I’ve gone a seed buying spree lately... It helps me cope with the winter blues. Among my purchases were larkspur, blue flax, and blue morning glory vine. A bit of a theme I suppose... except for the the Ann folkard hardy geranium.

One offering I am tempted to try on the Westcoast seeds site is micro clover seeds for the lawn. It’s quite expensive, but it sounds like an absolutely amazing lawn alternative, has anyone tried it?

I have more than an acre of multi-culture lawns, in large part clovers, but home to many diverse plants. No need to buy expensive "micro-clover" seed. Just buy organic clover seed, eschew herbicides, mow on the highest setting, don't pick up lawn clippings, and watch your lawn evolve.

For those of you buying seed I’m curious as to how you are sowing, and your best germination rate?

I’ve dabbled under lights, winter and direct.

By far, under lights was the best for me.

Winter sowing was not so great. I did end up with some plants, just not the ones I really wanted . My fault I’m sure, from not protecting from the critters.

Direct very disappointing.

How have you been most successful?

Missionmom, here's a photo of micro clover growing in my lawn, it has tiny dense thick foliage with only a scant minuscule few blooms over a brief period of time, at least that's been my experience. The rest of my lawn has regular white clover with heavy bloom production over a lengthy period and requiring frequent mowing if one is to walk bare foot without being stung. Also, the white clover varies quite a bit and there's several signficiant patches having unattractive large and sparse foliage of a lighter color. Now, those who insist on having a perfect very uniform lawn with as few clover blooms as possible, this is where micro clover fits the bill. Either way you go, clover helps to suppress and choke out weeds, while doing an excellent job of fertilizing the grass ... now, that sounds like a sales pitch, lol.

GardenHo, In April I start seeds in small pots for replanting in the ground when the weather is warm enough, and in larger containers for those plants that will be living in large pots. I keep the small pots on a glassed in but unheated back porch at night, and I put them outdoors during the day. I have what I call a "rain table" and the pots go under the plexiglass on rainy days, but sit atop the cement blocks on sunny days - to accustom them to the outdoors.

I keep the plants in large containers in our heated (but still cool) basement and put them outside in the driveway on sunny days.

As you would expect, germination rate is very good for seeds saved or bought from the previous fall, and it declines with 2 year old seeds, and is very low for older seeds.

For seeds that can be planted directly in the ground, I also plant a bunch of small pinwheels in the ground around them to prevent birds from plucking up new sprouts while searching for tasty insects in the ground, but it won't necessarily protect them from marauding rabbits.

In my growing zone, June 1st is the safest time to plant seeds that go directly in the ground, for plants raised from seed to go into the ground, and for planted containers and large pots to go out for the summer.

I have never had much luck with winter sowing either.

Spedi I’m glad that works good for you with good results. It does seem like a lot of work hauling back and forth? Are you working or retired?

I tried starting seeds indoors, and I stink. They would germinate, but after that I could not get it right and they just didn't survive. Soil too wet? Too dry? Have no idea. Never even got them in the ground. I've had great success with wintersowing. Perhaps for the careless gardener it is our best. I think at this point it's either mother nature or I ruin it. I did lose several jugs last year to slugs, but I was gone for two weeks and they were unmonitored. They were maybe 15% of my jugs, so it wasn't a huge loss. I've saved some old stove grates, as well as a steel-mesh garden cart whose handle broke off (TWICE, in two different spots after paying for a welder to fix the first spot. >:-( Fie fie fie!) that I'll use to elevate the jugs and that will make a huge difference. The jugs are by the woodpile because it's a great windbreak for them, as well as out of hot sun, so I can just elevate those grates on some logs. Our junkyard has free pallets I can get, as well. I'm going to be the junky lady with jugs in her yard. HA! Take that, neighbors!

I think if I were to direct sow I would buy 100x as many seeds as I need! I had a huge patch of poppy seeds sprout during our late November warm spell. It was so excited to see them sprout on their own! but so not exciting to think they were going to get zapped by winter. Hopefully there are more in the ground ungerminated. Very curious to see what happens in that patch this spring. Any poppy that shows its cotyledon is welcome!

‘I'm going to be the junky lady with jugs in her yard. HA! Take that, neighbors’

lol Deann...Whatever works!

I've already winter sowed 42 milk jugs. Just the usual stuff: larkspur, rudbeckia, foxglove, penstemon. Gives me something to do in Winter besides eating! LOL

That micro clover caught my eye a few years ago but I also thought the price was a little high just be playing around with, plus I'd have to kill off all the clover I already have which would be no small project! Interesting though that it doesn't flower as much. That's my biggest complaint about what I already have, that and the way it just races for my flower beds as soon as my back is turned.

Once I get my seeds most will be sown into pots with a light cover of grit (small bits of gravel). Those will all go outside into the cold and when they sprout they sprout. Same as winter sowing I think, just no milk jug requirement!

Deanna, do you think there's any chance some of the poppy seedlings will overwinter? I used to grow them as biennials but the soil here is just too heavy and they end up rotting over winter.

Yes, GardenHo, I am retired. You are correct that ferrying the flats of plants back and forth each day for 2 months would probably be beyond me if I were still working. If my "rain table" were set up closer to the back porch, it would be easier, but that would place it within the dogs' yard, and my pots might become chew toys!

I sow seeds in 9cm square pots which are on the greenhouse bench, floor, on the wall coping, on the garden bench, alongside the greenhouse, stacked up next to the brick raised beds...in short, any vaguely flat space. I use a loam based mix, with sieved leafmould, vermiculite (or whatever else comes to hand for drainage and aeration), and top the pots with a layer of chick grit (flint, not soluble oyster shell). My germination rates vary from around 50% with bought-in seed, to 70-80% with saved seed - would possibly be more but I am not good at hanging onto to apparently empty pots, so after a season, I tend to tip any no shows back into the compost bin.

I don't use lights...or heat or stuff like gibberelic acid because I am lazy and neglectful. Chances are, something new will be germinating most days now. (hellebores at present)..until late May.

Tempted by Twors (sp?) lewisias - ordered some myself, along with sweet peas, vaccaria, night flowering catchfly (silene noctiflora), wild carrot 'Dara', verbesina and another yellow daisy which I can't recall.

Where do you all order your Lewisia seeds? I considered WS it, but feedback has not been great. In addition I want Lewisia 'Elise' and the only vendor is Parks Seeds, which means I would have to pay full shipping for one pack of seeds because they don't have anything else I want. I think the seed packet is $5 for ?15? seeds, which is already up there in price. Given that germination for many people is iffy, that's a lot to pay when full shipping is added on, as well. Any other sources of 'Elise' seeds?

I've been sowing seeds indoors under lights for probably at least 20 years now - I've got it down pat. DH finally bought me one of those fancy light carts I've been wanting forever and a day - previously had a jimmy-rigged system. I find seed sowing indoors easy and enjoyable in the late winter. I love sowing seeds, watching them germinate and grow (it still thrills me even after all these years!), and caring for them.

“jimmy-rigged system.”

I too used this system..And boy it worked. Ended up with over 300 seedlings! 90-95% germination to my surprise. It was great but I just started the too early and got tired of coddling them..couldn’t wait to get them in the ground lol. Live and learn...

Nice hubby of yours :)

Twros... thanks so much!!! I think that was the photo I needed to push me over the edge. I have a woman who helps me pull weeds during the season and she mentioned she can get the micro clover seeds wholesale. I think I will thatch and seed my lawn with micro clover this year.

"Nice hubby of yours"

Hey, I earned it - it was gift when I finally completed grad school.

I also saw how the Lewisia Elise is harder to get. At first I was determined to find it somewhere and insist on a reasonable price but then I had a flash of good sense and realized I would likely kill either (1) the seeds (2) the seedlings or (3) the nearly blooming size plants. When I considered that, I found it much easier to convince myself I'd be ok with one of the other varieties. Even if I did grow a first year bloomer it's very likely my care in the first year would not be good enough to get it blooming, so problem solved.

All that said I've seen the results of other's seed starting, and searching for Elise will definitely be worth it!

Right now I have to remind myself every day that I should wait at least two more days before clicking 'buy' on any seeds. I know that I'll just want something else next week, and maybe waiting will help me figure out what I really, really, really NEED as opposed to what I really want right now.

Who am I kidding. I don't need anything new. It's all just wants at this point, but that's what makes it fun.

Just got the Brent and Becky's catalog. Suddenly I want dahlias and caladiums and some awfully overbred and frilly gladiolus. They really look like something I NEED!

Missionmom, when it comes to clover seed, a little goes a long ways because of the manner in which clover spreads. You can mix it thoroughly with a large volume of sand and then broadcast over your lawn. I had tried placing the clover / sand mix in a small hand spreader, though the sand leaked into the the moving parts (just like I knew it would!) and immediately ceased it up, gggrrr, lol. The photo shown is pretty much the full bloom I had observed, though depending on your particular conditions, what you experience might be different, but this clover is known for its general low bloom production and attractive very small foliage.

Deannatoby, indeed I did receive the lewisia 'Elise' seeds from Parks. Although, I'm in Canada, I've been ordering from Parks for over twenty years without a single problem or glitch and always with a very good seed germination. I of course cannot place orders for live plants and am unable to rate that aspect. The three packs sown (45 seeds in total) have thus far yielded 37 seedlings, so I'd say that's pretty good! I did get free shipping and that helped to negate the difference of the Canadian dollar being lower in value. If one signs up to receive Parks email promotion notices, you'll get word of specials and when free shipping is offered ... usually, there's like a $39.00 minimum to receive such, though on occasion, I've gotten in on free shipping with NO minimum purchase required. Beyond Parks, there must be other reliable sources for 'Elise' in the US?

Again, as for lewisia seed culture, sow onto a sandy lean medium that is just slightly moist to the touch, remember that very moist and rich will quickly spell the death of these succulent like little seedlings. Now, this will seem like a bit of a contradiction, but high humidity is required, otherwise the cotyledons will often have trouble coming free from the seed coat. To raise the humidity, tent with plastic and at times lift and mist the plastic with fine droplets of water. As for germination temperature, I keep my house cool in winter 19 C (66F) or so and even lower at night and this seems to suit them well.

I ordered 42 packets of seeds between late summer and now in multiple orders of 5 to 10 packets. I sowed 500 seeds in trays. If all of them germinate in the spring I'm going to be out in the yard a long time

Thank you, Twros! I'll sign up for emails from Park's and watch my inbox.

The past two times I did my WS I became very weary of trying to find places for those oooooo and aaaaaaaaah seedlings I purchased in the naiveté of winter seed ogling. Just the thought of it wears me out now. I've been really good about only buying seeds of things I need and had planned ahead to purchase. The seeds I did purchase this year that were not on the list were things that have an obvious location, like several native asters from Prairie Moon Seeds that will fit in well on the edges of woods.

That being said, I still have many many seed packets to sow. Right now it stands at 86, not including my most recent order from Select Seeds that has not shipped yet, which kind of boggles my mind!. I won't have that many jugs, though, because I'll combine more than one seed per jug. Those seed pacakets that only have 25 seeds will NOT get their only WS jug and will have to share space!

Well, 2018 is going to be a year of decluttering and really taking a look at what I have, and using it in the best way possible. Most of my additional purchases come from spring plant sales anyway. Next month will be our local seed exchange, which has turned into a really big thing - so that will probably spearhead most of my madness. My partner in crime and I have go it all planned out - and one of our objectives is to really use our respective Floralight Grow systems to their best ability this year (I've not used mine at all!). Everything has to be planted on their trays by mid March.

I'm new to buying phlox online since it's the only way to get anything other than the ubiquitous David and Bright Eyes, which I have and love, but would like to find some blues and lavenders. Question: Which are the favored online growers and how long before bare roots bloom?

flowers, I haven't ordered much online, and if you are already aware of what I'm about to write, please excuse me. I did order my first mail-order plants last year. Right now the main source of information on quality, etc., seems to the Garden Watchdog at Davesgarden.com. I looked there at reviews for great customer service if there was an issue, as well as quality of plants arriving.

After that my main concern was finding a place close to me. Plants shipped to Maine from the NW would obviously not do as well as plants shipped from New England. Indeed, I ordered plants from Select Seeds in CT, and they arrived in amazing shape. Wonderfully careful packaging, extremely healthy, very happy. They were, however, SMALL SMALL SMALL, which I knew to expect. You can't ship a 1 gallon or 1 /2 gallon pot without shipping killing you. I got 3 1/2 inch pots. All the plants were VERY SMALL as they grew through the summer, but healthy. I knew I would just wait till this year to see significant growth and bloom.

I am, however, one of the weird ones in gardening when it comes to size. I don't like planting big pots. Takes too long to dig the hole and untangle potbound roots. I love planting them small when their roots have a chance to establish naturally in the soil. Therefore, I am more than willing to wait a year on blooms! I could plop ten of those those 3 1/2 in pots in the ground in the same time it would take to do one single 1 gallon pot! My planting bed was new last year and the soil was amended, tilled, etc., fluffy and beautiful. I must say last year even the 1 gallon pots were easy to plant, but that's not always the case.

Some of those tiny plants bloomed wonderfully the first year (Lewisia 'Elise') and others bloomed some even though they were small (hardy mums), and others won't take off until this year (Amsonia hubrichtii). But, I'd order from them again.

If I was on the western coast, I'd be ordering from Annie's Annuals & Perennials out of California. Thee photos are absolutely amazing, and they seem to have such a selection of everything...except tall phlox. :-(

I'd love to put in a big order to Annies Annuals, but the shipping cross country just chills my enthusiasm. I guess I'll have to satisfy my urges to kill expensive plants with the East coast stuff... although I don't think Annies is expensive, it's just that shipping!

I've placed orders for phlox through Perennial Pleasures in Vermont... who's website is down today I just noticed, but they have a nice Facebook site... I like their big selection of many harder to find older and unique newer varieties. They are one of those small nurseries which do most of their own growing, so not everything is industrially hormoned up and chemicalized, but the do have excellent phlox. I wouldn't mind visiting some day, they also seem to have plenty of heirloom and hard to find things which you can always find a spot for.

You know, mxk3 posted this quickly after my above post:

"^^ Wow, that's a lot of plants! What did you sow?"

I edited my first post and his disappeared. Does editing a post making subsequent ones vanish?

Anyway, mxk3, the notice of your messages was still in my email. Some of my seeds are leafy veggies (lettuces, etc.), herbs, and tomatoes. Rest are onrmanetals. I really like planting perennials from seed if I can because I like (1) getting several plants for the price of a packet and potting mix, (2) planting things very small so the roots develops naturally in the soil, (3) watching them grow quickly in one season.

My big focus this year is pollinator plants, both annual and perennial. Very excited about the native Eastern Red columbine, Aquilegia canadensis. I do not like columbines normally, but not only do I love the colors of this one, it's also a native and a magnet for our only common eastern hummingbird species, the Ruby-Throated Hummingbird. Have other things for bees, birds, butterflies, etc. Basically, all the "B" things, but hoepfully not beetles.

Of the annuals I'm planting many many poppies. Love them!

I'm with you Deanna, on "small," most particularly when it comes to trees. Small enough seedlings can be planted by the "slit method" aka making a slit with a shovel and dropping the bare roots of a tiny seedling into it. They need water for 30 days after planting, but not as much water as a taller tree. The same thing applies to flowering perennial plants. Less is more, sort of.

Yes! Small trees even better. When you talk about seedlings, you mean tree seedlings? I didn't know you could buy trees young enough to be considered seedlings, but if you can I am thrilled! This coming summer will be my first time to purchase trees/bushes. How tall are tree seedlings when purchased?

I'm planning on adding some under canopy trees (still trying to decide which goes where) and I'm really hoping I don't have problems finding small trees to plant. One of our better nurseries in the Portland area told me their perennials are always in big pots because in their area people want "plant it big and bold" from the start. I'm sure that means they want things to look mature and filled in faster. And...it also means they almost always have professional installations. Hoping to find a "smaller and faster" nursery somewhere for my tree purchases, especially since trees planted smaller are healthier and grow bigger/more quickly in the long run.

I think the seedling thing is one of the better attractions of WS for me. Plop the babies in the ground fast. With ornamentals when 100 seedlings germinate and you only need a few to fill a spot, there's no stress if some die after planting!

I have ordered hosta, clematis and peonies for the fall. I don’t do a ton of seeds but have started pumpkin, nasturtiums, basil and parsley-hopefully for the butterflies :)

It’s been pretty mild here and it’s really making me twitchy for spring! But there’s only so much to be done this time of year.

Deanna, ask on the tree forum for suggestions of nurseries that sell bare root. If you want a bunch of something, check out the NH State Nursery in Boscowen. They sell bundles of 10 all the same species or packages of predetermined mixes. Very limited choices, but great prices and they grow well.

Deanna, I'm not sure if I'm using the correct terminology, but, to me, trees in the 4-8" or 6-12" are what I call seedlings. I'm not sure how tall a tree must be to be considered a sapling, but trees in the 2 to 4 foot range would seem closer to that.

I've had very good luck ordering from https://www.coldstreamfarm.net/ . They are in Michigan, and they ship bareroot. Most of the trees (apples, crabs, spruce, sugar maples, and birch) I've planted came from there.

Deanna, I agree about planting smaller plants. They seem to do better in the long run. Thanks for jogging my memory about Dave's Garden. I haven't been there for awhile.

Katob, I will check out Perennial Pleasures for their hard to find plants. I love finding new things that aren't in the local nurseries. I cringe to think what shipping might be from Vermont, but worth a look.

My best bet, come to think of it, might be to ask a local nursery to order a specific variety of phlox for me. So many independent nurseries have gone by the wayside with big box stores carrying more and more nursery stock these days, but there are a couple nurseries still alive and well in town.

Well, I just ordered from two different nurseries and kinda blew most of my Spring budget. I'm telling myself it's a birthday present. I bought several plants I have really wanted and a few I never knew I wanted but researching indicates are absolutely needed (okay, maybe not!). This means seeds, a few planned purchas, and swapping is ahead for me this Spring.

I just ordered a butt-load of seeds, as posted in a separate post.

Deannatoby: I was going to order lettuce seed but held off for this year. I've never grown lettuce from seed - any special tips/tricks required?

I just submitted my Bluestone order (coupons expire Jan 31):

3 euphorbia Glacier Blue

1 ostrich fern

1 stachys minima

I'm feeling self-satisfied for keeping it below $100 with shipping. When the end of season sale occurs, I'll likely order a few more things LOL.

Now I'm studying Schreiner's Iris website...

As much as I know hakonechloas are the bane of my existence, one of the things on my list to try this year is Hakonechloa macra SunFlare. I'd heard about it last year, but supposedly wide distribution this year. I hope I will not rip out my hair over this one.

mxk3, I'm not the expert and have only grown it once. If spedigrees is here, she should know much more. But, I will say that a big problem seemed to be bugs. The softer lettuces are major bug attractors, especially since the best part of the plant is right on the ground. That was the biggest thing I remember. I'm not going to be OCD. I'm going to try some this year and see how it goes. I like the fact that lettuces can handle shade because they prefer cool over hot. That makes them ideal to stick in the multiple shadier areas of my yard. I'll probably mix some in with the ornamentals, as well, and still harvest them to eat.

Lettuce needs light to germinate. so sow on top of the soil...also, not a problem at the moment, but it will not germinate once the temperature reaches 70F. It can be grown in flats (small, shallow roots) and will transplant into beds as soon as true leaves appear.

There are different types of lettuce - I find the easiest are the non-hearting types such as Romaine and Cos types. Lobjoits Green Cos is my go-to all round summer lettuce (although I love a crisphead such as Webbs Wonderful). least favourite are butterheads...although Winter Density is a good one for a late summer sowing to overwinter (in the UK).

Are you growing other saladings such as purslane, miner's lettuce, rucola, radicchio, pea shoots?

After several weeks of agony, I stopped editing my cart and ordered Elsa Sass, La Perle and Mrs FDR from Adelman's this morning. The roots won't be delivered until October so maybe that doesn't count as a spring order but those peonies would likely sell out if I waited. Yes, I'll undoubtedly add a few more to the order in late summer if the new bed taking shape in my imagination materializes.

Wow, that's a great selection of peonies. You will love all of them esp. Mrs. FDR. She's gorgeous and a good performer for me.

Thanks Karen, I've only seen Mrs FDR in photos - it's nice to know she's good in the mid Atlantic.

Thanks for addressing my lettuce question. I didn't get any lettuce seeds this year, but maybe I'll pick up a small 4-pack of transplants to see how it goes - at a buck a piece, what's to lose. Nothing fancy, just leaf or Romaine or bibb, whatever's available. I might pick up some floating row cover, that may help with the bugs.

The lettuce will bolt not long after reaching size, so it is often recommended that if you want it on an ongoing basis you plant a few seeds every couple of weeks.

I've been ordering seeds since November, but the real fun has been the past couple of weeks with Bluestone's 50/50 sale. I haven't gotten much so far, since my garden is now full enough that I'm being more selective -- but it's completely unfair that in two weeks only ONE item on my wishlist has been part of the sale. Oh, well, it's easy to find things you didn't know you wanted...

Lettuce has always been one of the easiest and quickest germinators for me. I started them in a shallow deck railing planter. Like Babs, I do several sowings. Hot summer weather puts an end to fresh local lettuce until the farmers market opens with their lettuce. I like the mesculun mixes, red leaved, and salad bowl, mostly loose leaf. One packet generally lasts 2-3 yrs. for me.

i haven’t ordered any new seeds as have collected seeds and am waiting to see what kind of garden area I end up with here. Expect to do mostly vegetables this year. Will buy seeds locally for what I need this year.

Brought a few of my miniature hosta from the old place and will grow them in pots on my deck. Also brought a heuchera that I have grown in a pot for several years. Thinking of getting a clematis to grow either on the deck or one end of my gardening space.

When is Bluestone's half off sale on everything?

Sigh, I had been so responsible this year (after last years insane seed ordering) but all that has gone to sh*t now I have a new rabbit-hole to fall down. The seeds of numerous plants with 'tinctoria' as part of the binomial, are arriving daily. Persicaria tinctoria and indigofera tinctoria arrived today (and are soaking away to break the seed-coat dormancy). Anyone ever used acid for this?

Acid for a seed addiction? I have to be honest, even though I know it hurts: Trading one addiction for another isn't the answer. LSD is no joke...usually.

(But here it kind of is.)

;-D

Camp- thanks, now I made the effort to find out what the Latin meaning for tinctoria and can add it to that short list of latin plant names which actually mean something to me.

In case others out there also didn't know 'tinctoria' in the name indicates the plant was used or was thought to be useful for dyeing at one time. Someone please correct me if that's not true, I'm only as smart as the closest search engine :)

I did break down and order a few phlox from Perennial Pleasures, and a few hardy cactus from The Cactus Man. It threw me off a little that the cactus were already shipped and have arrived ( a box of bagged cacti pads, no roots), but based on how well the ones I have tolerate neglect I think these will be fine. Once some snow melts I'll have to see if I can find a spot to plant them, or just pot them up and put them somewhere outside, protected from the bulk of any rain or snow that comes down.

I'm having some serious seed starting issues this year. There are already dozens of small pots chilling until spring and I'm seriously considering ordering more. The NA rock garden society goes $7 for 20 packets on March 1st (but you need to be a member) and after the 14th the American Primrose Society is some ridiculously low price of $8 for 10 packets (for non members) and they've got some real fancy seed from all over the world including France's Barnhaven.

I found some clearance shop lights this weekend. I already have plants under a few, having a few more is surely not a good sign.