Amen!

Yep April I have seen some doozies as well. I wish I would have saved the picture but I looked at a townhouse with son where the seller painted (very badly) everything in the kitchen WHITE. And, I kid you not, even the countertop. The pathetic thing was that those flat panel cabinets were sound and might have been somewhat useable after a good cleanup until a remodel was in the budget. Funny enough though it looked ok in the pictures. In real life a tiny flutter of a flew fly wing took the paint off. I would say it was all painted with primer but it wasn't as hardy as that.

OMG, yes! We've been looking for an old cottage to renovate and we're constantly seeing things like this;

and of course they want a premium because it's "renovated." (ETA The stuff that looks like blobs of mirror mastic is mirror mastic--it appears that's how they installed the tile.)

Just last week I went to look a listed foreclosure--some fool had decided to disembowel the whole house ala Fixer Upper (presumably to cash in on the absurd prices this area fetches now), and evidently tore everything out before finding out what it costs to build a whole new house in the shell, so walked away. Only problem was, I guess those shows don't teach the concept of "load-bearing wall," because those were all gone, too. No jacks, no brace, no nothing, just the poor outer walls trying to stay up on their own.

I think many people are more impressed with crappy renovations than they are able to envision what an outdated space might be. Which drives sellers to do odd “improvements.” It’s why staging helps —people don’t have to imagine anything, they can see it,

when we bought our home, the sellers had done a terrible job of changing all the dark brown stained trim to white....it’s been a bit of a mess to replace and/or sand it and do it right. And we had exactly the situation with a zillion pound corian double sink counter on an aged vanity cabinet; the gold faucets were really sticking lipstick on a pig...

Oh my Writer! That is so wrong. I guess they had leftover floor tile to throw on the damaged wall they took the original tile off?

April yes yes yes and YES! We're still house-hunting and the flips/renos are sooooo disappointing. I don't want to pay for that.

We looked at a house that was not quite ready for market and the owners had old dogs and there was pee on the carpet everywhere. It was disgusting. We went back a week or two later and they had replaced it with cheap carpet.

Neither floor situation was optimal but from a marketing perspective, the clean cheap carpet was better than filthy, stinky carpet. Someone looking at the house after we saw it may have thought the new carpet was a waste.

We bought the house, pulled out the cheap carpet and gave it to Habitat. We would have bought the house either way. New carpet or stink carpet.

I wonder if the cheap renos do make a house sell more quickly. I think GW users aren't really representative of the average home buyer.

I think people are taking advice about staging (whether from their realtor, a forum, or whatever) and most of that seems to translate into cheap and easy cosmetic 'fixes.' Since most people search online before choosing to visit a house in person, it can be all about the pictures.

I'm with you all... I'd so much rather do my own fixes my own way! And preserve any lovely old details that may still exist, if there are any.

Or who knows, maybe they want to avoid doing what I'm doing. I started a project to rebuild my front porch, with the intention of getting rid of some potential objections for resale. (The columns were rotting at the bottom.) I hired an architect, then a builder, then a landscaper, then someone to fabricate railings, then picked a new front door and new windows for the front room... Now I'm over my original $40k budget and in love with my (still in progress) front porch renovation, so I'll probably stay longer! (I'm an empty nester widow with 2 kids in college... I don't need 4+ bedrooms for me and the dog.) So, yeah, that's me. Not the one for cheap and easy cosmetic fixes.

I guess they had leftover floor tile to throw on the damaged wall they took the original tile off?

Actually, I doubt there was anything wrong with the original tile, but it was probably (gasp!) colored, maybe even pink. Oh, the horror! The kitchen was even worse, but it doesn't show in pics.

"just the poor outer walls trying to stay up on their own."-okay can I steal this too? I find it very existential ..))

I've been house hunting and can soooo relate. My realtor and I have reached the point of laughing at the kitchens. It's amazing what people think a piece of granite and the cheapest possible stainless steel appliances will compensate for. Oh my. Good thing the lighting always sucks or it would really look bad.

A little detour on this subject but justerrilynn touched on the crux of the issue. Most home buyers are not educated in the least about what really matters in a house and as we've discussed here ad nauseam, they have HGTV dreams in their heads. This is where realtors can do an enormous service for uneducated buyers and for the housing market in general. But first the realtors have to become more than mere salespeople and I know that will ruffle some feathers. Of course there are realtors who have a enough of a working knowledge about houses and systems to be of great assistance to their buyers and sellers but that's not the norm in my experience.

There were so many flooded homes after Harvey. At least most of them should have the wet and muck pulled out and everything dried up before anything more happened (I hope so), Many people are still working slowly to do what they can without insurance or while dealing with claims battles, but others who could left their homes and sold to investors and flippers. Some of them know what they are doing and some don't. Some will be responsible and some won't. I am concerned that the fact that homes flooded could be the least of the issues, at least for some of these.

She did practical stuff instead of interior fluff and had to greatly reduce her price after spending a lot on the right stuff.

And therein lies the answer to April's "why you" questions.

I think DLM (among others) is exactly right -- but I bet there are a lot of buyers who, when they hear anything they don't want to hear....just move on to a different realtor. So a realtor may speak truth, but lose customers who just don't want to hear it.

I am a now retired (20 yrs) Realtor. Show someone a 400K house and if they don't like something they say "we can change that". Show first timers a 100K house and they say "we hate the wall colors". That's why flippers and/or people in the lower price range do a home depot makeover.

This is where realtors can do an enormous service for uneducated buyers and for the housing market in general.

While I've never been a realtor, it's true pretty much across the board that, as an old colleague of mine used to say, "People don't want to be educated. They want to be right," so we would smile and nod at the insanely ridiculous things they said to us, too. I wouldn't put this on realtors. They have enough to do teaching people about the buying and selling process as it is.

Part of the issue is what people’s situation is when purchasing. If you’re a first time home buyer you aren’t going to have a lot of extra funds for repairs when you probably saved forever for the down payment. Or if you’re a family with little kids, you want to move into something that’s turn key because living in a renovation with kids can be nightmarish. I agree there are some really poor presale renovations. We’ve seen quite a few. But there are also people who have done a nice job as well. You need to know what to look for and not get your head turned by a nice decorating job. When we sell our current house I’ll repaint some spaces (mostly because I can’t get the kids “drawings” to come off) and get the carpet cleaned. That’s it. We live in an area with a really low amount of houses on the market so things move fast. Would we be able to get more money with some changes? Probably. But I can’t stand the waste of someone tearing out new stuff because it’s not their taste.

Before you can sell your house you have to get potential buyers in the front door to look at it. I suspect that's one reason why quick cosmetic fixes and staging have become so common. It's a rare buyer who doesn't start her house search on Zillow.

cheezewhiz I agree with you. What I saw-it's not about taste. At all. On the contrary. It was done to appeal to some prevalent taste I guess. But it was done so bad, unsafe, and so much is still left to do if one wants to be able to take a normal shower without huge mold problem developing. And to simply take a normal shower since frankly one door doesn't close, and the other one is loose in the frame. You don't need to be some seasoned buyer to see that one. And it's okay, I mean it's an old house that wasn't maintained its best.

Yet it costs serious money because everything's here is expensive.

And maybe the price is even fair, given the location.

It probably reflects work to be done.

But because of his renovation a buyer now has double work to do. Not because of taste.

I'm not bashing everybody and their aunt. Some people do decent jobs; some just clean and freshen the paint. I'm under very recent impression of a particular property. I might be that poor buyer. Lol. And yes, I'm restricted in my choices.

No, it's not great decorating job either lol. It's just bad on all levels. The only thing it does-looks kinda okay on the photos. The moment one in the house one will see it. It's in your face so to say.

He spent money, and a buyer will still spend double money.

Leave it as is! Say it was bad-and he, with his choices-that-make-zero-sense just made it worse.

When I was a young home buyer, I was guided on what the big ticket items were, what was going to cost me over the long haul and what were easy changes or eventual changes. But you can only do so much, especially if folks don't want to hear it.

While we were redoing my sister's former home (had to -- some of the flooring was ripped out and there were paint samples painted on the walls plus other issues when she got stuck with the house in her divorce), her neighbor was also putting on a new roof. They replaced the entire HVAC system including ducting (my sister replaced the furnaces -- AC portion was newer). From a structural-mechanical standpoint, their house appears to have been looked over in as good a shape as my sister's. But they have 2 different wood floors plus carpet downstairs, the FR has 3 non-matching upholstered recliners in a row. Most of the windows have 30+ yr old looking valances and the master bath still has the faded pink floral wallpaper. A little paint and staging would go a long way to making that downstairs flooring the only big issue to overcome -- and before the weather warms and the lack of a pool becomes an issue for many families. Not putting in $15-25K to make the house look more updated has their house on the market $90K below where my sister's was listed and on the market 115 days while my sister's had an offer day 1 and closed with a cash sale in 10. Admittedly, Harvey had an impact - slowed our progress and made it a bit riskier, but it also has folks who have any choice not looking for major projects. What is true generally is even more true here.

I see a lot of posts here where someone is asking what granite to put in, and their cabinets are 10 seconds away from collapse. I bite my tongue (sometimes, lol) because you won't change their mind. They think that gray counters will magically improve their 1980's contact paper covered cabinets. It won't, neither will slopping on a coat of gray paint.

This I get has a different bent but still, I think it is fed by buyers wanting Renovated/up to date. I am told banks will no longer allow an allowance for the buyer to make these decisions after they buy. It is forcing sellers to make choices they have no stake in and most are not going to go the extra mile to make everything as they would want it. Sad, I suppose but true. Perhaps the person painting the paneling really didn't know just how bad it would look in a few weeks? Lets hope. Perhaps the granite buyer was unaware their cabinets would not be up to the scrutiny of the next person who came along. Cabinets are a pretty permanent feature for most people. I am not so sure everyone notices what you notice. Except for DISGUSTING carpet, I think most updates/freshening to sell should be held off and made by the buyer. 99% of the time no matter what paint color I choose they will repaint!! That wasted time and money drives me insane. I would much prefer a seller concentrate on CLEANING and REPAIRING. The rest of what I don' t like I will fix myself.

I hope our experience is like cheezewhiz, when we sell in a year or so. We built our house in the early 90s, and we have not updated because it has not been a priority. If we were staying, I probably would do some. But aside from the kitchen counters, which even I hate (4x4 tile), I hope to do very little upgrading. Everything is clean and in good repair. I know that no matter what I would choose, it will end up in a dumpster. Why bother? What's here is livable, I am repainting in a neutral color. I believe it would be fine for someone, until they decide what they want. And our market is tight, very little inventory. Things are selling fast. Will we get the tippy-top dollar? Maybe not. But our Realtor is top notch, so hopefully we'll get the most with the least.

"Perhaps the person painting the paneling really didn't know just how bad it would look in a few weeks? Lets hope. Perhaps the granite buyer was unaware their cabinets would not be up to the scrutiny of the next person who came along. Cabinets are a pretty permanent feature for most people. I am not so sure everyone notices what you notice."

Arcy, it's the same person..:) The house went on a market two days before we came(we called the moment I saw it), and the agent told us he spent three weeks clearing the house. I think it was painted within last week. I didn't understand at first it's painted paneling..you have vertical cracks along the wall..

Cabinets are very permanent to me too, believe me. Or I believe they should be. It's woodwork; they should be able to stay for 50 years. But looking at these cabinets-some cabinets can probably, and some, really make one worry they'll crumble under that granite. They're attached to the wall ..oh I don't remember the correct terms..just altogether you know? No separate boxes. Less support maybe? If they weren't so old, or weren't topped with granite-I'd worry less. Yes, he painted them white( but of course) Well what do I care? I care for safety you know. The color is really secondary. Maybe someone here is more knowlegeable, and will tell me "it's fine, these cabs will stand another ten years with that granite on top".

I'm not upset about work to be done in an old place(even though I'm personally really really not in a mood for it...our remodel kinda left me breathless, still recovering)..every house needs tending to it..or will need soon, eventually. What's upsetting here that the seller created more problems..I'd rather have tiles whatever they were, in the bathrooms, than his laminate. The shower door doesn't close(the handle comes off, all frame is awful, whatever, what can you do, you can decide to redo it all or change the frame)-all water will be on that laminate. And so goes with almost everything he did there.

PS we bought our previous place with disgusting carpet..didn't blink an eye)) well it was different level place too..only the carpet was ..you know they potty trained their dog and all..)

To me, putting granite on old crap cabinets is like putting real fancy rims on a rusty dented car. It's not suddenly a nice car, same with cabinets.

When I bought my house the owner offered to do a bunch of cosmetic things and we said no. We told him we'd just rip it all out and throw it away. Instead we asked him to put in a sump crock and pump. To us that was way more important than paint and carpet.

In my neighborhood, if a house is not fixed up, a flipper will buy it at a reasonable price and then spend quite a bit to put in high-end appliances, etc and make money when they resell it. I went to a couple of houses like that on my street last week because an agent invited us, and I was impressed with how good a job the flippers had done. One house did not have a refrigerator, but it was still listed at $1.4 mil, and I think it will sell quickly because everything else was done very well. It was the last rental house on the street, and so everyone was glad to see the renters gone.

When we bought our Bertazzoni stove (at an appliance store in Culver City), the salesperson said that a lot of flippers in Venice buy the same red stove that we did, and so they kept inventory, which was good for us - we did not have to wait for shipping from Italy.

It appears that one entity has been renovating a number of houses in this neighborhood, as they look identical from the interior.

In case of this particular property-not a flipper actually...a homeowner himself "touched it up". Flippers have some good subs I guess. More chance maybe for normal results. Hell even we have a good handyman, and we're not flippers..forget our skillled handyman-even I would do better painting job..I mean when I was able to paint. One had to really try to make it so bad, I suppose.

It's called the HGTV Effect. I was reading about it recently where realtors get frustrated with people that are looking for homes that look like HGTV remodels. They want it "move-in ready" and don't look at the important issues like roof condition. Move in ready is meaning stainless steel appliances, nice hardwood, open concept, neutral paint... the home owners selling are probably just trying to get the look of a move in ready modern home to get it sold.

Some realtors even claimed that some of their clients actually thought they were only going to be shown three homes like the show house hunters. Oy vey!

Please do post this in the Buying/selling forum. People ask some dumb questions about this all the time, and you said it all well.

I don't know, if you're about to make the biggest purchase of your life and are gullible enough to think life is like tv perhaps you need to learn a few real life lessons. Like having to buy a new roof six months after you move into your "remodeled" house with new cheap stainless appliances and grey paint. Sheesh.

We seem to have two types of flipping styles in my area (suburb of D/FW) -- The Glamour Barn people and The Actual Barn people.

The first is from the Gaines' influence.

The second is from a Texas/Cowboy/Ranch influence. Fine and expected on an actual ranch (there are countless ones here, and most are actually decorated very tastefully/not cliched), but a bit jarring in a regular neighborhood. I have recently seen houses in neighborhoods, from $150k - $1,000,000+, redone with weathered barnwood walls/cabinets, concrete counters, stained concrete floors, whiskey barrel powder room vanities with copper sinks, cedar posts inside, walls and/or ceilings covered in galvanized tin, barn stars everywhere, light fixtures made of bridles, spurs, other barn implements, and on and on.

You know how you can buy rubber fake vomit? I want to find rubber fake horse dumplings or cow patties and place them in the rooms as a joke. Hopefully these houses come with complimentary tweezers, because everything is so peeling and splintery.

It would be challenging and expensive getting rid of The Actual Barn decor.

"You know how you can buy rubber fake vomit?"-ummm..actually, no, I didn't know that...but my morning just turned to be a beautiful start for a day..))))) I'm for real.

(how do I post it it Buying/selling? I'll try to figure out whether I maybe can add a tag. Never tried before..)

ETA: no..I guess I missed a time window since no opportunity to edit at all

April, I think you can copy and paste your original post and duplicate post it over in Buying and Selling.

Or just start a new post over there and link to this one. I would love to read continued discussion on this :-)

You should be able to post a link to this thread?

ah, of course, that, I can do..but what with all the responses? I understand they'll be in the link..will folks open the link though? well I can try and we shall see

ok..here's the link to "Buying and Selling", with the copied post, and a link to this very thread

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5119681/m=23/a-vent-about-hasty-renos-before-listing

Seems like no one thinks it's a big deal over on buy/sell. In the year+ time we've been looking to move, it does seem true that there is always something else to consider buying, eventually. As a buyer, however, I DO consider recent cosmetic updates vs. price to determine whether or not I want to pay for that stuff. (so far we haven't wanted to LOL)

melle - I also look at the recent cosmetic changes. And I have looked at 15 year old houses with brand new updates that were not my taste and passed on the house because I thought tearing all of it out would be wasteful.

We did tear out the brand new carpet in our last house but it truly was terrible, it was the ONLY thing the owners updated and it went straight to Habitat.

I’m one of those who is about to list my house. I did replace all the carpet as it was all 20 years old and after 2 kids, their friends and I don’t know how many dogs it was a necessity. I chose a neutral greige. Not my first choice but it does lend itself to anything color wise it seems. I’m not doing anything to the bathrooms as I realize anyone coming in will probably gut and start over.

I painted the kitchen cabinets a putty color. The old paint was yellow (we loved it but realized it was taste specific) and chipping enough to be a huge detractor to the average buyer with no imagination. The kitchen is a good size and layout, the appliances are above average and the countertops are the original quartz. My thought is that a buyer will probably want to renovate the kitchen, but that it will work just fine until they get to it.

The only other things I’m doing before listing is repairing any glaring things, like a messed up window casing, that sort of thing.

I’m very glad to read this post as 4 of the 5 agents we interviewed wanted us to do basically what everyone here seems to have a problem with, cosmetic patch jobs that wouldn’t increase the value of the house but would probably make their job easier.

Good that you replaced the carpets - I assume it is a rental house. Nothing worse than carpets that have dog smell. We tried to get the sellers we were buying from to get rid of the carpets with dog smell, but they refused. Two rooms had original hardwood from 1950 (easy fix), but the added master suite only had carpet, and the smell from the dogs was nauseating and impossible to remove without replacing the carpet.

Our kitchen had perfectly good maple cabinets that were fairly new, and while they were not to my taste, I did not want to remove them because I didn't hate them and they were perfectly functional.

I also would never want to pay extra for someone's renovation that I did not like. We did not see that when we were shopping, except for new builds (which were fantastic but way too expensive), but in the past few years I have noticed renovations being more common for houses just put up for sale. Maybe there are too many flipping shows on HGTV, but I do enjoy watching them - especially the Desert Flippers in Palm Springs.

..ok..from my observations-these two forums differ somewhat..:)

I wonder..if I put it in "Remodeling", say..:)

(I won't though, I'm too tired right now to make any sense)