Or maybe a dwarf azalea, as long as it will tolerate more shade than sun during the summer. Would a bloom-a-thon / encore take more shade like a traditional azalea or would a radicans gardenia maybe be a better choice for more shade ? I don't care about the azalea re-blooming really, but i would like it to bloom in the spring. During the winter my deciduous trees are all bare so i get good mixed sun during the winter, the summer is just more hit or miss in this spot.

2 x 2 and cheap. In a shrub? That is extremely small. The things that get that size are extremely dwarf with the associated slow growth rate. And price. They are out there. A number of mugo pine varieties, for example. Little gem dwarf spruce.

Secnd thing...how big are those hydrangea going to get?

I'd be looking at a perennials with evergreen foliage. Hellebores, evergreen diosporum, something like that.

Established ES hydrangeas can get a lot larger than just 4'x4' in a suitably mild climate. And 2'x2' is a pretty tight sizing for most shrubs. They don't exactly stop growing at some arbitrary, predetermined size :-))

I too would select hellebores or even heucheras for this area (hellebores are considered an evergreen perennial). Or even something low and spreading, like bergenia, groundcover sarcococca or liriope or ophiopogon.

very true, which is even more reason why i think i may need something larger than helleborus. If i have three hydrangeas all at least 4ft wide, with some spacing in between.. that's a lot of bare ground in the winter.

based on what you say,i'd be thinking something more a ground cover (vinca, liriope, pachysandra). it'll grow under the hydrangea and help you with the bare ground issue.

I also kinda think you're over thinking things a little too much. Winter for you is what, two months? ok, just kidding. but you'll barely have time to let things go through fall before spring growth is upon you. and you're worried about bare ground, which won't really be bare because of branching. no reason why the ground cover can't be there anyway, even with (whatever hedge border).

you're in such a southern zone that honestly, this northern kid is barely able to comment on what you can grow. holly fern?

Evergreen ferns.

Holly ferns are wonderful.

Daphne odora is great.

We can get boxwoods for $12 to $20 at Home Depot.

Due to box blight box is no longer reliable. The pathogen also attacks Sarcococca and Pachysandra as well (these are related to box).

While we're tossing out psa bulletins, note toxicity of boxwood clippings when fed to animals.

haha Wayne yes we have two hard months of the 40s, last week I even had to wear a jacket :)

I could do ferns but I was thinking of adding some fern in between the hydrangea. I saw a picture and it looked great with the two textures and leaf differences.

I would like to try the Daphne but never found anyone with it. I think I may just get the boxwood. Even though I can add some groundcover this area gets a lot of leaves and the leaves will probably cover up any ground cover unless it's a fern or mondo grass type. I want something with some density to look OK even if it was the only thing there in the summer

See this pic for reference.. my paint skills at work :)

Purple star- Formosa azalea (not moving)

Blue circle - hydrangea (three are there now, can add the fourth if I'd like)

Green circle -shrub we are talking about

Pink square - japonica camellia

Black circle are two pine trees

Everything else is fill-in.. mondo grass, hostas, ferns , etc. All can be decided later but added for the picture.

Osmanthus fortunei, Osmanthus burkwoodii, Sarcococca ruscifolia - these are winterblooming shrubs with wonderfully fragrant flowers and while they can all get really big, it is possible to keep them trimmed low. Sounds like the Hydrangeas will get big anyway and it's possible within a few years maybe you will replant the area, right? Then maybe we're talking one big Hydrangea with spaces around it for shade perennials and the other Hydrangeas and the shrubs we're talking about now can be moved elsewhere?

Dwarf conifers could also be pretty cute - Chaemocyparis obtusa 'Minima', Mugo pine, etc?

I am agreeing with comments that propose shade perennials - Trillium, Corydalis, Heuchera, Saxifraga, Eranthis, Disporum, Smilacina, Uvularia, Hosta, etc etc etc!!!!

Ferns and hydrangeas are a classic combination. And unlike additional shrubs ferns would fit in the space shown.

I agree that ferns and hellebores would be good choices..I have lots of each all over my woodland garden..just took this screenshot from a gardenweb post..I think hellebores would be beautiful..

Brazilian Spinach might work for you there. I have some in 9b, and they do a bit better when shaded some. They seem to only get about a foot high, then start to go wide, but seem pretty easy to maintain as slow growers. Bonus is that they're edible. Leaves look similar to boxwoods, about an inch diameter and crinkly. It's the plant in the middle on this photo -

thanks everyone. i think i am going to go with the radicans gardenias. I hope this area isn't too much shade for them in the summer but i think they look similar to the boxwood and still mound somewhat but i like how they sprawl out so it may look better in the winter having more area taken up by green instead of just brown everywhere. I will add some others later, i wanted these "shrubs" first and once i get them planted i can look for more plants to add ! never ends does it

The hydrangeas and gardenias are going to grow into one another. And even though gardenias will grow in shade they have a vivid yellow-green leaf color that is characteristic of plants adapted to hot situations. One that will not look natural with hydrangeas.

well thank you for that wrench :o)

I am adding ferns like you had suggested but i do not like holly ferns and that is what my nursery had suggested as a good evergreen in my area. I am going to use wood fern i believe, to go in between the hydrangeas. I know this box blight can be an issue but i just keep going back to them. i don't want yellow-green leaves. hmmmmm

Is this the area you are talking about? If so there are a couple of things which spring to my mind. One is that you seem to have an awful lot of shrubs in your drawing for that space and the other is the condition of the ground below the pine trees. It isn't just shady, it's also likely to be dry shade and you'd need to select plants accordingly. Hydrangeas need a lot of water. Have you got that requirement covered?

Floral, that is the back yard but in that thread i had wanted to add hydrangeas to the left fence line. I decided to plant a row of four sasanqua camellia in that area and it looks great. This area is the right side of the back yard. you can barely see a couple of the hydrangeas in that original picture. I know my picture makes it look intense but the area is actually pretty large and as far as the Formosa goes, i didn't actually count the exact number so my drawing isn't on, i just wanted to show the area that they will be filling. They have been there for a year and doing really well too. The rest of the drawing is pretty accurate. My only large shrubs are the Formosa (purple star) , camellia tree (pink square), hydrangeas (blue circle) and three potential green shrubs (green circles).. most of the plants i show are ferns, different hostas and liriope so they are pretty small. The hydrangeas have been there a year now and bloomed well last year.

Why do you say it will be dry shade? because of the roots underneath ?

OK I went ahead and got wintergreen boxwood. I just love the picture that I originally posted at the top of this thread, so I saw a sale and had to get some.

I'm not loving how much extra room I have in front and behind my camellia, but I know after some time that the camellia will fill in, and hopefully my grass will fill into that corner too.. but still needs more perennials!! :)

Please post photos as it progresses - love to see how things start, and then how they progress over time as they fill in and change.