Pictures please and did you choose the right size container for the rootball of your trees? Repotted in October, they won't need another repot that soon.

The lemon tree came in a 3 gal pot and the orange tree in a sort of sleeve approx 4"X4"X16". I increased the size to a 15 gal pot and a 3 gal pot respectively. I live in zone 8/8A in Southeast Georgia.

Should I add more perlite to the current mixture or change to another medium?

Change to another medium.. search here for 5-1-1... the most popular; next, reduce your pot size; those sizes are way too big for the trees you put in them. Most citrus will grow anew in about 2-3 weeks if you re-pot them into a slightly larger pot; but you will have to wait 2-3 months, if you put them in a notably larger pot.

I live in middle GA (Warner Robins), use Miracle Grow potting mix straight out of the bag regularly for all my plants and have been for over 15 years. I am probably the only one on this forum that uses and likes it. I made 5-1-1 to see what the hype is all about for some fig trees last year. I found it too dry for my comfort level and added more Miracle Grow potting mix to it. I realize now that by using all that bark, it added too much weight for me to lift 20" wide pots and it requires more watering. Almost daily. I absolutely hate the early morning heat in GA so the less watering during the day, the better.

I do not water unless the top 2-3" is dry, new growth has drooped just a little bit, and by feeling the leaves. I have been growing citrus for over 20 years in CA and now here and both locations have very hot summers. I think 511 is good, but I do not want to be tied to my trees over the summer months when I want to go on vacation. My water is metered so the less watering out of the spigot, the better. My area is hot, lots of humidity, plenty of rain, so during the summer I am good to go. I can be gone for a week and not worry about watering while gone. During the winter when the trees are inside, I rarely water. I just check my trees' soil and their leaves. When you have grown certain plants long enough, you know what your tree needs. Many folks treat citrus like a houseplant when they really aren't and over water.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but really it's all about your growing zone and what you feel comfortable with. There are lots of growing mediums on the market so just find something you like. I am going to try Martine Brucheau's (Organics Best Urban Gardening on Youtube) way of growing citrus by using azalea mix (60%), pine bark (35%), coco coir (5%) and perlite. It looks good and his trees look fantastic.

If you go to any citrus FB page or forum, you will see post after post of Meyers dropping their leaves during the winter transition. It happens whenever their environment changes. They will recover. I have a 15 y/o Meyer growing in Miracle Gro potting mix in a cold, dark enclosed sun room and some leaves have dropped. It took a while to do, so I am thinking they are old leaves. Two months later, I have blooms and new leaves growing. If I knew how to post pics here, I would.

Well, Denise, you just seem to be a lot smarter than the rest of us. We defer to your greater experience; but just maybe it is not advice that would work for most of the people here.

5-1-1 is indeed a good mix for growing container citrus trees, especially for new growers, but it requires a lot of attention, epically during the hot months of the year, as the mixture very FREUENTLY will be in need of watering. Many of my citrus trees are planted directly in the ground, but for the container citrus I grow, I primarily use Miracle Grow Garden Soil, and large sized perlite, I guess for somewhere around 30+- years. I personally think it is more about knowledge of growing then it is the medium used. Saying that, whatever medium you choose to use, just be sure it is a rapid draining mixture, that allows about 25% aeration to the tree's root zone. Good luck.

John, I am not smarter. My experience with growing citrus is just different and have been successful at it. Other people use Miracle Grow, they are just not on this forum. Until I joined a citrus group on FB in 2016, I never heard of 5-1-1. People who are fans of 5-1-1 made me feel bad for not converting to that medium, but I have been using Miracle Grow for the majority of my adult life. I am 57. Lots of people like 5-1-1 and that's fine, but there are other ways to grow citrus. I have always lived in hot climates so 5-1-1 doesn't work for ME. If you go to youtube and watch videos of people in the UK, they use sand in their mix. I have been told that sand is not good to use, but if it works, more power to them.

The most advanced citrus growers I know use tensiometers that measure soil moisture; and are connected to computer controlled irrigation systems; but that really does not apply to container trees. Go figger... The most experienced growers here likely have their own systems that work for them; but the newer growers likely will profit from advice that works for most, not just for the more experienced. Personally, I would never use the 5-1-1 mix; but I commonly recommend it here for people who ask. Those of us who have a system that works for us, typically don't ask.

I'm still new to this, use 5:1:1 exclusively, grow year round under lights and have questions about watering too. Recently nearly lost a mandarin because of irrigating issues. I'd been using the two-knuckle-down method to check moisture level and had just switched to checking with skewers which I obviously wasn't doing right. But now I'm back to checking with two knuckles down and that first 2-3 inches is dry and crumbly, immediately below is perfectly moist, and further down very wet- even the NEXT DAY after watering.

When the two finger check tells me when *think* I need to water, I water till it drains through the bottom. I water twice- once about half what I think the plant will need, let it set for 10 min, and then water till it drains. Still getting plants that feel dry as early as the next day. What am I doing wrong? Will I ever get this right?

Somebody told me to pick up the pot after doing a full water to see how heavy it is. When it needs to be watered, the pot will be really really light. It sounds logical. I have done the skewers last summer as recommended, but it didn't work for me. The top of the soil would be dry to the touch, but the skewers showed that the soil in the bottom of the pot was still damp. So now, I let the plant tell me. Nancy, since you use grow lights, look at the new flushes and see how they behave. If they droop at all, water. I came to the realization last summer that if the feeder roots were watered well enough, I was good to go. Again, that is just what my experience has been.

Thanks for the help Denise :-) The smaller pots I can lift but most of mine are an overreach for me to lift. I make sure husband is around when I water the larger pots as they are too big to dump drainage water without him. But he'd be unwilling to lift as frequently as I need to check water needs, or care to learn how containers should feel anyway! And appreciate your suggestion about watching the new flushes, although that got me into trouble with the dry Shiranui a few weeks ago. I would never have guessed that there was a moisture prob as leaves started falling...mostly older ones, and flushes looked ok. But will watch them carefully all the same. Thanks so much :-)

Right now I'm using everything- finger, skewers, observation, even moisture meter. Trying to make a best guess based on all of them. But I'm paranoid esp after poking my finger in and feeling dryness the day after I water.

When you repot a plant after buying it, you also need to be aware that the existing soil may be different from what you are using. Using soil of dissimilar porosity means water will be retained at different rates.

Removing all the existing soil and replacing it with all new material is the fix, but you risk stressing the roots. Some people will only do this ("bare root") at certain times of the year.

Be aware that MG potting and MG soil are 2 different products, and the quality of MG soil can vary based on batch. Some batches drain well, others don't.

Nancy, have you considered putting a pot inside another pot? The bottom pot would not have any holes in it of course. Put something like a brick or two to elevate the planted one. This would solve your drainage problem by not dumping water and provide humidity at the same time if the water just sits. I am doing this with my plants minus the bricks this year in my sunroom. They are still light enough to carry. Anyway I came across this idea because I cannot allow my pots to have physical contact with the soil in the backyard because I have termites and fire ants. I had extra pots waiting for spring upgrading and had to find a way to take my trees outside for some sun off the patio. I just popped the trees into the empty pots and dragged them outside into the sunlight.

Hibiscus, I was guilty of not bare rooting the tree I referred to in my last post, so the soils were dissimilar. Yet this sharp demarkation in soil moisture is apparent in all my trees, ones that I've bare rooted and ones I haven't. Same is true of those that have been in the same soil for a year and those recently potted.

I've tried slowing down the application of water too. Started using a 1.5 liter watering container with a spray spout, so water pours VERY slowly- like 3-5 min for the water container to empty. And then more to make the pot drain. Hoped that by slowing down the application I'd be able to help keep things more evenly wet. It's helped very little.

Maybe it's just a problem growing indoors? I have T5HO lights blasting down on them 12 hours a day since starting on citrus 2 years ago. I have 18 trees now and have only lost a Meyer since then, so they do seem to love the light. It's only because of you all that my trees are alive. Was told that in time I'd get a feel for when to water but after 2 years I'm a long ways away.

Denise. I REALLY like this idea! Thank you. Can really see where this would help. I'll worry less about overwatering too. Going downstairs to set up a few like you describe :-)

"I have done the skewers last summer as recommended, but it didn't work for me. The top of the soil would be dry to the touch, but the skewers showed that the soil in the bottom of the pot was still damp."

That dampness at the bottom of the pot is known as a perched water table and is an indication of an inferior potting medium. The more water retentive the potting soil and with a finer particle size, the higher the PWT will be. Miracle Gro soils are notorious for this, being both excessively water retentive and of too small particles. The coarser, more durable and faster draining the medium, the lower the PWT will be.

The issues with a high PWT means the plant roots could be sitting in wet soil while the top portion of the container is bone dry, encouraging the grower to water more frequently than is advised.

Being able to "read" your plants accurately to understand their watering needs and frequency will certainly help but so will a better potting soil. I would never suggest anyone use a packaged potting soil mix but rather one of the custom mixes like the 5-1-1 or gritty mix. Not only do these packaged mixes exacerbate the conditions I outlined but they will need to be replaced far more frequently due to compression and compaction.

There are commercial mixes that can be purchased, but are generally the "professional" soil-less mixes (typically very high in peat moss and perlite with some vermiculite thrown in for moisture retention).

You pay more, frequently need to buy them in 60lb bails and are marked with phrases like "high porosity" or "optimal porosity".

Typical cautions about peat being an unsustainable resource apply here, etc., etc..

That and soiless mixes, by their nature of being a 'sterile' growing medium, require you to not only provide "fertilizer" but use expensive hydroponic fertilizers (or multiple types of organic fertilizers) to ensure all the required micronutrients are present.

Funkyhat, re: Typical cautions about peat being an unsustainable resource apply here, etc., etc..

You might find this interesting: http://www.gardenmyths.com/peat-peatmoss-true-story/

Gardengal- you may have missed it in my post. I DO use 5:1:1 and on a first name basis with perched water from years ago. Before I changed to 5:1:1.

On the subject of moisture meters: inexpensive 'battery free' meters will read '0' even when placed directly in distilled water because they are not measuring moisture but the difference in electrical conductivity between the two metals on the probe. You can try it yourself, distilled water has no salts in it so there is nothing to measure. Mine shows '0' with distilled water, '5' with tap water and requires adding salt to get it to show 'wet'. This is not your case because as you said your soil was wet at the bottom. You may have excessive evaporation on the high levels of the soil with insufficient water uptake from the lower regions. Maybe root rot, maybe the container is too large. If you do/did have root rot the lower roots are likely the ones to rot first because the bottom remains wettest longest. You can consider a fabric bag pot which will increase evaporation and will help the root zone dry out more quickly. I will leave it to others to indicate if re-potting a third time into a different type container is even a good idea at this point.

Depending on the temperature differences between the root ball an the the "tree" portion this can contribute to slow water uptake. Measure the temperature of your root ball, a digital kitchen thermometer will work perfectly, and see what it is. Temperatures below 55F with a high amount of light can cause leaves to be water stressed (need water, cannot get it quickly enough, leading to drop off).

It's worth noting again that depending on the kind of tree it is some leaf drop when moving from radically different environment conditions (high natural sunlight -> below freezing -> low light indoors -> high light indoors can stress the tree to drop its leaves. As long as the stressor is no longer present it will bounce back

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As for that article on peat, interesting, but I do not find the conclusions drawn by the author to
necessarily follow from the evidence they laid out.

Coconut coir (dessicated coconut husk) has similar aeration and wetting
properties to peat, but is more "sustainable" (there is a large coconut
industry and they need to do something with coconut husks). It holds
onto more moisture and is not as acidic as peat based mediums however.

FWIW: One commercial peat-based
growing medium producer (Pro-Mix) recommends their peat/coconut coir/perlite
mixture for trees/shrubs, another (Berger) suggests instead their bark
based product.

An obvious disadvantage of high peat based mediums is they dry out quickly in the hot summer sun by evaporation since they are so porous. Example: I grow tomatoes in 5gal paint buckets. In the hot (30C) July sun I need to water them every other day if the soil is uncovered. With a plastic bag on top the soil stays sufficiently moist for over 5.

Many thanks for all of the comments. After reading them I've reached the conclusion I need to repot my trees with the mentioned 5-1-1 formula medium. This morning the lemon tree has lost all of its leaves but on. Thanks again, William.

Vladimir, thanks for the peat moss link. Arm chair environmentalists seem to be everywhere these days.

OK, it's been a month since I planted my lemon and orange trees into the ground. The orange tree didn't shed all of it's leaves prior to planting and appears to be putting on new leaves/growth. The lemon tree seems to be responding with new growth on the stems and trunk, however, some of the limbs appear to be dying or dead and remain bear. When planting I used the existing soil from the hole and added no supplements. When/how should I fertilize/supplement them and should I remove the dead limbs from the lemon tree?