David Underwood:

I realize it's just a base molding, but that appears to be a painted plywood end. On a job like yours, it wouldn't be unexpected to have that end mitered and returned so the layers of plywood wouldn't be exposed. I doesn't appear to have even been sanded before painting.

If these guys are incapable of filler fixing built in look, maybe this is a solution.

Btw, Pitiful they have not fixed this yet.

Cut fillers off, scribe all unfinished edges.

They may be able to keep the tall panels on left & pop off the filler on front then scribe it down, too.

Then once these guys are out, get a custom cabinet guy to install a hinge filler to open space and store brooms.

Or

If probably not enough space, but IF it's enough space maybe this concept. It will only be able to pull out to the door frame.

Trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

Whoever the client gave the check to for the cabinets; it is the receiver of the money responsibility to fix it.

If the GC got the check, & the cabinet company or the subs fail; it falls back on to the GC to fix it, get the sub to fix it, or hire a new sub to fix it.

The client paid a GC to manage this, so they should not have to have to go back & forth.

If the cabinet company got the check direct from client, then it is the cabinet company's responsibility to fix this.

Good evening everyone,

I have an update of designs to share. The GC spoke with the cabinet company and the below are two prospective changes. There's a third that they didn't send that I'll need to follow up on tomorrow. One concern I have with the top is proper ventilation as the fridge specs call for at least a 1/2" space on the sides of the fridge. How useful do you all feel a 12" countertop would be to the right of the fridge?

-David

I like the second solution because your fridge will definitely open properly (I am worried you will still have problems with the first "solution"). And I think a separate 12" countertop could be used in various ways: (1) a mail drop site (our mail tends to take over our countertop so a designated separate area could be great); (2) a separate coffee area (assuming there will be an electrical outlet there); (3) a misc place to put things you ordinarily have on your countertop (a fruit bowl, etc.).

That's great news their starting to offer you solutions finally. I choose the bigger fillers out of the 2 plans just posted. The 12" space would not be that useful, unless you have a useful idea for it.

There are pull-out pantry things that will fit in 12" of space.

No to a 12" countertop to the right of the fridge. Opt for a slim pantry instead.

Thanks for the thoughts, I greatly appreciate it. Here's my attempt at representing those with Photoshop edits to give an idea.

Going with a 24" on the right would decrease down the cabinets quite a bit and make them look small by the stove so I think that is out.

12" to the right

5" filler to the right

24" to the right

12" to the right with counters to left and right of range shortened by 4.5" -- not sure what sort of cabinets would go in the space at that point, will need them to provide that one, it is the one that was missed.

With the 5" filler, you still might bump into the wall with your refrigerator door. Can you move the refrigerator over 5" and test out whether the door would still hit the wall? I also like the 12" pull out, pantry option in the photo that artistsharonva provided in her suggestion. If you go with a 12" countertop then maybe you could put a coffee maker there.

For me, the 5" filler would be my 1st choice, if I was sure the refrigerator door would not hit the wall. My 2nd choice would be the 12" pull out pantry because it seems like a better use of space than a 12" countertop and I think it would look better than a 12" countertop.

Imo,

the 12" ct, is least liked. Looks odd.

The 24" encroaches too far into countertop work area around stove.

A 18" pantry is a common size in cabinets. Since this is a redo, ask them to layout with 18" pantry or smallest pantry they have. Have food closer to each other and talls look good with talls in a corner.

The wide fillers look good, just make sure fridge opens to your liking.

Pull fridge out, put against a wall open to your liking, measure and then decide if that works to your wants

The functional pullout would be great IF your GC could make matching stacked doors are drawer fronts on their sides or something semi custom to match existing. A skilled cabinet maker/ installer could do it.

Great job with that photoshop.

Sorry, but all of these options are not great. I still think a different fridge is the best option. Another option would be to widen the doorway to the right so the handles don't hit. Overall, it is just bad design to have the fridge opening in a doorway like that, even if it opens fully, but these are your best options. I know you want the cabinet people to fix your issues, but they can't.

Of the two options, I like number one, unless you go with a 24" deep pantry cabinet to the right. I'd give you a lot of good storage and you'd be sure your fridge opened all the way. Is there any way to test how the fridge would open in the first drawing before you pull the trigger?

To provide an update, our GC got an additional design which I wanted to share.

I also used Photoshop and took a current photo and added cabinet hardware and then made a mockup of this design using Photoshop.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Note that the cabinets to the right of the fridge are not full depth - it appears there would be unused space behind them. From what I can tell now that I've had the experience with the cabinet company they simply buy prefab units and have them in certain sizes. They portray to you that they are a custom cabinet company but they are not. This has left us very frustrated. Also, in their render, I'm not sure what that large gap between the fridge and countertop is and I hope they don't plan on just using filler there, I don't think that will look good at all.

Ok, here are the images from the cabinet company as well as my Photoshop renders.

Thanks for the feedback.

What brand of cheepchinesecrapola did he put in your house? I would NOT be happy about the misrepresentation of $1.98 cabinets as custom or semi custom or American made.

Putting 3 wall cabinets there is just silly. If they don’t have a narrow pantry in the line, they can build one and just use the doors for the fronts. Although that is a kludge with crapola too.

I would not be happy with that solution. I would want a refund and get that crapola out of my house. Then go buy something better, American made, and with a better design.

If he misrepresented the product, that is fraud. The skills of the design person were certainly misrepresented. And the skills of your installer are are not great either.

Get your money back and make these hacks go away.

It's progress. It's better than the original in regards to the fridge opening.

Sophie, I love you girlfriend, but sometimes you gotta put the philosophy away and concentrate on cost effectively solving the problems at hand. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, ain't cuttin' it here. If you've got a better solution than that shown, we're waiting to see it.

Anything done here will be a kludge. The whole backbwall either gets redesigned at his expense. Or he refunds you and you go somewhere else. Fraud in the picture changes things considerably. That ain’t get a smaller refrigerator solution anymore. That is borderline criminal.

Yeah, that’s a take no prisoners attitude. Dude needs to learn that he isn’t qualified to do what he thought, and can’t lie to customers about substantially important things. Like the nature of the cabinets. Crush his bones into dust and hear the lamentation of his women.

Sorry but all the proposed solutions are still not a good fix. You end up with an asymmetrical situation in the main run and wonky fridge cab. The fridge cab is just made wrong in the first place. Why were the upper fridge cab doors not full overlay like the rest of the kitchen? These counter-deep french door fridges are meant to be mid-run or next to a door opening. If you put them next to the wall they won't open all the way. At this point, since they didn't or can't build the cabs to conform with the fridge specs, you can live with it as is or look for a fridge with specs to match the existing cabs, or relocate the fridge. Maybe if you show pics of the entire kitchen we can help with an alternative location.

Goodness, what a cabinet kerfluffle this is. In addition to what's already been said, to further substantiate that this latest layout is bad, the left door of the 24" cabinet to the right of the range hood will bump the hood every single time you open it unless you're careful. It's just awkward. You'll never be able to just reach up and get a spice, oil, whatever out of that cabinet while you are cooking without taking a step to the right then back to the left to continue cooking. So you'll be stuck storing tupperware and the like in that upper cabinet between the hood and refrigerator.

This may have been addressed somewhere above (I admit I did not read every single comment) can you widen the the doorway that’s near the refrigerator? Then everything can stay as is.

I think a [pull out pantry cabinet[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/white-park-road-transitional-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~21401126) would make sense there, like artistsharonva suggested. That way you would get the full use of the space and it would make it easier to access things stored there. I also think it would look better than the 3 cabinet doors.

Also, I think the hanging cabinets on the left side of the stove would look better with 2 wider doors, instead of 3 narrow doors. The overall cabinet width would stay the same. I think it would look more symmetrical, a hanging cabinet with 2 doors on the left and a hanging cabinet with 2 doors on the right.

The main thing is to get it fixed so it looks the way you want it. If the current cabinet company can't fix it the way you want it then I would get a different cabinet maker that could. You've spent a lot of time and money on this project. Why end up with something you aren't happy with?

Honestly, I'd just ask for a narrow broom closet. Useful. If it has to be wider, then agree with a pull-out pantry cabinet. So sorry you're having to co-engineer this! I wouldn't let symmetry concerns get in the way of making everything work, though. (That is, even the three-cupboard thing is better than nothing. A tray base, maybe, and a couple with pull-outs to repay your inconvenience?)

Can you switch the fridge to the other side of the door? and put those cabs where the fridge is now?

Depending on the installer's skills, if you want a tall pullout on the right, the door faces can be combined on front to make a matching 12" pullout. Here is a how to link. http://www.hgtv.com/design/rooms/kitchens/how-to-build-a-vertical-pull-out-cabinet

Or they can combine them to make a broom closet with inside shelves above.

Thanks everyone for the great comments and help. I'm going to post some photos below of the full kitchen. I'll also post some close-ups of the cabinets. I found a nasty issue with the two narrow doors which I hadn't seen and will share.

• I agree I do not care for any of their designs after reading the responses.
• I want symmetry and the ideas they've presented destroys that approach
• Great catch on the cabinet door hitting the range hood, I hadn't noticed it would do that
• We cannot do much with the doorway you see by the fridge since it is a pocket door. You'll see in the photos.
• I also agree larger hanging cabinets may be better than the 2 and 1 narrow there now but this cabinet company apparently is limited to preset sizes. I feel I was very misled regarding their abilities.

What gets my goat is the contractor tell us after we have everything in and having issues that he typically uses someone else even though these are the people he sent us to. Since he told us he used a custom cabinet maker we thought these were custom cabinet folks. At this point I feel they don't have the capability to fix it. I feel like they are just waiting on me for solutions and this isn't what I do every day, and that is what frustrates me the most.

OK, now for the photos:

Looking from the fridge to the other side. Notice the builder didn't center the window correctly so the cabinets had to be different sizes on the left and right of the window. In the layout the cabinet people gave the cabinets went above the window trim. After they installed them they ran the crown into the window trim. Very frustrating. Contractor still has to come back to put the vent cover on under the sink. They also didn't duct the pipe under the sink so all my cabinets are super warm under them instead of the air coming directly out the front it just fill the void under the cabinet first.

Looking from the sink toward the fridge and pantry.

This is the cabinet to the right of the pantry. The outlet was to be behind the cabinet but I assume they relocated it because of the pocket door. That whole wall doesn't exactly match the plan. I've got to discuss that with the GC. The cabinet company suggested we do a half base cabinet here saying we wouldn't have room otherwise.

Another view of the kitchen sink side

The cabinet to the immediate right of the range hood opened.

I found this nice surprise when I opened it. I hadn't used them yet since we weren't sure what we were doing with them. It looks like some kind of circles, perhaps for hinge placement? There are 3 of them on each of those narrow doors. It really shows these cabinet folks have no attention to detail or care about their customers to put something in like this with the edge bubbled like it is.

One of the shelves removed

Photo with shelf removed to see inside

A closeup of the front of a cabinet.


Thanks,

David

wow. there is so much that is wrong here I'm really sorry for you. this is a complete clusterf*&k of the worse degree. the diff size doors by the window, the damaged door by stove, the middle panel gaps on the front of the doors, that ridiculous shallow cabinet by pocket door. I mean, why would a regular size fit if it fits everywhere else? I mean, even if it didn't fit, and I suspect it does, then why wasn't the door way built out a bit to accommodate a normal cabinet depth?

this is all so very shady and shoddy. I would not pay them a dime. In fact, If they don't rip it out and redo it properly, I'd Yelp them to hell, and 'off to court we go' !

( I'd actually threaten them with a lot more but I can't print it here because I'm pretty sure it's illegal in all 50 states)

Looks like they mis-drilled for cup hinges, filled the hole, and painted.

Looks like a Frankenstein of cheepchinesecrapola hackery. But I bet it has buzz words of plywood soft close.

Well now I'm really concerned. If they are indeed from China then I'm concerned about formaldehyde. I went above and beyond to get hardwood floors throughout that were American made to avoid that situation, and with the vent dumping directly under the cabinet there's no telling what is getting spewed out from the heated cabinets. The impression given was that they were made here. I don't know where to go from here but am concerned and feel very misled.

What brand did they tell you that they were? Where is your warranty paperwork that names the supplier? What is the name of the shop that pushed these on you? There is s world of flat pack getting assembled here that people then call “made” in America. Because they prevaricate. Assembled in America just doesn’t have the same marketing appeal.

If these were actual real custom anything, there wouldn’t be a limitation in sizes. There would be a “yes” to a plain skinny broom closet cabinet instead of stacking 3 wall cabinets in top of each other. That is one of the silliest hacks I’ve ever seen. Those might as well be the cheap stock stuff off the shelf at Lowes.

Sophie - I'll have to ask my GC, I unfortunately trusted where he sent us and do not have any information on warranties.

The company is C&A Home Improvement in Greenville, SC - 10 Woodruff Oaks Ln, Greenville, SC 29607.

They do granite and cabinets.

We spent about $15,500 on the cabinets and countertops in the kitchen, master bath, kids bath and some in the laundry and I expected them to last as this is where we plan to be from now on.

After they left they'd messed up several things in all those rooms. The kids backsplash was pieced. Several drawers didn't close in the kitchen. Several doors in the kitchen didn't line up. They drilled the hole in the wrong place for our soap dispenser. The legs for the countertop in the laundry wasn't square. They left one of the countertops off altogether. Areas of the granite weren't caulked properly. They didn't line up the master sinks over the plumbing and as a result the cabinets on top didn't give enough room and had to be removed in the end to even work. Then there's the whole issue with the crown molding hitting the top of the window in the kitchen and the refrigerator not fitting. It took over a week after the contractor alerted them to even come out and address some of the issues and to date we still don't have a workable solution regarding the fridge.

Yup, their website says it all. Ready To Assemble Cabinets. That means stock sized imported from China.

Now read your contract and the description of the cabinets.

15K is very very low for a whole house full of cabinets. Much less stone too. That’s another clue.

I never could find their website. The GC allocated $15k for cabinets and countertops knowing what we wanted. We trusted he knew the cost of things - I've never remodeled or built a house so I have no idea and SC is usually cheaper than other areas of the country. The GC told us to go to C&A when we asked where to go and get the process started. He told us in the process of doing specs on the house that he had a custom cabinet person. Another person who had a house built by him that we go to church with told us about the great quality cabinets that they made. Nothing led me to believe these were any different. None of it sounded like Chinese stuff. We just went where we thought we had to go to meet that price he gave and stay in budget. They gave the impression it was custom stuff and went through it all with the designer giving that impression. All the quotes were sent to the GC and he paid them, and he never mentioned using anyone else. We even had issues with initial quotes with C&A where prices were over the budget and when the GC emailed us he didn't suggest 'hey, try this guy I always use him' which is very frustrating. With the way they have the air dumping out it just feels unsafe now that I know this, plus all the other problems we are having.

Doing some Google searching I found this link to some import info:

https://panjiva.com/C-A-Home-Improvement-Inc/1822109

Looks like the cabinets are made by these folks:

http://www.xinyuandawood.com/en/about.asp

http://www.xydcupboard.com/

I'm beyond the third level of frustrated now.

I'm sorry to say but nothing about them looks like custom cabinets. It looks like what I'd expect for HD or Lowes. Custom means they can do any size you want. Even to 1/16th of an inch.

And your kitchen is about the size my condo kitchen was and 7 years ago in the middle of the recession, I paid about $15,000 for my custom cherry kitchen cabinets. My granite, bathroom vanities, bathroom granite, etc were all extra.

I hope you didn't finish paying and if you didn't, I'd insist that the GC pull everything out. Then I'd probably go to Ikea and get a much better quality kitchen/bath, etc for less than you paid.

cpartist - unfortunately the day the counters were placed in the GC paid them in full, even before they'd resolved issues we had or had the other counter in place.

This for example is the render of what the window area would look like. Notice the crown doesn't hit the window in the render.

and here is the actual

David,,the GC knew about these issues and still paid them? this guy is on top of his game isn't he? smh. I wonder how much money he pocketed off of these cheapo cabinets? did you specifically tell him you wanted american made, without those chemicals used in china? you need to sit down with him and your contract, hand him the list of everything that is FUBAR, and tell him to make it right.

and someone failed math.

You might want to also discuss your options with an attorney before you meet with the GC. Then if the attorney says you have some legal options that might give you some leverage when talking to the GC. I would write down what the attorney tells you so you can read some of it word-for-word to the GC. That will indicate you are serious about your legal options and not just making an idle threat.

This whole situation must be so frustrating. Follow the $ to find the responsible party.

Is this what happen?

Client /homeowner hires GC to do kitchen

then GC suggests a cabinet/ countertop place.

Client pays GC

GC pays cabinet/countertop place.

Who installed the countertop/ cabinet place or GC?

If the cabinet/ countertop placed failed it falls back on the GC to fix it with that cabinet company or take a loss & fix it to the client who hired & paid GC.

The GC is suppose to manage their subs. If a sub fails, it falls back on GC.

The GC should of inspect the sub installed work with client before releasing full payment.

At least in theory this would of been the timeline. Unfortunately, the cabinet company got paid pre-maturely before the job was finished to satisfaction. I think that falls back on GC.

Hopefully a Pro will chime in & explain more on the way it is suppose to work, so you can find a solution.

I am not trying to start the blame game. Just trying to help figure out who needs to step up & fix this once for all.

There is no excuse for those hole cuts in your cabinets. The crown into windows, bad enough the fridge...good grief! That is absurb & got me so frustrated for you, I had to write this.

Focus to the responsible party client hired. I would have a factual, polite conversation with the responsible party about how to fix it all by a reasonable time. Give them a chance to fix it. Reason with the reasonible. If they are not making any effort to fix it then seek legal counsel. I would not treaten with court or lawyer until it's the last option.

Focus on positive solutions.

I hope some good news happens soon.

A true, similar story.

I know a nice Pro GC who bought cabinets for his client & got his framers to install for the 1st time. The framers ruined the cabinets during install. The framers are great framers but lacked the finishing skills & the experiment failed. The GC was upset with his framers but said it was his fault for assigning the wrong tradesman for the wrong trade. He apologized to the client & said he would fix it.

The GC re-bought the cabinets at his expense & paid out of his pocket a new finisher who specialized in cabinet & crown install. The GC was disappointed he loss profit on the job, but he took the problem & fixed it at his expense. The GC told me learned lesson. (I admire this GC's integrity)

The end install turned out great after the finisher cabinet installer re-did the job. The client & GC inspected the whole job togeather to confirm all was satisfactory.

The client ended up happy with a nice kitchen.

It reminded me of your situation.

So, I was wondering who installed your cabinets?

Here is some solution ideas.

for the window hitting crown. Remove all crown Install a filler to raise height pass window frame then install crown over. Do whole kitchen to match.

Giant cut circles, remove replace, unacceptable

Side of fridge move to left until opens wide filler or 12" wide 12"deep wall stack cabinets

Hope some progress comes your way.

Thanks so much artistsharonva. The installer in this case was C&A, the cabinet and countertop company.

(I think they used a stock window size, rather than the measurements of your actual window frame, for their mock-up. That's on whoever made the measurements initially, whether your GC or the cabinet folks.)

Since the GC paid C&A the GC is C & A's client. Hopefully GC can get them to fix it at C& A's expense since it is their fault. If the GC can't get them to in a timely fashion, the GC needs to fix it another way to your satisfaction at GC's expense. I hope this does not happen to your GC, but it is the risk with sub out work. C&A put you & your GC in a frustrating situation. Ideally, C&A should fix this & it up to the GC to negotiate with C&A. The GC is suppose to manage the project to completion. I would talk to your GC in a polite tone about this & you both come up with a solution. Explain that once the kitchen is done, both you & GC will have a walk through inspection togeather. Once it passes, you'll pay in full for a job well done.

David, did you mention that you have a heating vent that opens up under your cabinets for your sink? If so, maybe an HVAC contractor could solve that problem. At this point, I wouldn't want the initial cabinet business involved at all. They have proved they are incompetent. For that matter, I think your GC is incompetent too.

When people keep saying "don't finish paying them" they don't mean just the cabinet company ... the buck stops with your GC ... don't pay him a penny more until this is resolved. If there is a loan/bank involved, let them know not to pay anything else to the GC without talking to you first. Your GC hired these clowns and it is his problem to fix.

I am not a pro and also have a fridge at the end of my cabinets. There’s a 3” spacer to the right and 9” forward from the spacer to the door opening. Its not ideal but workable and allows the fridge door to open about 120 degrees which is enough to open the drawers and get the shelves out when needed. I read through and know you have a pocket door, but you could make the opening larger and install a larger door and/or shift it over to the left further. I wouldn’t want to redesign cabinets over this one issue, especially when the options aren’t great. Just a thought.

Hi, David Underwood, curious, how did things turn out in the end? Did you get it resolve & how?