http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/5031794/floor-plan-take-one-advice-welcome#21323877

Check out this thread. I think it will really help you.

I think you should keep the prep sink on the island. Your kids might want to learn to cook or help out in the kitchen, soon, and if you have no other sink, the clean-up sink is a long way from the fridge and pantry.

I would recommend moving the prep sink away from the edge of the island, leaving a landing space between the sink and the edge.

Where do you plan to store dishes?

I am open to keeping be prep sink. Where would the best place to keep it? As for dishes, never given any thought on layout and use of cabinets yet. Guess that's why I'm asking!! First time build.

Congrats on your build! Exciting!

I agree with mama goose about keeping the island and moving it over - this creates a 'landing spot' for items from the fridge to go to the left of the sink, with tons of prep space available still on the right.

Storing dishes (areas shown in blue below) - if you were to move the sink+DW over slightly, there should be space to create room for a 24" set of drawers on the left side of the DW (cutlery etc) while in the island facing the DW you could have a wide (30") drawer for cups, plates, etc.

Do you need a spot for a microwave? How about a coffee station? Wall oven?

Since you have long stretches of storage available as drawers in the kitchen plus a decent sized pantry I would wonder if you need to have very extensive upper cabinets in the kitchen? You could have a very open, spacious looking kitchen with few/no uppers. Nice especially since I assume you can't add any more windows (ie along the stove wall).

Damiarain, thanks. Things are moving along super fast!!

Keep the prep sink and move over approximately 18-20" from the edge be enough? What size sink is recommended there?

That window was changed to a triple casement so we could open the end two units. It will be a 21"-42"-21" window. Would like to center the sink on that window, again sink size? Was thinking 30-36" single sink.

Was not planning any uppers on the window wall.

Would like a Microwave drawer. No wall ovens, was planning a 36" gas range. Think 48" would be over kill?

Like the end cabinet on island idea! Again I'm clueless on design and thinking placement out!!

Please think about how you are going to use the space. Are you really going to grab something out of the fridge and then walk 20 feet to get a bowl or a spoon?

This kitchen triangle...goes fridge to sink to stove, is blocked by the island. It is like the Bermuda Triangle. You’ll disappear before you make it to the sink! You need a prep sink on island to make it work. Yes, 48” range is overkill if you don’t really cook much. Really, a 30” would even be fine. You just have a humongous kitchen!

Rebunky- Going to keep prep sink as stated above.

Cindy- are you thinking of keeping all my dishes and silverware close to the fridge section?

There is way too much real estate between all of the necessary functional items in your kitchen. It would be exhausting to try to prepare any meal. Please consult a professional kitchen designer. That space is wonderful. Layout ,not so much.

If you hardly cook, why would you need a 48" range? Personally I'd do an induction cooktop, a wall oven and a steam oven.

No I’m not suggesting that you keep your dishes by your fridge, I’m saying that your kitchen as laid out does not function efficiently. Even though you may not cook often, you still use the kitchen, I’m suggesting that you think about how you use your kitchen to make these decisions.

What do you like/dislike about your current kitchen and how it flows, what does this design solve/enhance?

Figure out what you plan on storing beside the fridge, the stove, the sink and dishwasher, and in the island. Where else might you use those same items?

Do you have a separate table to eat at or will you always eat at the island side by side staring at the stove?

Do you need a large walk in pantry if you don’t cook?

Do you mostly use the microwave, toaster, and coffee machine? Where will they be?

These are some of the question you need ask yourself and discuss with a kitchen designer. Maybe check out a kitchen showroom or two and see what you like about their layouts.

I’m curious about what you may be giving up in other areas of the house to accommodate this large space.

Your building a custom house, customize it to your needs.

Your range wall is definitely large enough to accommodate a 48" range, if your budget can! That will give you 30" & 18" ovens. You do not want to be preheating a cavernous 36" oven to heat something simple like chicken nuggets for your kiddos (I am assuming you use your oven at least a bit?).

We have a remarkably similar layout, and having the sink where it is -- near the stove in the furthest corner from the main sink, works wonderfully. We have a disposal in our prep sink, which is a necessity, in my opinion. I agree you should keep it. We have our dishes near the main sink and dishwasher along that same wall (we have dish drawers in the lower cabinets and our glasses and mugs above). The layout you have is very functional and will work well. It also looks good for resale if you were ever to sell your house.

So keeping the prep sink on the corner of the island closest to the fridge seems like it would give me a good working triangle? The main sink would be for clean up which I like that way dishes are not near prep. What is a good recommended prep sink size? Possibility of adding disposal to the prep sink like Julie B suggested.

cpartist - as stated, thinking 36" - we do cook some, never used a steam over.

Cindy - current kitchen is a rental while building, the Lighting is AWFUL!! the kitchen is small and no counter space. So hard to compare. We do have a separate dinning table in between the kitchen and the great room for the new build. Assuming my boys will likely use the island most of the time. Will definitely need a microwave, thinking drawer. Coffee machine was planning in the pantry as we are not everyday drinkers, just casual.

Pantry would potential put a spare fridge/freezer in there. Could always put in garage too.

Not giving anything up with size of kitchen, plenty of room in the rest of the home.

PrideofOwner - I see your point on the double oven, but a 48" would probably be overkill for our family, would look really nice.

We have never really given any thought to just a cooktop and ovens - would they be more beneficial?

I think this has all the necessary "pieces", but lacks cohesion or vision or any customization to fit your family.

If you entertain with a lot of folks for football - where's the easy to access beverage fridge? kegerator? Fridge drawers for dips / snacks? Breakfast / cereal station? Coffeee / tea bar? Multiple warming drawers for wings and pizza?

Figure out how you USE a kitchen and design accordingly.

I also agree on the range - 36" is an awkward size for a huge oven - and you may be much better served by splitting the functions into cooktop (induction for safety / ease of operation / serving / keeping things warm) and a couple ovens - one steam for reheating of meals.

If splitting the range into a cooktop and ovens, where would the ideal location be for an oven and possible steam oven like Cpartist suggested

Thanks Again

Hi Todd,

Congratulations on your soon to be new home ! What type of style / look do you envision for your kitchen ? For your overall home ? You have a fair mix of traditional, transitional, and modern looking photos in your idea books.

Going through your idea books I couldn't seem to find one for your kitchen...

I would highly recommend that you put together a small collection of kitchen photos that appeal to you. By doing so, you may answer many of the questions you have about the appliances. A large range is going to have a very different look and feel versus a cook-top / range-top with separate ovens.

Thanks for info January J.

Columbus CD - I think our style is Traditional/Transitional. Definitely not Modern. We are wanting simple clean lines. I have a Kitchen ideabook saved. Here is an inspiration photo that we like. Darker floors, yes a white kitchen. Our windows will be a dark bronze too.

We have not looked too much into the double oven and cooktop yet, maybe ill look at that if that is a good recommendation.

damiarain suggested the same thing I had in mind for dish storage, and you could even have a full-height dish hutch to the left of the DW.

I'd suggest closing the gaps a little, making the side aisles smaller than 5-6'. I pulled the fridge wall out, and added a wall oven beside it, with an appliance garage/pull-out in the corner. Landing for the fridge is the island. Trash is convenient to the cooktop, both prep zones, and the clean-up zone.

I often use huango's fridge/ovens/appliance garage as an example:

It's also included in the following collage:

Mama Goose

- that 5'6" includes the counters/cabinets (~24") or recommended depth? , so two of the aisles are gonna be approx 42" and the aisle from the fridge to the island would be approx 50" based on the depth of my fridge I pick. Is that better?

I really like that appliance cabinet you linked!! and the trash zone too.

Oops, my mistake. The fridge aisle should be OK, but if you're planning to have drawers on the island facing the DW, you'll need at least 48" for the DW door and drawers to open fully at the same time. If you choose the hutch option, then 42" counter-to-counter should work. (Not 42" cabinet-to-cabinet--the counter overhangs will reduce the aisle by 2-3".)

I'd push the island out a few more inches, to make the prep/cooking aisle 48".

So counter top to counter top, at least 42", then more if we do drawers coming from the island - Thanks!

I love the last layout by mamagoose with huangos appliance pullout. I would do it that. Great advice from everyone else. My only suggestion is to make sure to not go less then 48” on the dw isle to the dish drawer. You’ll love that easy unloading into the drawer. My isle for that setup is 53” and that works perfect with my drawer all the way out, dw open and about 2-3 inches to spare. 48” works but more is better imo.

Guess I have never use a lower drawer for dishes. Always have used upper cabinets for dishes and cups.

What's everyone's thoughts on lowers vs uppers for dishes and cups? Both my wife and I are tall. 6-1 and 5-10.

GW discussions--dishes in drawers.

I don’t like the landing zone for the fridge being behind you as one person proposed - that’s a lot of twisting around if you’re getting things out, and with kids in the house - I know here our 12 year old has occasionally saved himself from dropping something via a desperate lunge forwards to put it on the counter. That move wouldn’t work if he had to twist around first. (In a perfect world such stuff wouldn’t happen, but he’s a kid, he’s learning.)

Having a landing zone across from a refrigerator vs. beside it affects how one would position their body when removing items from fridge to counter and vice versa. No one is going to twist their waist like a swivel chair to reach the counter behind them. I have counter space both beside and across from my refrigerator, but I prefer the landing across from it. Seems easier for me. I'm always positioned so that I'm not twisting. That said, having the option of both landing spaces would be preferable to being forced to choose between one or the other when developing the layout.

Regarding dishes in drawers, think carefully whether or not it would work for you considering yours and your wife's height, Todd.

Having landing space behind the fridge on an island is convenient if one has a French door fridge. I have a single door fridge, but I find the island convenient if I am laying out multiple items--packages of carrots, celery, and meat for soup.

Todd, I was thinking about your 'stadium seating' at the island. Since you have a long back wall, you could put the fridge on that wall, then have two seats on the short side of the island, which would also allow you to make the aisles a little wider, and would be more conducive to conversation. Downside is that the fridge will be more visible from the dining room. I moved the hall opening back, if that is feasible.

I would love to play with ideas for you but right now I'm on a cruise.

When's your day at sea Cpartist? Ha.!

I will have the island behind the fridge on island and there is counter to the left of the fridge too if the Fridge doors opens up towards the back wall..that little "L " Corner. Shown in Red.

Hi Todd, I have the mirror image of Mama gooses last layout with the exception of a small counter area between fridge and microwave. I have posted photos of my kitchen ad nauseam because I am so happy with how it functions and looks. Ours was a major renovation and the 4th one we have done- and by far the best. We have a 48" and a wall oven but we cook and entertain a lot.

Mihelene- great space! Mine me asking what fridge you have?

They are panel ready Thermidor columns. Nice units.

MamaGoose and others-. You all have me thinking about going with a cooktop, separate oven and a steam oven. Never used a steam oven but it seems like they get great reviews.

So should I stack the ovens beside the fridge like below that mama suggested? Then make that corner an appliance cabinet.

Second option maybe doing a range range and Adding a steam oven to the island or somewhere else? Will need to incorporate a microwave too for the kids.

Suggestions?