Over slab? I recently had glue-down flooring installed and it feels as solid as a rock. There was quite a bit of prep work involved ... grinding high spots and filling low spots. We discussed it ahead of time and it was an additional charge. Maybe that step was skipped on your project?

@jellytoast interesting. Yes, the majority is over slab. In the kitchen and a hallway there was linoleum and the installation manager told them to rip it up and if they couldn’t use a leveler. I saw they didn’t rip the linoleum up and used the leveler... these are the areas we seem to have most of the problem but even where it’s glued down to the slab they didn’t do any prep. They literally came in and ripped out carpet and swept and started putting glue down and installing. This is our first glued down floor and we weren’t living here and I didn’t know this wasn’t standard. At first, they sold it to me as a floating floor but the installer then said he couldn’t install it floating so they switched to glue down which obviously cost more and I did pay more for the glue. Thanks for your help...I didn’t know how common this was as they made it seem like all glue down floors have hollow spots here and there.

Our floor is glued down and there are some hollow sounding spots, but nothing moves. You would have to tap it or drop a golf ball on it to really notice the hollow sound. Over all, its pretty solid and nothing I'd want to drill holes to fix.

@suzyq53 yes, I am fine with the few hollow spots here or there it’s just the movement spots that when you step on it the whole area buckles that bothers me most. I agree... no holes is ideal!

@g & s floor service thank you! I’ll definitely ask more questions when I talk to the flooring company. Our contractor let us work directly with the flooring store (as he personally knows the sales guy we were working with and said we could just handle everything thru him regarding the floors) so he’s not involved anymore really. When first installed, my contractor had the installation manager come out and look at the job bc he didn’t think they laid the boards staggered correctly? And there were spots of glue all over, and many other issues. But now he’s pretty much out of the picture and I’m dealing directly with the flooring store. So just trying to educate myself, I want to be reasonable but we paid a good Amount for the floors and hate that there are so many holes in our brand new floors and more need to be drilled!

Improper prep. Guaranteed. Do over.

@Sophie Wheeler... thank you. would you request they do the entire floor over (as it seems as time goes on we keep finding more spots) or just the kitchen area which is the worst? I don’t want to be unreasonable but want this flooring to last.

So just trying to understand. You purchased the flooring and the floor store's employees installed it or the floor store has independent installers they use? I don't know what an installation manager is.

And btw, Sophie is almost always right.

@Suzyq53 the flooring store hired an independent installer to install (they have a few in house installers but they were all booked apparently... I would have GLADLY waited for the in house installer if I knew this obviously) it also was apparently one of the first times they’d used them (but they came “highly recommended”) The installation manager works for the store and he organizes and hires the installers on the specific jobs. So every time I need a repair he has now been scheduling his in house guys to come repair it...and they say they’ll come out as many times as I need but at some point it seems like there are so many holes in my floor that another solution may need to be looked into? I feel like I may need to talk to the owner of the flooring store to find a resolution but didn’t want to escalate things if this was common.

That's what I was thinking. Talk to the owner. Its encouraging that the company is willing to accept responsibiliy and continue to try to rectify the issue, but if Sophie is right, and she usually is, all these fixes, do not fix the problem, and now your floor is swiss cheese because they did it wrong. And that's not right. If they didn't prep correctly they should start over. Have you asked them point blank "why is this happening?". Its because something is not right. You didn't get what you paid for.

If, they poured leveler directly on top of the linoleum. There is no bond between those two materials. One of two things need to done, the linoleum needs to be removed, because it is nonporous. The leveler will not bond. Or if it is solid, they can abrade the linoleum with 40 - 60 grit sand paper, apply a urethane or epoxy primer (bond enhancer) then spread sand on top of the primer while it is still wet and let dry. That will give the surface some texture and the leveler will have something to grab onto and not come loose. Then they could apply leveler. This is probably the source of your problem and the reason why the floor is loose. They can remove a board and check for adhesion between glue to leveler, leveler to linoleum. If, the issue is between leveler and linoleum. There is no point in drilling holes to make repairs. You require a full rework.

"the installation manager told them to rip it up and if they couldn’t, use a leveler. I saw they didn’t rip the linoleum up and used the leveler... "

What was their reasoning for not removing it? Too much work and easier to just pour some leveler on top?

@jellytoast I didn’t see them even attempt to rip it up and I also went out of town and returned and they were done with the job so wasn’t able to ask them. And clearly thought if they left it they were doing what needed to be done to adhere the floor. The installers didn’t clean up, even undercut my brick fireplace and didn’t sweep or do anything as there was brick dust all over my house. It was a bad experience from beginning of install to now.

Also, are cracks like this normal in install? The one on the left side obviously. The right is flush up to the other board but on the left I can stick my nail in there. Just wasn’t sure how common that was either.

@g & s floor service thank you! This is such helpful information for me to know so I can talk with the flooring store about this.

Gaps in winter is normal. Wood shrinks in winter. Swells in summer. A non flat substrate with vinyl underneath is not normal.

"Also, are cracks like this normal in install?"

Depends on the product quality and installer skill as well. Some will take pride while others will not. I don't see issues in the photo. It's also a light colored hardwood. Will show more.

As already stated, the floor in the kitchen was installed over LINOLEUM. A less than ideal situation.

Just to be clear, sheet materials (like linoleum, sheet vinyl and carpet) hide some of the WORST subfloors in the world. Humps/bumps/hollows/ripples, you name it they are all hidden underneath sheet goods. That's why sheet goods are great...they HIDE some of the nastiest nasties!

So....it is HIGHLY POSSIBLE that the worst areas are because of THREE reasons and not just one:

1. Over top of lino is a stupid-difficult process and has a lot of failures (but really great professionals get things done without issue because of MASSIVE AMOUNTS of floor prep....like days and days of subfloor prep)

2. Subfloor UNDERNEATH the lino needs to be dealt with because it is humpy/lumpy/bumpy

3. Because the lino was left in place, they did NOT fix the problems sitting underneath....therefore creating more problems then if they had removed the darn stuff

And I'm not happy with the idea of "ripping up carpet" and then starting the installation of a glue down 7" wide wood plank without some sort of prep. Again, carpet is a KNOWN "hider" of bad subfloors.

And just for a bit more fun; how old is the house? Did they test the slab for moisture issues (these can be hard to find in winter if the ground is FROZEN...)?

The slight gaps you are showing in the photo are not much of an issue in winter time. I'm not too worried about it - by itself. If this was the ONLY complaint, I would say relax and wait until summer....but this is by far the LEAST of your worries.

At this point, you should be speaking to the owner of the flooring company you purchased the floor from. He is your go-to person. He hired the subcontractors to install. He is responsible for the work (or lack thereof).

Did ANYONE come out and look at the house to give you an estimate for PREPARATION fees? That's the big red flag I'm looking for here.

I feel this is going to be a complete redo - with HUGE AMOUNTS of subfloor prep added to the bill. If you PAID for prep ($1-$5/sf for prep is normal) then you should be GETTING that service. If you did NOT pay for prep, then this might be a price that you need to pay - but everything else is on the shoulders of the flooring company.

@SJ McCarthy the House was built in 1988 and hasn’t been touched since. So yes, it was blue carpet everywhere and matching linoleum in the kitchen prior to the new flooring. I as well, expected that they’d do atleast a day or two of prep work and feel like that was totally skipped. I did have the store sales representative come out and he measured and evaluated the home and flooring and then the installation manager came out right before install to confirm it was ok to glue down. When we initially priced it, it was priced as a floating floor with underlayment. Then, the installation crew said they couldn’t float it and the flooring store said they’d waive the additional labor for glueing the floor down but I had to pay for the glue. The owner has agreed to come look at it sometime tomorrow, but I want to be prepared with what’s realistic to request. We splurged on this floor and really pushed our budget to get what we really wanted (within our reasonable budget) I’m feeling pretty disappointed. We live in northern Florida, so winter isn’t quite like up north.

If the floor wasn’t flat enough to float, it wasn’t flat enough to glue. The requirements do not change.

@sophie wheeler they said they couldn’t float it bc the planks weren’t able to lock enough or something to that effect? Does that make any sense?

IMO, the fault lies with the installation manager who did not insist that the vinyl flooring be removed, thereby giving the installers the option of leaving it as is and installing over it.

Knowing about needed prep work and not agreeing to pay for it is one thing, but it's another thing altogether if the flooring store didn't go over those things with the homeowner. Even then, should proper prep work be optional for a professional installer?

I had to pay for prep work but my installer didn't give me the option of skipping that part for less money (and skipping prep work isn't something I'd even consider, regardless). Why would he risk his reputation or risk the installation failing because he skipped the prep work?

cieramachek, did you check your manufactures installation specifications? There should be something in there about required prep work for glue down on slab.

@Cieramachek - yes...it makes sense to a point. I've just looked up Ascend Flooring options in Florida. Every single wood floor they sell is allowed to be FLOATED! Oooohhh dear. Someone is in TROUBLE....

A floating wood floor doesn't typically use a "click" edge. They still use a tongue and groove but it has to be a specific form of milling to allow a floating install. Ascend Flooring sells engineered hardwoods that ALL are allowed to be floated! All of them!

Someone made a mistake thinking that a floating engineered hardwood needs a "click" type of edge to allow it to float. That is installer issue all the way!

And in Florida a floating floor is normally what we like to see simply because of the water table issues. Houses in the 1980's (more to the end of the decade like yours) normally (not all) have a vapour barrier (plastic) sitting underneath the slab. That helps stop moisture intrusion into a wood floor that is glued into place - but it is not a guarantee.

I'm assuming this is slab on grade....but in Florida there are many suspended slab homes (built on pylons) so I'm not sure what you have.

A glue down install in Florida can be a risky business because of the water table. The glues that are used can be SUPER expensive ($3/sf) because they need to act as a vapour barrier as well as an adhesive.

You can investigate the type of install ALLOWED by the manufacturer simply by looking it up. You were quoted a floating floor install...but you got a glue down. Preparation for a GLUE DOWN is more expensive install.

As Sophie points out, flat is still a requirement with either floor. A floating floor just doesn't care what is underneath it - so long as it is hard and flat. A glue down floor is MUCH PICKIER than a floating and requires dedication to preparation.

Now that I know all the Ascend hardwoods are allowed to be floated, I have a HUGE red flag as to why the subcontractors could NOT float them!!!!! Big! Red! Flag!

This goes BACK to the flooring company who HIRED the guys who said a floating wood floor could not be floated....????? Whaaaaaaat?

@SJ McCarthy... yes I saw when we purchased where it stated the floors could be floated and our sales guy repeatedly said they’d be floating. When the installers said that, I was shocked and it was this huge ordeal. My sales guy was not happy they said this. At first they were going to try to install them by Just glueing the edges but they said they didn’t like how that seemed to hold so they needed to do full glue down. I don’t know...these guys would barely talk to me and I trusted the installation manager and them knew what needed to take place?

@jellytoast when they claimed they couldn’t float the floor and the installation manager came to the house, they stated it would be more expensive and labor intensive to glue down and I agreed I’d rather do it what they claimed was “the right way” and pay more if need be. Then my sales guy said they’d cover the additional labor if I covered the glue since it was their fault they sold me the floor as floating installation when it was already at the top of what I wanted to spend. I was all set on a cheaper floor and at the last minute decided to splurge and now I feel kind of regretful because I’m wondering if I’d have had these issues with the other flooring.

Did you know they were going to undercut your fireplace brick? Did they use self-leveler or trowel leveler? They can't have used leveler if they literally ripped up the carpet and started gluing down, when did the leveling happen? Self leveler has to dry.

@Suzyq53 the area around the fireplace was just slab underneath so they didn’t use the leveler there. I did pay extra to undercut the fireplace... but others have told me that they have a shop vac and collect the dust as it’s coming out that way so it’s not all over the house. They definitely didn’t do that. I didn’t see them undercut but red brick dust was everywhere. I spent a few days cleaning it.

@suzyq53 when I saw them use the leveler it was a dark color and they just spread it all around on the linoleum. It wasn’t used in the rest of the house that had carpet with slab underneath. They did about 1300 square feet of this wood and the kitchen and a hallway off the kitchen were the only portion of that with the linoleum underneath

There was zero dust in my house after undercutting my fireplace brick and grinding the slab. The installer had two gigantic hepa vacuums attached to each other and to his grinder. I was home during the install and didn't see any dust flying around at all, and there was none left when it was all over either.

My slab looked to be in incredible condition compared to most that I've seen and it still needed a good deal of prep work. The installer went over every inch of it with a straight edge and marked all the high and low spots and there were some in every room. All of those areas were addressed before installing the wood. Additionally, the entire floor was roughed up with a grinder before any work started. If your installers showed up at your house and started gluing down wood the first day without checking everything first, that's a problem.

From your manufacture's website for glue down: All Concrete sub-floors must be dry, smooth (level with 3/16” in a 10 foot Radius – 1/8” in 6”) and free of structural defects. Hand scrape or sand with a 20 grit #3-1/2 open face paper to remove loose, flaky concrete. Grind high spots in concrete and fill low spots with a Portland based leveling compound (min. 3,000 psi).

My floor looks very similar to yours. When they installed it on concrete slab they covered all of the concrete with self-leveler/vapor barrier. It was a thick liquid that they poured on so that it spread out to level by itself. That had to dry for a day or so before they started gluing down the floor. Sounds like your guy just troweled some leveler on the linoleum which is not right and at the least, they should have primed over the linoleum first and used the leveler everywhere.

I am wondering if I need to request them to remove everything bc of this install? A few of my rooms seem pretty solid but now I’m worried over time that’s not going to be the case?

You can do that or you can let them keep coming back to drill holes and inject glue. Have you asked them why they installed your flooring without doing any prep?

They are not very good pictures, but here's what my floor looks like.

@suzyq53 they do look similar, love your floors!

We're on the coast so the lighting really makes a huge difference in the rooms, but the floor pretty much goes with everything and we're not fussy about cleaning so this is a more relaxed approach. Once you get it sorted out, you will love the floors.

From start either glue down or floating, the subfloor has to be prepped the right way, they should have use a minimum 8 ft leveler check for any uneven spots and use self leveling compund to fill in any hollow spots and after all the subfloor is leveled they should have proceeded with a full trowl glue down if that's required by the installation manual of the flooring or float it, all depending on the case. Also the floor has to be allowed to acclimate inside the apartment to reach the temperature and humidity from the apartment with the boxes open or as indicated by the manufacturer, humidity in the apartment should be kept between 35-60% and have a constant temperature to avoid any shrinking or expansion of the wood.