This isn't very imaginative, but I put in the basics. If they don't open the wall by the low window, the red rectangle represents a small mobile cart, which can be pulled out as needed. I made the counters 30" deep on both sides of the room since it's not wide enough for an island. If it's in the budget, base cabinet drawers can be custom made deeper for extra storage, or standard depth cabinets can be pulled away from the wall. The uppers and pantry are 15" deep, for extra storage--the tall pantry cabinet could be a combination of wall cabinets, if that is a less expensive option. I'd suggest Ikea cabinets, since their uppers come in 15" and 18" depth.

The trash pull-out is only 12". I have an inexpensive Rev-a-shelf unit that size, and it works fine for our family of 5, but they could switch that for an 18" pull-out and adjust the other drawers on that run. All other base cabinets are drawers.

The door was flipped on the 'designated bathroom', so that it's somewhat blocked from the kitchen view. I understand it's not always easy to find a place for a bathroom in an old house, but having it open directly into the kitchen is not optimal. If you can post a sketch of the DR, and include the layout of the whole house maybe we can suggest other options.

Thank you, mama goose! I hadn't thought about putting the range on that side. I was hung up on where it had been "installed" by the previous owners, which was behind that basement door (!??!). That's where the current gas hookup (is that what you call it?), and I keep thinking of sliding the range further down that wall toward the back of the house since that seemed easiest to me (but I haven't checked out the basement for that possibility yet).

The deeper counters in your design will certainly help. I had forgotten about 18" uppers so we'll explore that too. Love the pantry idea behind the basement door. My son and I have both been hung up on a fridge & pantry complex on the dining room side.

That mobile cart idea sounds very practical. I was thinking of a window seat and a little table, but what they really need is more counter space in the right place. A mobile cart could be the ticket.

Thanks very much for your fresh set of eyes and this food for thought.

Tell your son to look into induction instead of gas. Especially with having to move a gas line.

I think I'd prefer the fridge on the same side as the sink in Mama's plan. That would give more space on either side of the stove. Otherwise I think Mama's idea is a good one. To the right of the fridge I'd add in a small broom closet that's a "pull out".

Thanks, cpartist. So you're seeing the fridge on what side of the sink? Back door side? That's where the fiancee wants it. (I'm not sure why. It's not like they'll bring groceries in thru the back door. Everything will come in thru that door opening from the dining room because there's no parking near the back. But I generally like the fridge on the sink side too. The French door design seems to complicate that sort of access though.) Seems like if the fridge goes in that space, there won't be much room for prep btwn fridge & sink. But maybe that's where the mobile cart comes in? Would it seem too weird to slide the sink toward the basement door so it's not right under the window? The window lets in a little light, I suppose, but I see no difference btwn standing in front of that and a wall since all you can see from it is the siding on the neighbor's house and it's right in your face.

How wide does that broom closet need to be to let fridge door open properly?

I will pass along your suggestion about induction, but electricity generally costs more here than gas so I'm not sure how that will fly.

I'm worried about venting the range on that side from the DR side of the kitchen. Seems like it would be easier to vent if the range were on an outside wall.

Son is trying to do most of the work himself with help from family, but they might have to pay someone to install a vent. I suppose I need to read up on venting too.

Thanks very much!

It would be nice to get the sink and range on the same side, and if your son is OK with having the sink beside the window, rather than in front of it, then the range can stay m/l in the current position. A barn door type slider for the basement entry would make that easier, and if the bathroom door can be flipped, there should be room for the slider.

Any appliance by the back door is going to be inconvenient, so the only spot for the DW would be in the prep space. Quick rearrangement:

Ah! I wonder if that would work. So the fridge is next to the MW spot? I can't make out the label on your drawing. (I certainly prefer that to the OTR version, but I'm not them, I have to keep reminding myself.)

I wonder how you figure out whether the old chimney is still usable. The opening is bricked/cemented in in the dining room. I hope he doesn't have to climb on the roof.

I do like that slider door on the basement.

Is there counter space to left of range? If so, 12" uppers on top? Or maybe no uppers? If they did go with a slider to the basement, could they have regular depth base cabs (23.5"?) to the left of range?

The kitchen as 9.5' ceilings. IIRC, there is a bedroom over it.

Someone would have to climb on the roof to sink a vent pipe--if the old chimney could be used. Sorry, I flipped the fridge location, and didn't flip the text. Turn your computer upside down, and look at it in a mirror. ;)

Base cabinets are 24" deep, then the counter overhang is usually a minimum of 1", so a standard base/counter would overlap the basement door trim. With a sliding door there is space for 15"-18" uppers, but I didn't take time to draw any uppers on the sink wall. BTW, I have an 18" deep upper cabinet over 28" counters, and I don't really like it--items in the back get lost. I planned to use the cabinet to store a large item, then had to rearrange due to a miscommunication. It looks OK because it's above the MW, and the same depth as that cabinet. I think the 15" deep cabinets would be perfect for dishes.

There's a note on the original drawing that says/asks, "take this part of wall out?". Does that wall have to come down? I'm asking b/c your son would gain a bit of counter along that wall if he kept the wall there. I was thinking a small bench in front of the side window (the window is only 30" off the floor) and then the rest counter, etc.

Would your son be willing to change out that window for one that's 36" off the finished floor?

--OR--

How tall/short are your son and his finance? Would they want a run of shorter counters? 30" high instead of 36"? Or, it would make a good height for rolling out dough if either of them bakes a lot...

Just trying to come up with other ideas! The placement of the doors is probably the biggest thing causing issues in this Kitchen!

+++++++++

Bathroom -- is that door the actual door for the bathroom? If so, it will be opening directly into the Kitchen, which, I've recently discovered, is against Code in some areas. If nothing else, it's very distasteful to have a bathroom open into the Kitchen or Dining Room - or even a Living/Family/Great Room. Public bathrooms like this should open into a hallway or similar.

No, that wall can easily stay, buehl. I understand that my son was thinking of changing that window. Apparently the sill has a problem. Re: a bench under the window. Would you be able to sit at the counter on the bench? Would there be knee room?

Son is 6'2" pretty sure, fiancee I'm guessing is 5'10".

Yes, the doors are the biggest pain.

The room designated as a bathroom appears to have been some kind of storeroom. It just seemed like the easiest place to put the half bath they want on the main floor.

I know I should have measured the other rooms so you could have a better sense of the house. Front door opens directly into the living room, which spans the front of the house. A nice wide stairway runs up the left wall of the living room. Dining room and adjacent kitchen make up the rest of the first floor -- except for the little storage room off the kitchen that they see as a good spot for a half bath. Dining room runs from LR to back of house. I am not sure if there is a possibility of putting a little hallway with coat closet and half bath off the LR, but that could fix that problem you identified. I will try to draw the layout of the entire first floor and post a picture in case you might have a brainstorm.

Thanks very much for taking a look at this.

This drawing shows the dining room, detail on the little storage room they want to make into a half-bath, and a correction to the kitchen drawing. I messed up the measurement from the floor on that window in the kitchen next to the back door. It's actually 40.5" above the floor so cabinets could fit under it.

The oak trim throughout the house is 4.5". My son has proposed cutting into it or removing it in order to fit things.

Buehl, I'm not sure how to make a little hallway and bath out of that small storage room, unless the toilet's in a stall and perhaps a little sink in the hallway?

Mama goose's 2nd plan seems like a good fit, but I wonder how to make a counter running up to that back window work with the pantry/MW/fridge complex.

If they've decided against a doorway in that back corner, the pantry can be switched to the other end, giving them multiple options.

1. 1) full-depth, with roll-out tray shelves
2. 2) shallow pantry in front, with a pull-out pantry behind it
3. 3) shallow cabinet on the side of the fridge

The shallow tall cabinet would probably be the most budget-friendly, while providing easy access. With that option they lose some storage space in the pantry, but gain counter and drawer space.

This is looking quite a bit like what they sketched. Except fiancee may be stuck on having the fridge in corner near the sink in your plan. I'm hoping she'll be open to something like this. Again, thanks very much!

They seem to like the pantry/fridge/microwave side of the room. But I thought they were open to the sink not being in front of the window. It seems that symmetry is king. I am looking for images that might show range and sink on either side of window. Or maybe someone can help with another sort of keyword search? I should probably start another thread, right?

Now that the range and sink are on the same side of the room, it's not as important to close the gap in the wide aisle. If they go back to standard depth cabinets on the exterior wall, maybe the range can squeak down another few inches--but that's only with a sliding door.

They want what they want, and it's a small kitchen--if they put the sink in front of the window, for a 'kitchen-warming' gift give them an integrated cutting board. They can put it over the sink to return that space to counter top when needed.

Nice idea, cutting board sink cover. Son wants a big sink so that could work well. Apparently son doesn't like the barn door slider idea. Someone suggested flipping the swing of the basement door but I'm not sure that will resolve the conflict with the range. Thank you for sketching up this alternative.

It looks as if changing the door swing will clear the corner of the range, but it might be awkward, reaching into the corner for the knob. You'd need to make sure it also clears drawer pulls

Do you have pictures of the existing kitchen? How close is the door to the range?

Is the basement finished, not damp or cave-like? Maybe an open rail, so that no door is necessary? They could use a safety gate while the children are small.

Basement is not finished and I can't see them doing that. The floor was wet in spots when I was there yesterday. Looked like foundation problems to me.

Here is the whole side wall of the original kitchen, but you can't see the range in relation to the basement door.

You can see the corner of the room next to the range. That's about it. Probably wouldn't help to get a picture now, would it?

Maybe the bifold would work. It's certainly worth checking. I do like the idea of a pocket door, but aren't they tricky to install?

I am so grateful to you, mama goose. All your ideas, your thoughts, hanging in there with me/us thru this process. So generous.

You said the deeper counters wouldn't be necessary on the window side of the kitchen, but they'll probably be a good idea for the fridge side, right?