I know! It seems the height of arrogance to suggest people just tear out things and start over - when new or even when they are trying to make the best of an unfortunate, dated element in their homes. I do like when people suggest creative solutions that may involve a similar amt of $ that the op was going to spend anyway, though. There are a couple of pros (BeverlyFla comes to mind) who really do try to provide solutions - and great photoshopped visuals - without suggesting full replacement of every element.

Also with respect to what pal said, I get annoyed when people respond to posts with suggestions of changing something when the OP has clearly said that those things must stay. And this annoyance of mine is tangential to something that perplexes me in some threads: do people just respond without actually reading at least the original post?

And no, spelling and grammar are important when asking for help with, pardon me, design dilemmas.

(Boy, am I curmudgeonly with this.)

It’s ironic that this started off on GW as a decorating site. An enjoyable place to exchange ideas and get advice . . . with our fun, wonderful Off Topic sister site. And then, along comes Houzz who takes it over, using the decorating side as the proverbial “carrot” to attract professionals. And they’ve come in flocks, bragging and blatantly pushing their own businesses,. And the rudeness I’ve read over there makes me angry and frustrated. They’ve taken the joy out of our once happy, fun site for me. I rarely venture over there anymore. I would gladly migrate with you all here to another decorating site, leaving the rude, pushy professionals behind. At least for the moment, we still have this place, but I very much miss our old Garden Web!

I just ran across THIS thread and wasted my time reading through a few posts before realizing it was from 2012. It was resurrected by a pro for the purpose of plugging his business (custom cabinets), but I don't quite see the benefit in a "professional" representing himself this way. Why would you want to portray yourself in such an unflattering fashion if you are trying to promote your business on Houzz?

Edit to add: He came back and removed his post. Smart move.

I don't think anyone would mind if we GWers post our design questions here. We know the GWers have always given good advice. Problem solved.

The only problem with more design questions on this side is the latest posts show up in a couple of places (outside of here) for all to see and I think the pros would jump in and soon be all over this place, too.

Threads here show up on the GW Discussions main page as they always have but I don't see any GW threads on the Houzz Discussions main page. Where are you seeing them?

Oh, I never go to houzz, so I just assumed they saw what I was seeing here. So I retract my concern!

Mayflower's we did a test a few weeks ago with a thread to see if it showed up on the house dilemma page and it did. But it was originally posted on the gardenweb decorating side not our conversation side here. Unless they've changed the dual format since then, I think all decorating side posts we do are seen at Houzz dilemma.

The last couple of design posts or questions I have had I have posted in this forum.

I can only reach this forum on a computer by going to Notifications and looking for activity on a thread I know was posted in this forum.

Either my taste and interests are so esoteric that they are of no interest to anyone who doesn't already know me, or they have not been found by pro-spammers, or other Houzzers. Because I don't think there have been any comments outside the GW population

I think it's the latter, I think they just aren't seen except in this forum.

You know who I am glad is gone from GW? The trollish type of person who would start to bait me for using words like "esoteric" in a thread. There were a couple who would ask me "who did I think I was trying to impress" and say that I was full of myself, etc. I got yelled at for using the word "Brutalism". They "had to look it up!", get off my high horse.

How do you think I learnt about it? I looked it up when I saw it somewhere. I wasn't born innately having a knowledge of brutalism. Isn't that how people learn?

Anyway there was a small population of those a few years back and that is one group I am glad has disappeared with all the changes.

In the same vein, I don't miss the times when an interesting thread got thrown off the rails because someone (often Tibbrix) took offense to a minor point in a comment. Then the thread would turn into a long verbose contest about which view point was superior.

Some posters could be very helpful but could act like a dog with a bone if someone disagreed with them. Exhausting.

Pal, I am glad you are still here and didn't let the trolls discourage you from posting.

I realize I almost never post here but I have been here a long time and have learned SO much from all of you. I have been slowly educated in some aspects of decor, and in lots of other things on this conversation side. I have learned to observe better when chijim posts a room with a cryptic comment in the subject line. Please, please, all of you old (and new) GW'ers don't go away unless it becomes intolerable for you.

The Deco side is not the same, at all. I really miss the old forum. There was no place better for discerning, tasteful decorating advice. Yes Pal, I believe your taste is too esoteric for the current Home Deco/Design Dilemma forum. And that’s a shame.

I spend more time on HT because........politics. That’s what is on my mind. I am now oblivious to spelling, grammar and punctuation errors.......

:-)

ETA, the “brutalism” comment is spot-on, pal. Yes, that is exactly how I learned so much on the old Deco forum. It’s just too big and mainstream now.

Sadly, I think much of the esoteric, and appreciation for the esoteric, at GW and Houzz has been removed. Or simply doesn't exist because it's such a foreign concept for so many.

I would not mind at all if someone were to resurrect the old "Design Around This" concept here in Conversations. I think I'm still too much of a Luddite to attempt an online mood board, but I loved reading along and seeing everyone's ideas.

And hurray for good grammar and spelling...

(I will always love my ellipses!)

Tib was a character but I liked her. She was often really good with paint colors.

cattyles I believe you nailed it with *mainstream*. The photo library on Houzz is all about the new and the now and posters who 'grew up' on Houzz use those exclusively for their suggestions from what I can tell. And that makes for really boring, repetitive suggestions on furnishings, lighting etc. My living room right now has an Ikea Poang chair sitting on my grandmothers antique Persian rug - not the kind of thing you'd see in the Houzz library.

I distinctly remember the first time Pal posted about Brutalism (or at least the first post I read) and was fascinated with the explanation and examples. Chijim's posts are the first I go to every time and there is always something to learn or dissect.

I don't want to give up and feel like I'm being squeezed out of the decorating side of the forum - I want to fight back! It needs to go beyond just flagging the obvious self promoters and showing others how it's done with properly worded requests for help and thoughtful responses that are not canned. And yes, calling out people who ignore the info from the OP or try to shame them with elements that are done and not changing.

Yessssss, I would much rather see a photo of your Poang with Persian than all the slick stuff in the library....

I think you all should post here to let us know when you post there. Many of us are not visiting the other side as often.

If you don't mind, next time I need help that's how I would like to handle it. I wouldn't want to miss out on my favorite most respected peeps opinions and input.

I guess I need to go check out the Houzz side of things. I never end up in Houzz Discussions instead of Gardenweb Discussions. Granted, on my cell it's not easy, but on my laptop I just start typing in gardenweb.com and go directly to Decorating. Are most of you on devices that aren't as easy as a laptop?

I had thought about trying to revive the Design Around This threads, but I couldn't imagine it working well with the current majority on the Home Decorating forum (or the rapid turnover of threads). Reviving it here might be a good idea, though I hardly have the time to do mood boards these days.

I think there is definitely less diversity in what people are recommending, and really in what people are asking for (lots of modern farmhouse; freakish amounts of modern farmhouse, actually). It's kind of sad that there isn't much interest in different ideas. One think that the DAT threads were really good for (I know I learned a ton from them).

Allison, I have two laptops. One defaults to Houzz, the other to GW. Sometimes I'm trying to find a thread I'm following and can find it on one but not the other.

And here I thought I was the queen of ellipses. Pal, here's a good example why some people seem to have poor grammar. Take my husband for example, he minored in Spanish, went on to get his J.D. and was also on Law Review, which is pretty huge.

His grammar is horrendous because of the minor in Spanish. He still has to write in Spanish for some cases, so you can see how it can be confusing.

As for myself? I'm just lousy at grammar, but I think I do pretty good.

Personally I think we need to do away with the grammar police with a few exceptions.

Dlm, I couldn't get past the person who kept saying entertainment centers were "out." Who gives a flying fig?

You think it's bad here! Go read a few on the Remodel forum. Anyone who thinks they can have a passable kitchen for less than $63,000 is dreaming. If "you" would have done your homework the granite installer/carpenter/cabinet installer/electrician/tile person wouln't have screwed up. If you would have paid more your job would be perfect. The only fix for your problem is to rip it out to the studs, remove some walls, paint it grey with no upper kitchen cabinets. Almost all the joy is gone from this site.

Haha. I noticed that as well, Imhappy. I occasionally lurk on the Remodel forum and can't get over the formulaic responses and derision.

They have tried twice, I think, to revive the DAT threads on the kitchen forum but there was a lack of participation from both creators and commenters.

My problem with bad grammer and lack of punctutation andsometimesspacingis that it is hardto decern what the commenter is commentingabout orwhat their intention is and it has the affect ofmakingme totally disrigard there response to whatever the design delimma isbecause it seams like they cant even bother two go back and profread whatthey said.

Yes, I know there are a number of misspellings in that sentence-paragraph. I am a terrible typist: some of them weren't originally intentional. I proof everything before I post it and go back and edit it for content and spelling afterward. I think half of it is pure laziness.

I visited, and see what you all mean. So many comments are short and harsh! I'll admit mine are usually short, but... A few posts were outright rude.

I also wonder why some threads on GW Decorating get numerous comments and others hardly any. I'm not talking about poorly worded posts, but some written by long standing GW members. It reminds me of HS cliques, playing favorites or ignoring the unpopular kid. I usually read/comment based on title instead of who posted, and read threads without looking to see who wrote what comment.

On to the Remodel forum...

For those who don’t visit the decor side, here is the answer to 99% of the issues presented there: your curtains are horrible, paint the walls gray, lower your tv, get a console 25% wider than the tv because what you already have is hideous.

No one follows trends, or so they claim, but they sure push them on everyone else.

Now if the OP is a male, then it’s a gentle may I suggest you move the sofa, you’re doing a good job, a larger piece of art would be nice.

Really, my grammar standards for Houzz are not that high. Here are 2 exact cut and pastes of a PRO post.

" would call the builder ASAP like right it at all until it is checked and take pictures now"

"Murphy bed for sure there are some really cool ones just google murphy beds they are a samll spaces best friend"

She's prolific and posts like that all the time. IMO it comes across as arrogant and lazy.

I agree about some threads getting a lot of responses and some hardly any. It's frustrating to post and not receive much feedback. And I'm left wondering if it's because mine is really THAT BAD or because it's not Joanna Gaines and gray. I much prefer to see suggestions and ideas from gardenwebbers than pros from houzz. As many rude, short and unrelated comments I've seen from pros I have a hard time taking them too seriously. And why would anyone think that's a way to advertise your business? I agree many of the men I've seen respond have manners. Maybe some people just get a kick out of putting the word pro by their name. I think there used to be many more design around suggestions and just more in depth discussions overall.

Pal, I agree completely. One thing, actually more than one thing that I couldn't learn for the life of me is the correct way of using apostrophe's. See? I have no clue if there should be an apostrophe in apostrophe's, but my eye's say yes. lol. I'm constantly asking DH whom I think memorized all of his English books if I need an apostrophe or not.

A couple of topics I'll never forget because I suppose I'm "thin skinned" was when someone on the old GW conversation board did a topic about apostrophe's while saying they won't name names. I piped in and said I was awful at it, and bingo, she was talking about me the whole time. WHO DOES THAT??

I'm sure the regulars are familiar with this post. After we remodeled and added-on to the house I needed help on how to decorate the mantel. The fp is a cooking fp, and the mantel is higher than normal because of that.

Although I got some great suggestions, one was "tear it down and build another." When I protested such an idiotic reply, I was told by many that I'm thin skinned and the poster was only trying to help.

Now I'm seeing a lot of replies (from the Pro's) telling the OP's to do something extremely costly which had nothing to do with the OP's original post.

I sometimes just need a break from the other side. My ideas are occasionally out there and do not always fall into the lastest trends. My other problem is expressing the think out of the box idea in a way that it can be understood. Because of this, sometimes I just aim to inspire. Even if I was talented enough I could never be someone's decorator/designer if they completely and absolutely lacked imagination. What a horrible frustration that would be.

I read an article about rude behavior recently and couldn't help thinking of this forum and how rude remarks are frequently excused and encouraged. An excerpt:

" ... we find ourselves living at a time of incredible rudeness. Social
media has taught the world it needs to have an opinion, on everything,
at all times, and that this opinion must be delivered in a forthright
way, so we seem assured, confident, smart. Reality television
has taught us to celebrate meanness, so long as that meanness is
delivered as “honesty” — an awful get-out clause designed by the truly
rude so they can say truly rude things and then expect us all to applaud
them for it."

I am reminded of a thread where the poster had listed three restrictions (can't get afford to change/physical restrictions/we like this) One of the pros popped in and made exactly three suggestions that violated the three restrictions given by the OP. It read like an inside joke to thread regular, and I said as much (something to the effect of, "I can't tell if you are making a joke or just haven't read the thread") and she got defensive. I explained my confusion and then apologized.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5056914/10-accent-wall-in-open-floor-plan-design-decor-advice-needed?n=53

Yes some of the pro commenters make me terrified to post any queries, its free advice but gets "paid" for in being whacked at... I wonder if paying clients are treated that way too? (!!!!!). Hmm. If that's what/how pros are really thinking in their heads, argh. I'm just a peon. With a little money to spend (probably not enough).

I sometimes just need a break from the other side. My ideas are occasionally out there and do not always fall into the lastest trends. My other problem is expressing the think out of the box idea in a way that it can be understood. Because of this, sometimes I just aim to inspire. Even if I was talented enough I could never be someone's decorator/designer if they completely and absolutely lacked imagination.

Don't sell yourself short! Your posts (out there, not the latest trends) and Sheeisback's posts (not gray, not Joanna Gaines) are the kind of threads I come to GW to see! Also to see what my3dogs is up to. ;D

I'm just the opposite. When I make suggestions, I don't go to far into what I would do/think they should do, and I always take the OP's comments to heart (have to keep, can't buy, etc).

Oakley, if you don't know about an apostrophe, like the ones you just wrote, stop and say it like this:

apostrophe's = apostrophe is

eye's = eye is.

Neither are needed. Neither are they possessive, so just add an "s" for plural.

Quiz at 11.

Does anyone know what happens if you flag a post "I just don't like it" ? Does it disappear for everyone, or just the person that flagged it. There's a discussion on a forum right now where two posters ganged up high school style to insult not only the OP but also other posters who were trying to help. It made me sick to my stomach and so angry, I composed a whole nasty comeback - then thought better of it and flagged it instead. Maybe I should have flagged it as inappropriate/abusive, but it didn't seem to fit into that category - at least not without the context of the other posts that came before it.

ETA: I'm also at the end of a very stressful term right now and was in a car accident on my way to work yesterday (probably the end of my beloved volvo station wagon), so I may just be overly grumpy in general.

LOL, thanks Allison. I'm glad to see you posting a bit more. Honestly, I think I'm a lost cause with apostrophes. It's the wiring in my brain which is why I hated English classes, but loved Literature. My Lit papers (apostrophe?) were always marked up in red but I'd still get an "A" for content. :)

Know what I miss from the other side? Seeing such pretty living and dining rooms where a poster wanted to do some tweaking. I loved how we all got to know another poster's house.

A big pet peeve is the pictures people post of rooms they need help with. How can anyone help if they see those stretched, real estate type pictures? They make high ceilings look look enormous when they're really not.

Cawaps, I read the thread and I'm glad you said something. The reply about changing the paint color got to me. First of all, it's drop dead gorgeous, and secondly, the OP said how much he and his wife like the color. Don't tell people to change what they already love!

the grammar and punctuation police are pretty rude............I prefer honesty to thinly veiled insults and innuendo. Sadly, many people prefer the mealy mouth smarmy politician speak instead of honesty and truth.

Oakley, you are not a lost cause! That last post to Allison was 100% correct. :)

Plurals don't get an apostrophe. If you are referring to both of your eyes, that is plural and so no apostrophe is needed.

I haven't read this whole thread but just want to chime in on the number of people who preface their posts with " I just bought this (ugly, lumpy brown) furniture, how can I make it work?"

It seems like people used to ask before buying, for help in selections, much more than they do now.

And the other post, especially in Furniture, "I just bought my first house. What furniture do I need to buy?" and of course, no pictures.

Ingeorgia, I don't think anyone should be called out on their grammar unless someone, usually a newbie, types in all caps, or doesn't put spaces between paragraphs. We also have to remember that English isn't the primary language of some posters and they do the best they can.

Now if you ever catch me write, "I went their to buy a book," then slap me silly!

Thanks, P! Here's one for you all. When receiving greeting cards, some of them are made out to:

The Smiths'

The Smith's

The Smiths

Which is correct?

The last. There is more than one Smith.

The first indicates something that belongs to the Smith family.

The second indicates something that belongs to an individual known as The Smith.

Yes, plurals don't need an apostrophe until you venture into possessives, then you do! I gave Oakley the example of her dogs and their doghouse.

Her dog's house, if she has one dog.

Her dogs' house if she has more than one dog.

No apostrophe if she's just talking about her dogs and not referring to anything that belongs to them (the dog house).

I would never dream of correcting anyone's grammar, even if it bugged me, That includes on the internet, or in person. I may be annoyed by it, but I try very hard to not be rude with anyone.

(And notice how I snuck that apostrophe into this comment?) And I can't remember who said it, but I speak (and write) very parenthetically as well.

What has always perplexed me about using an apostrophe with plurals is that "the offender" will use it inconsistently. Nouns ending in a vowel are usually the ones they add the apostrophe to, but they also add it to nouns ending in a consonant, but not all of them. Often in one paragraph some plurals will have an "s" and some will have apostrophe "s". They made up their own rule but that rule itself follows no pattern.

Oakley, how did you go through all of your schooling as a child and young adult knowing how to pluralize but in adulthood, you changed all the rules? It's a very common grammar mistake and I have always wondered how people such as yourself got so confused.

If someone misspells or makes a grammatical or punctuation error, I don't say anything but I do use the word with the proper spelling in my reply.

If you just can't figure out the rules, the best approach is to always leave out the apostrophe. If left out and needed, someone can assume it's a typo. If added and it's wrong, then your mistake is obvious.

I notice grammar and spelling errors, and some of them annoy me, but I don't generally call people out on it. I may ask for clarification if the error is such that I'm not sure I understood what was meant.

I'm seeing a lot of mistakes in posts that seem to be result of the use of voice recognition software. I use this on my phone for texts, and sometimes what gets typed is ludicrously far from what I said (did I mumble?). These often go well beyond the homophone errors that most people make now and again when writing (and some people make all the time). People should proofread, but they don't always, or else they miss errors when they do.