One old home I bought had all its floors covered in what looked like used theatre lobby carpeting, sans cleaning. Confirmed by the neighbours! Just one more job for the reno guys.

I also had to swear that I wasn't a builder as they wanted to preserve "their" home as it was forever. I sent it to landfill a few years later.

People have different tastes and budgets in life........

ncrealestateguy,

Matters since my plan might be as well not to redo anything, but just to repair. Maintenance wise. Or if to redo-my redoing just becomes longer.

DIY (or any other as far as I can say) renos weren't present there for years that particular property was lived it..were done specifically for resale. Within the last week before the property went to market. Feels like double work, wasteful, and frankly not safe.

I don't know for example whether these particular cabinets won't cramble under that heavy granite. Nothing to do with high expectations. Normal expectations and safety concerns. If somebody more knowlegeable will tell me "hey these 50 years old cabinets that are attached to the wall all together, no separate boxes(forgot the right term), will continue to stand safely under that heavy granite" maybe I'll be less concerned.

The laminate they luckily ran over tile, or so it appears..easier fix..why? because "younger people like you might not like the color of the tile".

Younger people like me(lol) don't want a moisture problem in the bath, first and foremost..the color of the tile is kinda secondary.

Well at least the tile is there.

If you read through the thread I linked to-you'll see my expectations are very reasonable. I'm a nice buyer everybody wants lol. I'm also venting here which I guess is a proper way to talk through one's frustrations. I didn't go around the house loudly pointing on every..insert your own word.

I understand every house needs, or will need tending to, sooner or later, and don't expect old poorly maintained condo to be something else. Why people spend effort and money of making me think it's something else, with the very bad opposite result-that's a pity.

Well obviously things like location etc will be decisive ones. But that ..whatever they did there is very annoying. And it looks very bad too. One doesn't need glasses. Or to be a very particular person.

So. The owner spent his money, and I will need to spend double money, because he spent his, and there's not much common sense in that. Not to him not to me.

summersrhythm they obviously do, no arguing about that

nothing in my post was about taste though. Common sense and quality of work and whether needed to be done at all.

They I guess did want to appeal to some prevalent taste, so their photos look okay "for younger buyers like me" lol

The house looks very different from the photos.

Why? Because nowadays people are in the mindset that they have to "fix it up" to sell it -- you can even see this is some of the "panic-y" posts on this board (Help! My walls are grey! Will anyone buy my house?). Sure, some things should be fixed, but anything will sell *if priced appropriately* - heck a shack in the woods will sell if the price is right. I agree -- leave as-is instead of doing a half-*ss job.

I agree with NCRealEstate guy and also, no one is forcing anyone to buy a house with poorly-done renovations, or supposedly well-done renovations for that matter. I understand your frustrations with shoddy work, but I just put it behind me and move on, someone else will like it or they won't care and will redo it themselves.

The OP is just highlighting all the wasted money and effort put into pre-sale fixups that are often counterproductive. IOW, forget the "improvements". Clean and declutter!

In our tight market, it totally stinks to encounter an otherwise fine place with crap "renovations" and an inflated price. The some other, better place might not come along again for months! I would prefer clean and decluttered and a slightly lower price.

I'm more of the thought of "who cares". Yes from some buyers perspective money was wasted, creating more expense for a buyer.

As a buyer, I don't know the lifestyle of the seller, I can't know or judge their intentions. Some houses look horrible to me, only to have the house sell quickly for top dollar. Different people want and expect different things. The old, "you can't please everybody" type of thing.

Most people on this forum have a higher degree of interest in housing than much of the general population or they wouldn't be on this forum. I see no reason to criticize those who have less "knowledge" or "eye for quality" than others.

That's true. I guess another thought is that we buyers have no idea what the "before"may have looked like. Maybe it was truly worse than the refreshes. Maybe I think I would have been able to see past old, dirty, smelly whatever, but maybe I cannot. Our agent has sometimes been able to pull up listings from a home previously, so then I can see what the "before" was like. Or some listings have lingered for so long that they make changes to try and get the place to see, and then I can see what was done (typically it's to remove some interior walls and make the kitchen a little more bling-y). For me, I guess if it's not in a location I desire then it doesn't matter either way (that was the case w/the lingering home that eventually underwent wall removal).

I don't see much benefit in knowing what the "before" looked like, we can only buy the now.

I recently looked at a large five bedroom house with a newly remodeled, but small kitchen, it was odd for an over 6000 sq ft house. I commented on this to the agent who told me the owners had opened a wall to the family room (removing cabinets) to give it an open concept. I then understood why the kitchen was small but already knew I'd need to replace that wall getting more cabinets for my lifestyle. I didn't get angry at the seller, I just computed costs to make the house mine.

I also frequently look for previous listings, first to see when they bought and what they paid, then look at the pictures to see what improvements they made. I didn't get angry about one sellers "Las Vegas style black and white with red accents" master suite. I just knew I'd need to change it.

stinks to encounter an otherwise fine place with crap "renovations" and an inflated price

This is what I'm thinking also. Consistent with this last year a small crappy rambler (car port for instance consisted of a flat plywood roof and two 2 x 4 s) near me was bought for 370, razed and redone to look much fancier, sold for nearly 740! (Bigger places in the vicinity, that are decent but haven't been given new faces are still going for only 500 or 600 something at this time).

I was told by a "flipper" other than the one who undertook this project that "they did a really good job on it", and that was how they got 740. Yet I wasn't impressed by the new landscaping at all* and one of my tenants has observed recently that "the right kind of wood wasn't used for the outside of the garage, and is failing already".

*I realize this isn't what most people look at or value, but still if they went for a cheap, flashy effect for this what might that possibly say about their general approach?

Seeing the before satisfies my curiosity :-) A recent example was a home I was interested in, except it had a couple places where drywall and flooring was missing AND the kitchen was not intact. It turned out that, for unknown reasons, the sellers had removed both fireplaces and the kitchen. And filled in a pool. I don't know why they did these things, but I was glad to know about the filled pool because I wouldn't want to buy a property with something like that in the backyard. It wasn't removed, just maybe drilled for drainage and filled in. Filled in with what I wonder (fireplaces and kitchen perhaps?).

No one is forcing me to buy anything (except my conscience lol)

Poor analogy, maybe-but, no one is also forcing me say, to buy Ibuprofen in a pharmacy. And if I buy it I realize it might have side effects, or I might develop an allergy(I'm that lucky person who develops allergies to strangest things ever), or it won't help anyway because what I have is a migraine and Ibuprofen alone won't cut it. And I'll need to run for Sumatriptan.

Yet still with all that rich knowledge of various possibilities-I kinda still expect Ibuprofen to be Ibuprofen ..:) in that bottle from a pharmacy

I'm not mad at the seller. I'm upset. Takes more to make me mad. (or less lol. but this situation is not a reason to be mad. yet)

I'm kinda upset for the seller too. For all I know he might have gotten bad advice, or payed to somebody who was hacking the job to the highest degree. He might be upset himself for all I know.

I can't describe to you properly what's going on there, one needs to be in the house to see that. It's not about taste, not about lifestyle, not about an eye for quality, even not about any eye. Unless one's blind he'll see it.

If it was just old paint that was peeling for example, or very old paneling-I'd understand that much more. People have different lifestyles, circumstances, priorities..life gives them things to deal with. Not everybody has interest, or money, or skills, or health, or even normal mood to be in, to do it all, to do it right, etcetera. Maybe one has more important stuff to tend to and to take care of. Who am I to judge. For me, there's no shame in that..life happens.

But here we have gallons spent of new paint that already doesn't adhere, two days after it was applied..new granite over really old cabinets (I had a situation in my family when improperly installed kitchen crumbled..with my Mom being in the kitchen..you probably realize that experience made me more nervous about possible scenarios in a kitchen)..laminate put where it's not supposed to be in the first place..so much waste, and what for?

if somebody tells me "but the pictures brought you to see the house"-that might be correct for many buyers, but incorrect for us-the address on the map brought me to see the house:) I'm extremely locked...location-wise. I'm also not looking at it for myself but for somebody near and dear. So I actually assume responsibity here, even more so than if I'd be looking for myself. Of course I want things to be safe. If he put new laminate on top of the cabinets-would be more reasonable way dealing with whatever was there and desintegrated. Or let me put that laminate. Or let me decide what to do with the kitchen. But don't create something that signals potential disaster going to happen. Right, maybe some other buyers won't pay attention to that, being less experienced. How it's good for them, in the long run?

" I didn't get angry at the seller, I just computed costs to make the house mine."-well..from money standpoint, we'll be ok. If we decide to go with it, and if it passes inspection. We also can compute, and all that. It'll be a good price.

But I'd pay exactly same price if he didn't do anything too. And if you saw the house you'd also do that. Or maybe you wouldn't buy the house at all.

So I try to understand-how this very poorly done partial reno influenced things, in terms of his money, our money, anything at all?

I think it didn't. It just put him though more hassle and spending , and will do exact same thing to us.

OK..very tired righ now, so hopefully I'm making sense.

Ah..and I see an interesting thing..observation to make..Home Decorating forum had their idea about the post.."Buying and Selling"-have their ideas...I wonder if I put it in "Remodeling" forum too lol..will the responses differ?

(for whoever doesn't know yet that I sometimes write long illegible posts-I apologize for my long illegible post))

"I don't need your granite."

Amen. The only thing I dislike more than granite is glass vessel bathroom sinks. Many houses have both.....

I'm building a side account to undo whatever ill advised non-sense upgrades we encounter in the next house we buy.

I also dislike the vessel sinks and the granite...well, I guess I might not dislike the granite if it's something amazing but, usually, it's not.

April I like your long posts, they are really heart-felt and I think you have a lovely writing style.

The house across the street had an industrial trash hauler sitting in the drive for almost a year. After recently touring the house during an Open House I am hard-pressed to figure out what they did to improve anything. They might have ripped out the carpet in the enormous family room and installed the most gaud-awful cheap wood flooring one can imagine. But, beyond that, I can't figure why they are asking the price they are. Old, old, old.

I really, really doubt that the granite is going to cause the cabinets to collapse.

For those who do not like granite, what is your preference?

We have been house shopping lately and we have been shocked by how many obvious flips are out on the market. The pictures look great but once you see the house in person it's obvious that the workmanship and materials lack quality and attention to detail. I would much rather find a home that the owner(s) have improved and maintained over time with quality remodeling that was made to last. Hasty last minute changes are obvious and not appealing to me in any way.

I think in many cases these sellers are receiving bad advice, whether it's from their realtors or their friends and family or TV. When we were looking for a realtor to list our home, we interviewed several. One advised us to do all sorts of cheap "fixes" throughout the home, including painting the bathroom tile (!), painting countertops (!) and numerous other ridiculous suggestions that were intended to photograph well but any knowledgeable buyer would see right through. Needless to say we did not work with this realtor. Instead we chose a realtor who recognized the quality of the remodels we had done and knew how to showcase what was good about the home.

I like Corian best. It's not popular, I know. Some granite is so brown...some is amazing, but much of what I'm seeing is brown or black/brown. I like Corian or the stone/resin products because they come in better colors.

In my budget, where I live, the IRL granite I'm seeing is NOT beautiful like what the TKO folks install on the Kitchen Forum.

"Seeing the before satisfies my curiosity :-)"

Yea, I was curious about my house too, and I was able to locate an old photo of the exterior of the house on the 'net taken a handful of years ago last time it was for sale. What a difference a good siding and window job makes - yowza! Some of things the purchaser did are not the greatest but are minor (and dude was a *terrible* tiler!), but the "big stuff" is well done - exterior siding, roof, Anderson windows (gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous wood-trimmed windows), kitchen remodel; I remember standing in the kitchen and got that "this is my house" feeling. So, I can overlook the butt-ugly paint, bad tile job (fortunately there's little tile in the house), and minor cosmetic stuff until finances allow uprgrades and decorating.

But...I paid for all these upgrades - they were reflected in the purchase price; I would not have paid what I did were it not for the quality workmanship and items, I can see right though shoddy workmanship and poor quality. We are not in the point in our lives where we want a fixer-upper, but plenty of people are - price it accordingly, and it WILL sell.