic yogurt cups (one plant in a single serve, 3 in a large container), cottage cheese and sour cream cups with holes in the bottoms. Worked fine. The ziploc bags worked too, you just have to be careful once the plants are up that you don't let the bags collapse onto the seedlings. But the jugs are truly set and forget, unless we are really really dry. Try it with your vinegar jugs and compare it to the bins. You really don't need to spend a lot of money on supplies to make the technique work. It's a very cheap way to start seeds. You can get creative and use what you already have or may be throwing out. The main thing you need to spend on is good potting mix, and buy it now because it may be hard to find later. Oh, and a regular Sharpie may fade over the winter. I use an industrial Sharpie I got from Amazon. No fading in weather, lasted all season (unless the squirrels got hold of them).

You can get industrial sharpies at lowes. I have found them at other places, but not as easily. I buy them when ever I see them, because I misplace them a lot and use them to write on freezer bags and canning jar lids.

I think I have enough potting mix--of course I don't. I never have enough potting mix. Thx for the reminder. Better get some more. Thanks for the assistance, you guys! Yes, I will be able to try it both ways, you're right.

We got a lot of leaves gathered today, and half of them mulched. It was a great day for working. Cool, but not too windy. We are going to have more than enough LEAVES. I told GDW today that we should leave the ones in the back 40 for the forest floor. It goes fast with both of us working, and tomorrow should be another good day for getting things done in the yard.

Two visitors to my garden. Young 4 pt bucks. They did not think my efforts were very scary. My Sophie did not do anything. Hmph

Looks like that fat little buck is having a munching good time! Tch tch on Sophie!

Kim, I cannot believe she wants to bulldoze the place! I was hoping maybe you could come back in Spring 2018 and dig up and transplant some of your favorite reseeding plants (like the borage, which you know will reseed all over) to move to your new place. I guess after the bulldozing is over, that's not likely to happen, is it? I am sorry for the extra stress. You've done nothing to deserve being treated like that.

Nancy, I always thought I'd like doors with the blinds in between the panes of glass, so thanks for the comment on them. Now maybe I don't feel so bad that we didn't buy those in the first place when we built this place.

I saw the photo of you and Garry on FB and y'all looked simply smashing, but I admit that I said to myself "who is that man?" lol. I knew it was him, but I didn't recognize him all dressed up. Thank you, Garry, for your service to our nation.

I agree about cats and crumpled up paper....and, oh yes, brown paper bags! A cat in a brown paper bag is able to entertain itself endlessly.

Jennifer, I am sorry about the dog issue. We have had similar issues here because there are absolutely no leash laws out here in the unincorporated parts of our county, and not likely to ever be any. If the same dog keeps coming after us repeatedly, we will talk to the owners. Sometimes this doesn't help at all, but it can help if you point out that now that the discussion has occurred, you want them to know that you will escalate the next discussion to the appropriate legal authority if you have to. You can be nice but firm when you tell them that you shouldn't have to fight off their dog when all you and your dog want to do is to go for a simple walk on a public roadway or public sidewalk. Even without a leash law, private action via an attorney can be taken if you or Kane are injured in any way. This may sound harsh, but your primary objective should be to keep the two of you safe and unstressed....your primary objective is not to be nice to someone who is a negligent dog owner. If they get mad, let them get mad. Better for them to be mad than for you or Kane to be injured or killed.

I agree with Amy that you document each encounter. Keep a written log, and take photos of any injuries or of a menacing dog advancing towards you.

I have these sorts of issues a lot and my dogs are trained to ignore the advancing dog and keep walking, or to sit if commanded to do so. It has taken us a very long time to get to this point with Jet and Jersey, but as they've aged, they've learned to trust my judgement in these cases. It may be harder for you with Kane since the prior attack surely is engraved on his memory, and you really cannot erase that memory or the fear and anxiety it causes him. It makes Jersey, who is a mild, meek, well-mannered female, so nervous if she has to sit and let a strange dog approach her. She shakes like a leaf, and I am proud of her for trusting me enough that she listens to me in those cases. Having a dog that refuses to engage with their dog can de-escalate the situation because often these dogs simply seek to engage you and your dogs and they will go away if you refuse to engage with them. (Do not make eye contact---that is the sort of engagement they seek.) We always freeze in place if we can and avoid direct eye contact. I like to always wear sunglasses so they cannot tell if I am looking directly at them. If they are coming from behind us or beside us, we will try to cross the road. With any luck at all, a car or truck will come up the road and scare them back into their yard. If they are coming straight at us from in front of us on the road, if I have a rock in my pocket (I usually have 2 or 3, each about the size of a banty hen egg), I may yell at the dog to "Go Home!" and toss a rock at its feet if it keeps coming, but I still avoid eye contact (which a dog will perceive as engagement and possibly a threat). I carry pepper spray and I know how to use it, but it is hard to use it effectively on windy days so it is not necessarily as handy as one thinks. There is a foam form of pepper spray that is pretty good about sticking to the animal or person you spray it on, and it is less likely to blow back onto you and your dog. Some of my neighbors carry a baseball bat, walking stick/staff or 4' metal fence post when they walk---generally because either they or their dogs have been attacked before and they have no intention of letting it happen again. I don't carry anything like that 99% of the time, but there's been times when I've wished I had one. There's so many deadfall tree limbs along the fencelines that I feel like I probably can grab one to fend off an aggressive dog if needed (and I have done that in the past, when attacked by a pack of 6 or 8 dogs all belonging to one person).

If you buy an airhorn and carry it with you, sounding the airhorn when the dog gets close to you (but not yet close enough to bite you out of fear) often will make any dog turn and run for the hills. For Kane's sake, though, you need to sound it near him at home several times so he can get used to it so it doesn't send him into a panic. I wouldn't want you do to anything that causes him further distress.

I would hate for y'all to give up walking when you're not doing anything wrong. Sometimes if a particular dog is aggressive day in and day out, I stop walking or change my route for just a couple of weeks so it can (hopefully) forget about us and find something new to do. Sometimes this works. Sometimes it doesn't.

I have no real answers for you because I have found that what works with one dog will not work with another. I mainly focus on handling my dog and just hope that the approaching dog will be friendly or will go home if commanded to, or whatever. For all the dog encounters we've had (sometimes at least one a week, sometimes more than one per day), we've rarely been injured, but often been frightened.

Now that the deer hunting regular gun season is about to open, we'll skip walking for the rest of November. Even if I wear red and put a red coat or bandana on our dogs, it is too nerve-wracking to be out there walking and to hear nearby gunshots. Jersey is the exact color of a deer, so I worry that a careless hunter might mistake her for a deer and shoot her. I wear red when outdoors every single day of the deer gun season. We don't allow hunting on our land, but some of our neighbors do, and some people fire their guns rather carelessly in the direction of any movement they see, even from a great distance. I'd rather not be shot. I had a bullet come whistling by my head once while I was on our own property (and it wasn't even hunting season) and I never want to experience that again. Should the dogs and I have to hide indoors during hunting season? Of course not, but sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry. Should you and Kane have to give up walking? No of course not, but taking a brief break might break the cycle of the other dog approaching you. It would be better if the dog owner or owners would be responsible, but I know that many from experience that not all dog owners are responsible.

One of our neighbors has taught his dogs to stay on their land. They sometimes come out through the gate when he is at work and I tell them to get back in their yard....and they do....and they run for the house, which must be at least 200 yards from the road. See, they know they aren't supposed to be out, so when I catch them out and scold them, they run for home because they know right from wrong. Sadly, it doesn't sound like your neighborhood dogs have that sense of where they should and should not be. They have not been taught boundaries. That is unfortunate, but it is not your fault. Good luck with this situation. I hate it. At least if you live in a town with a leash law, all it takes is a call to 9-1-1 and a cop comes and cites the family for having a dog roaming at will. We lack that protection out in the unincorporated areas.

We have a treadmill. If I could teach the dogs to walk on it (which never will happen as they hate it), I'd walk them on the treadmill indoors daily. For us though, being outdoors if part of what we like about walking. I'm getting more defiant as I age and am less likely to return home to avoid a dog, and more likely to say something to the owner. They are the problem, I'm not.

ooops. Multiple wildfires breaking out. I need to get off the computer in case they page us out. These sound far enough from us, but if there's enough of them, and because homes are threatened, we may get paged......

Dawn

Dawn I have not discussed the stress of this whole thing but it has been heart breaking to me and literally had made me very ill this year. I believe my new job is a prayer answered. It does not completely do away with all emotional stress in this situation. I am not only losing many seeds and yeasts of work but I fear for my wildlife and bees. She wants to kill it all. And plant grass.

I really can't talk much about it yet because I do get sick and I can not change it. so I am really trying to focus on a new dream a new year a new hope and vision.

Now those bucks are not welcome. Glad they are too small to kill. Of course of you could murder a chaparral for fun no telling what you could do.

Heartbreaking, indeed, Kim. Best to you. How far away is the new place from here? (BTW, did you notice Dawn began a new thread?)

Kim, I have a ton of extra seeds if you'd like them to help you get back on your feet at the new place.

What a GREAT idea, Rebecca!!!! We ALL do, Kim!! Me, too, bunches and bunches--you'll LOVE the flower ones--and herbs, I'll save a bunch from winter sowing and the grow cart! After I couldn't give away produce 2 years ago here in Wagoner, I learned EVERYONE wanted my seedlings. So then I KNEW I was meant to grow, not produce, but seedlings. Thank you, Rebecca!!!

Y'all are sweet. That is why I hang out here so much. I thought I could take large scoops of soul from the borage herb bed and hope to get some of the good stuff. Irises are easy but there is so much more that has already died back. I may just dig the whole section 25x25 area where I have just put all my spring fling goodies and stuff from other friends. That way I will get most of the bulbs/tubers. Trees are on their own.

I may not have a huge planting area at my new place but I have a plan to plant some stuff at a friends place and then later when I buy my own place I will transplant it there. It will all work out.

Exactly what I have been focusing on. What's in my big huge windshield not my rear view.

My son's choice and I are polar opposite and no one in the family has warmed up to her in a year. I try really hard and pray allot. When you want to kill my road runner who brings me joy just for the sake of killing I don't play. I told my son I do not want them to come help me again for any reason. I will do it all myself or die trying lol. The amount of stress dealing with that took 3 days to recover. Not to mention my bees. Silly foolish ways. I need to Google how to sneak a beehive. Lol

I was up at 2 writing my goals dreams visions. There is something about putting it on paper which I have never done. I actually woke up ready to start.

Here s/he is watching over me and my camper to make sure no more snakes come near me.

Kim, I love your roadrunner. I wish you could take it with you. I am never on board for killing wildlife just for the sake of killing. Obviously we shoot and kill venomous snakes around our house and garden because of the risk they present to our humans and animals, but they still are free to roam about 12 of our 14.4 acres with impunity so I feel like that is a good trade-off. We also will shoot and kill predator animals if they insist upon preying on our pets or poultry, but generally we will try to chase off a bobcat or coyote numerous times without shooting it first. If it will just go away and leave us and our animals alone, we leave it alone. Sadly, some predators just keep coming back and coming back and we'll shoot them to protect our animals.

Your son is gonna choose whoever he is gonna choose. He has to make his own way in this world and learn his own lessons. Perhaps their relationship won't last and he'll learn from it. Perhaps she is his forever love. Who knows? I hate that it causes you such pain and frustration. Prayer helps. My prayer for you is that you find peace with this situation that you cannot change. Maybe she's the future mother of your your future grandchildren. Take a deep breath and know that God is watching over you and yours.

Life is beautiful and I know you're gonna be just fine.

Dawn

Okay. . . I've got tears in my eyes. I SO empathize. Wish I could have had you all 15 years ago; wish we could all be over there digging up plants and visiting. We'd be a scary bunch!

We would be scary, frantically digging and searching for all my earth goodies.