Beth....s-l-o-o-o-w.

I hate to make you feel worse but I'm wondering how you paid someone to do that. Did you not see it before writing a check?

What I find with the trades is you have to sit on them every step of the way and stop them if they are doing something wrong. It is painful for them and for me but if I let them do what they plan the result is often no good.

If I miss even one step I often find it was done wrong. But if I am there watching, "discussing", correcting, suggesting then I get an acceptable job. I'm sure they hate me at the end but I'd rather that then end up with a disaster on my hands. And I've had many disasters on my hands when I don't sit on them every step of the way. It seems it never works to walk away and trust them. Even with the babysitting there are still things I end up having to just accept and over look. Annoying for sure.

My advice is don't stress. Cancel the check if you can. Talk to them regarding refund but realize it is just money and hire someone else to get it done. Easier to say then do but stressing about the bad tile job is not good for your health.

Mmmm12 has a good point. Place a stop payment on the check, if that is how you paid. If you used a credit card, dispute the charge. File a complaint with your state contractors licensing board. Go to small claims court.

My advise comes from personal experience. We had a countertop fabrication company ruin $9k worth of quartzite and had to go through those steps to get our money back. We won, and I'm sure you will too. Best of luck to you and I am so sorry you have to go through this stress.

if the grout joints are great than 1/8 of an inch, the installer should have used sanded grout. Also, he or she is professionally deficient. I see this quite often, clients will purchase, as in this case, expensive material. only to save money by using the cheapest installer. It is truly sad. I would ask for entire job to be replaced. labor included. I'm sorry for your troubles.

one more thing. If the installer is reluctant to indemnify you, repair, or reimburse you, you can always refer this to you state license control board.

Florida has some of the most strict contractor licensing laws in the country. Tile, cabinet, and countertop contractors are exempt.

There is always small claims court. Why can’t you get your money back.

"What I find with the trades is you have to sit on them every step of the way" It's unfortunate that folks feel this way. I understand why. This thread is the perfect example. If a professional tradesman were hired this would not be the case. Unfortunately we are flooded with a army of HGTV, You-Tube trained, can't read directions so-called contractors that are the best. Just ask them they'll tell you.

Quick question to Creative Tile- I understand your post about hiring qualified professionals. What is your definition of a "Professional Tradesman"? Not being a smartass, I'm seriously curious. What qualifications do you ask for?

In my area, only Union Trades us the title of "Tradesman". No handyman or remodeler would ever ever use that term. Maybe it's a "regional thing"?

Look for members of trade organizations. Check for actual certifications. A handyman or remodeler is not a specific tradesman. (not to take away from their knowledge) You are looking for someone that specializes in 1 trade day after day. For tile we have CTEF ( Ceramic Tile Education Foundation) We hit 1,300 certified installers last year. That's for the country. It is a actual test. Written & Hands - On. Not like attending a 2 day seminar and now you may say you are factory trained but have never installed a shower or mixed a bag of mortar in your life. (Orange)

Your local high end tile retailers will know who's capable. Same as checking with a lumber yard to find a quality builder. They know who is in the area. You may need to flip them a $20 for the info:) Always go to the source where the tradesman go to get your references. It's tough for consumers. If you find a good tradesman inquire with them as to folks he/she works with in other trades. Important ; Quality people will work together as low quality people will not fit in their group. Same with low quality staying together. A quality person won't associate with them. That's what I have found to be true over the years. Hope this helped.

Creative may respond here, but he is exactly right. And to respond to your question, suedonim75, a couple points. A professional is someone who has many years of experience in their DEDICATED career/trade with a track record of serving their clients with quality results and service. As a side note, most residential tile contractors are no longer Union for many reasons (at least not in our area, although we were a Union contractor for many years), and yes, we still have experienced "tradesmen", just not Union any longer. But that's a different subject. As a homeowner, you have to vet your contractors carefully. Most of these poor tile jobs are not done by dedicated, experienced tile contractors with a track record of quality work. A "handyman" while great for some things, cannot be expected to do all things well. Might be able to install a simple subway tile backsplash. BUT, you want stone instead of tile? You want large format anything? You want a shower? Mosaics? We are a word of mouth kind of business. Nobody hires us that hasn't "heard" about us. They talk to people who know of us, they check out our website, etc. etc. And they are willing to pay for a professional. Had someone call today about a shower. Wanted to know what we would charge. This was an immediate indication that we needed to qualify THEM further, and sure enough, when they described briefly what they wanted done, and we gave them a ballpark (just to see if they were realistic), they immediately said, "oh, that's too much", and were no longer interested, so fortunately we didn't need to waste more time on that. Don't mean to drone on, but it is up to the homeowner to vet the "tradesmen" (although we recently hired a woman apprentice so let's be fair here). We could write a book on this. Final comment, it can be regional, which just makes it a little harder for the customer to FIND that real professional, and be willing to pay for it (once, not twice).

Sorry Creative, responded as you were and your comments are great. As an NTCA member, we are enrolling our new apprentice in the university, for example. Other professional associations are a good place to check as well (such as National Association of Remodeling Industry). And oh so true about referrals from other industry professionals. No high quality trade will refer to someone they don't trust as it is a reflection on them.

"What I find with the trades is you have to sit on them every step of the way and stop them if they are doing something wrong. It is painful for them and for me but if I let them do what they plan the result is often no good."

I'll fire a customer with that attitude. Well, if I'm qualifying my customers properly, I should never have to because I should never have taken the job. My customers are simply not qualified to tell me if what I'm doing is wrong or not.

It amazes me that people who wouldn't dream of telling their surgeon to use titanium pins instead of stainless steel have no compunction about attempting to tell me how to do my job. You get where, when, why, and what; I keep how and who or no Joe for you.

I had a customer put himself on double secret probation several days ago when we were scheduling his sink installation. He needed a day when he would be home so he could "oversee". He's going to oversee my taillights pulling out of his driveway if he opens his mouth again.

Thanks for all the info. I really have only heard that term used when referring to Union skilled trade, so I was curious.

My husband is in the Union Skilled Trades, so I am fortunate to have access to a large pool of skilled workers if I should need one. Both Union and Non-Union.

Be on top of your workers every step of the way...don't you dare look over my shoulder and tell me how to do my job or I won't work with you... Hire the RIGHT person for the job the first time...you didn't empty your bank account to pay for the person? well he wasn't the right person then...

How on earth does the average homeowner navigate this mess?? DIY people, DIY. It might not be perfect but it will damn sure be better than what some of these "professionals" are giving you...I'm still shaking my head at this tile job.

I don't think DIY is the answer. You can't possibly learn enough from a youtube video to get something done nearly as well as someone who's done it 100 times or more. If that's your answer, you automatically limit yourself to the very simplest of installations only, as well as things that don't need to be inspected or permitted.

You can really shoot yourself in the foot when choosing your craftsman. Some people are most concerned about speed. Others cost. Myself, I'm most concerned that we're on the same page with the project. I find myself, over and over again, choosing pros who have an actual interest in what I'm asking them to do. My tile guy? $85/hr. Worth every penny. I'm asking him to do some historical stuff that's a bit off the wall. He, in turn, enjoys the challenge. (Which reminds me that I have to run over some materials to him, because he wants to do a dry fit and some more accurate measurements). Where did I find him? I asked people who I knew had done similar projects. Not just the latest new build, because that's not what I'm after. My KD got all starry-eyed when I laid out my vision for the kitchen. And then started waxing rhapsodic about all the different things we could do.

Another trick - when you've found one pro that you really like and does great work, ask him who HE recommends for another aspect of the project. They don't work in a vacuum, and they often know who is best at other trades.

I suppose my method is to find someone who really loves doing what they do. I listen to them when they offer advice, give them my parameters - and then get out of the way.

Lol Joe....double secret probation!

Call your local 5* tile installer.

I love it! Some gangster tile guy threatening to walk off the job if someone dare to be sure they are getting a good job. Don't be intimidated by these tactics! That is how you end up with this type of job. If you find that they won't or can't answer questions regarding water proofing, layout, materials used etc then don't hire them. If you check and find the water proofing isn't being done to manufacturers specifications then speak up. If you find them using drywall screws and not deck screws or similar for the underlayment speak up. If you find they don't have them spaced close enough speak up. If they lay the tile and it is not even or the cuts aren't right don't let them grout. Be there when they put down the first tiles to check how it is going. If it looks wrong stop them right there. Much easier to correct a problem at this stage then after the whole thing is in and needs to be torn out.

I know it isn't easy to take time off to be there but try to never let these guys work in your house alone, especially on their first job for you. If you have a track record then that is the time to trust. The first job? No way.

And yes I do ask if my dentist is planning to install an emax crown, a metal porcelain crown or a gold crown. If I find it is metal porcelain I do get the metal composition because some are more hypo allergenic and costly than others. Yes I do insist they wear gloves and mask before going in my mouth. Yes I do check to make sure a fresh needle is taken out of a package before someone sticks it in my arm. And if a surgeon were planning to put pins in me I would want to know what type and why they chose that type and not the other type.

In an ideal world Holly Stockley has the right approach. But in our area of the country labor is in very short supply so finding someone for small projects is very hard. You have to take what you can get to do just a shower.

I love it! Some gangster tile guy threatening to walk off the job

are you referring to Joe?

Of course. His customer mentions scheduling the install so he can be there on his day off. This is so threatening to Joe that he has secretly decided to walk off the job if the customer "opens his mouth again". He is not comfortable with the customer seeing his work in progress. If I encounter a person like that I never hire them. If you are qualified then you don't mind customers seeing the work as it progresses. If you are doing everything right and not cutting corners then the customer can relax and look forward to the outcome. If your not, then the customer has the right to make midcourse corrections so the outcome is successful.

We are remodeling and our gc has a tile guy. Our neighbor used them in their remodel and mentioned this was the best tile guy in the world. In our contract it spells out the tile guy cost $75/hour, and we were, well, shocked as that seems so high. And it specified he had 16 hours (or something like that) for the job. It seemed like way to long.

We have had several tile projects, and the first one this guy did, I did 'oversee', b/c you never know. OMG, he is perfect. He takes f o r e v e r, but it is flawless. And you don't have to babysit. he is worth $75/hour for perfection. Truly skilled.

Having Joe come do your tile is like hiring Vera Wang to make your wedding dress. (maybe a bit over dramatic, lol). Most of the time he is fixing eff-ups from other contractors, so the customer is best to stand back and zip their lips.

Joseph Corlett - I’m glad my workers didn’t walk off the job when I pointed out that they didn’t move the shower pipe when they extended my shower. If I still wanted to hit my elbows on the wall, I would have left the shower the same size. And yes, they were licensed with good references but, even so, were looking for shortcuts.

mmmm12:

I have ways of dealing with these types. The other day I assigned a customer to remove the disposal flange from his old sink to use on his new. If this took me longer than three minutes, I would throw my tools off the Sunshine Skyway Bridge and follow them in. He puttered around for a half hour in complete bliss.

Somehow, I was able to get his new sink in without his supervision:

I've had at least 4 under mount sinks installed. Never had to supervise that type of work either. It seems to go OK without any input from me. But that isn't the type of work I was talking about. I was talking about detailed work like tile install. The fact is when you hire a contractor you have no idea if they will live up to their reputation until you actually observe what they do. I stand by what I said about making sure it goes well. I'm old and when younger I also trusted professionals with good reputations who said the right things. Experience has taught me not to trust but to observe.

Edit: Actually I take that back. I did have one problem with an undermount sink. The guy accidentally bumped the water shutoff valve while he was under there working. I did not crawl into the cabinet after the sink was installed so did not know a slow drip was going until the next day when I found a large puddle in the basement which also ruined a nice wood table. Putting the new faucets in was not part of the project (just custom granite tops and undermount sinks) because my husband always does the plumbing. Another example of where I should have checked the work afterwards. The leak was so slow that we couldn't even see it at first until we touched the base of the cabinet and found it was wet.

Sigh...second Edit: I just remembered, same guy also used brown caulk between the undermount sink and granite. Also used brown caulk between the granite back splash and counter surface. Both looked horrible. Had to take it out and replace with clear.

A thousand likes for you mmmm12..... I am so in agreement. I’ve also been around this mountain a few times myself. It’s interesting that many of the Pros on this site encourage everyone to do their homework (they insist it’s the homeowners responsibility to make sure every i is dotted and every t crossed - most of the time they get castigated for not doing so), and then you have one criticize a person for being careful to make sure they are getting exactly what they’re paying for.

I have learned that you cannot trust ANYONE no matter what the reputation or recommendation (you’d be foolish to do so). I have seen the best of them do things incorrectly or have a lapse in judgement and make an error. There is no way I can know that someone can be trusted to do quality work until I see with my own eyes they can actually do it.

The above comment about "not having to supervise that type of work, I meant detailed work like tile installation" rubbed me the wrong way. All work is detailed work, although the details are different. Imagine if Joe Corlett didnt measure carefully and ended up with the sink cutout not square to the countertop or the back rail not parallel with the front of the countertop. But I wouldnt worry about that because his eye is going to be better than mine for such details anyway. If it passes his inspection, it will pass mine. Work that isnt openly visible is no less important because the best tile jobs are on properly prepared surfaces and those surfaces are right because the framing underneath them has been inspected, squared, and shimmed as needed.

Not everyone can afford an $85 per hour tile guy and not every project merits an expert. The important thing is to pair higher quality of materials with more skilled workers. One problem I have seen with price conscious clients is that they have a budget for the project, not a separate budget for labor and materials. First, they fall in love with some expensive materials and blow most of the budget. Then they try to find someone to install the pricey material for less because they have already spent more money than planned. If you are working with $4 sq ft tile, you dont have so much to lose and can afford to risk a less than perfect result with a $25 an hour tile guy (cash only please). If you are using $20+/sq ft material, expect to pay more for the labor. Cheap guys arent going to have the expensive tools to do a high quality job.

Lyndee Lee,

You are right I shouldn't have said that. I won't go back and delete it so as not to put your comments out of context.

Last night I was remembering all the granite install problems I had with the custom counters and sinks I mentioned above. They brought the middle piece with a different orientation to the pattern to the two end pieces. Their comment was that they didn't think the granite had an orientation. And it didn't. Until they put on color enhancing sealer and all of a sudden the granite that I had so carefully picked out to not have any type of pattern/orientation and specific colors changed color completely and now had an orientation. I had asked them to seal it. Not to put color enhancing seal on it.

I didn't ask for it all to be replaced, just the piece that was the wrong orientation. Also the reason they used the brown caulk was that there was a large gap between the back splash and the counter. One of the two was curved, either the counter or the back splash. They tried to hide it with the brown caulk. When we sent pictures to the owner they recut the backsplash and came to install it. But that did not solve the problem. I was on the phone with the owner and suggested we cut the back splash right behind the faucet and put a seam there. We also cut it right at the gap and put a seam there. They did a nice job with the seam and a little black sharpie camouflaged it further. This solved the gap problem. I could have insisted they recut the whole thing but it wasn't a battle worth taking on because you never know what will happen in a redo. The sinks were already installed and we did not want to wait to get the use of our bathroom counters back.

Hi DG,

OMG, your tile is horrible!

Sounds like you're being a good sport, better than me!

So sorry, ugh.

What have you decided to do?

Your pics are like driving by a horrible accident, I can't stop looking.

All of this intense scrutiny does need to happen. On the front end. Before you hire anyone.

If you hire the right person, all you need to do is nip in once a day, have a progress report, and take some in progress pictures for your remodeling scrapbook. You don’t need to stand there with a stopwatch and magnifyer.

The other thing that needs to happen is that you set realistic expectations on the front end. $1.98 guys give $1.98 work. If they could do better, they’d be the $9.98 guys. Or the $99.98 guys.

The #1 common denominator on 98% of the Tile Disaster threads is the ridiculously low price paid for the work. The #2 common denominator is the lack of knowledge of exactly what the tile guy was going to do for that money. No design documentation. No manufacturers instructions given to them by the installer, or even searched for by the homeowner.

If you shop for the lowest price instead of the highest skills, you may be cursed to find exactly that.

Once again, Sophie Wheeler has a realistic answer. Just like many disaster projects, the issue isn't always the work itself but the expectations of the buyer and the seller don't match. Buyer wants to pick price, schedule and quality and isnt realistic about the tradeoffs. For any given task, the buyer can choose one primary factor and make smaller decisions considering the second factor but the third factor is going to cause headaches. Different projects call for different priorities but realize which set of issues will bother you the most and choose accordingly.

If best quality is desired, be prepared to pay more money and wait for an opening. If price is the primary consideration, either the quality is poor, as in bad tile job number zillion and three, or the schedule is going to be an issue, as in my contractor tore out the shower and hasn't been seen for a month. I know some guys who do nice quality work at a very reasonable price but they have limited work hours and completion date is by Christmas...perhaps, or perhaps it is Christmas 2019.

There are many reasons that people who do quality work aren't in the $9.98 range. Many times they have some bad habits, legal or illegal, and possibly are dealing with the consequences of past decisions. Some of them dont have transportation, and may not have quality tools. The person might have a primary employer and just moonlight as a tile setter or have family or health problems that limit hours or leave them suddenly unable to continue. Maybe they are semiretired or a snowbird that is going to leave the area for months at a time. For some projects, the quality and price combo is so hard to beat that you can wait for them to do the work. Just don't hire that person to do the only bathroom in the house. Likewise, if schedule and price are more important than quality, dont use expensive materials or turn them loose in an important space. If the project is a basement bathroom or a midrange rental property, you can compromise on the quality to get the job done.

Pay attention to the problem we as a country have with young people entering the trades.

Got an estimate from a tile installer to redo the floor and shower floor...

After reading this thread. How did the re-do go? And were you able to get any money back from the original tile guy, or hopefully you held half the money before completion and approval.

I agree that Florida has a very real problem with incompetent tilers. I wish there was a way to get the word out and I wish the industry pros could help mentor and train the incompetents. With all the new products, even old-timers have trouble.

467181pbj, This is going to be a "rave", so apologize but I see this thread has come up again. A great deal is being done to train and mentor the young, as well as to continually educate the experienced. As an "old timer" I am quite committed to "passing it on". It's a responsibility I have to my craft and to future generations. In recent years, the NTCA has increased their education offerings (we have two apprentices in their "University" right now), and we are thankful for that help. The CTEF (Ceramic Tile Education Foundation), in cooperation with NTCA, and others, has also come a long way in training and certification efforts (as Creative mentioned earlier in this thread). I am enrolled in one right now which, even as an old timer I feel I need to do if I'm going to walk the talk. I don't need that certification to market my skills, but to set an example for the youngins, demonstrate support for the industry, and of course, hone my skills given the new products and technology available. There's always something new to be learned, and that's a good thing. Now, there are other factors involved and I'll share a link to an old thread for further reference as I end this monologue here. There are not enough young people entering the trades (all trades). High schools have abandoned many of the technical training programs if favor of traditional college prep. In our area, there are incentives for them to do so as "how many students went on to colleges" is factored in their ranking. This is a public and societal problem that we in the trades are burdened with but not empowered to change on our own. Some local training programs are available for youth, often in the "at risk" category. This is great, but our applicants need to pass drug tests, know basic math, demonstrate a history of good character and judgement, and be willing to work hard and take their development seriously. We work in many people's homes and who we bring into that home must past the muster. And then, we must also comply with all laws and regulations. Do you have any idea what worker's compensation insurance costs for a tile setter (as one example)?? Many "independents" get around paying for it (another long story). It is hard to hear about the problems people have with tile installations. It is also unfair to blame the trade itself. And as a small contractor, I cringe when I see the comments about the contractors not caring, or just out to make a buck. We live a simple life and are saving right now so my wife can go to the eye doctor (don't even talk to me about health insurance). I have nothing but respect and appreciation for my many clients who keep myself and my employees working and challenged (and pay that monthly bill without question). I would find it interesting to know what the homeowners here on HOUZZ think they should pay per hour for a quality tile contractor (by region). Some of the problem lies there as well. We will just keep doing our part. Here's a few checklists for homeowners when hiring a tile contractor: https://www.tcnatile.com/images/pdfs/TCNABulletin_ChoosingYourTileContractor.pdf

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

Here's an old thread regarding this issue that many weighed in on:

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/why-all-the-tile-related-dramas-pt-1-dsvw-vd~4184710?n=12[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/why-all-the-tile-related-dramas-pt-1-dsvw-vd~4184710?n=12)

"I agree that Florida has a very real problem with incompetent tilers."

Really?

Small claims court.
Next time, hire a professional and get a signed guarantee in writing.

This link did not exist at the time this thread started. If you took the time to read this thread check out the link below.

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

Week old marble... is there a way to buff out these scratches? Probably should have stuck with porcelain ...

D G....from what I understand, there are companies that will come and polish your floors back to nice and shiny.

I've posted this before...it's still true. Check out the local "taverns / bars" (small independent dumps are best). Look for beat-up work pickups - about 3 pm. Walk in and smile...at everyone. Grab a beer and chat...buy a round. (I'm female and I did it.) The local tradesmen will KNOW who does the best tile jobs. When they tell you "So and so is good...but he's kinda expensive", THAT's the guy you want to hire.

DG, yes. get a stone restoration guy. I've had my marble floor done and it looks brand new.

that's only a week old? was it laid and then worker continued to walk on it ?? just curious what gouged that grout. does the entire floor of grout look that rough? not the best job.

No just that one patch I don’t know why it’s like that..... I think a vacuum went over this floor (my cleaning lady) never a dull moment

oh yeah,,no vacuum on marble floors. the brushes and wheels will really mess it up badly. I have to use a broom or keep the vacuum on a rug while I use the hose attachment to suck up the hair and dust.

.

geez too late for that, also I feel the tile is turning color from getting wet? Is that normal?

Marble is porous. Just a hard sponge on your floors and walls. It cannot be made waterproof. Which is why the waterproofing system that is used under the marble is critical. What system did your tiler use? Do you have in progress pictures of the second install?

get your money back from whoever did this