Only the lawyer will get satisfaction from this deal.

Sadly I think the deck is simply the difference in a production builder and custom builder. Take some solace in that you pay 2x to 3x more per sq foot for a custom builder.

FWIW, the rest seem like genuine issues that you'd want corrected and the builder should correct.

Document, document, document. When you talk to the GC, follow up with a letter of your understanding of the conversation. It's going to be a big email file before this is over. Before I start any conversation, I'd introduce myself as "That guy".

I'm married to a pilot, the only thing worse than an engineer when it comes to building. Years ago, our favorite home inspector was a structural engineer. He gave us good advice when he said: it's not an airplane. This old girl is a hundred and fifty years old. Give her a break:)

You may have to get one of the other builders in the neighborhood to complete the job. You must have rights to fire this guy. You may need to complain to the developer. If it's one of their "custom builder program" guys, they need to know if the work is sub-standard. These guys can get fired for this sort of thing.

You are going to have to lower your standards and set some priorities. But, don't lower them to the point you can't sleep at night. Get the window and roofing issues fixed, asap. Then, work on the electrical. The deck is a lower priority.

Whatever you do, don't talk to the subs. Talk to the GC, daily if necessary. He's your point of information and contact. I made the mistake of instructing a sub in a semi-custom neighborhood as to where to put some leftover brick. It damn near turned into an assault. Only talk to the GC. It's his project and his subs. Make it his responsibility. Don't ever tell them to stop while you get the GC. Just go get the GC and make him make them do it over until it's right.

This is going to get worse before it gets better. I know it makes little sense to say hold him to the fire and be flexible. It's a fine line and a difficult one to negotiate successfully.

Thanks for the comments!

The builder has already been kicked out of the neighborhood. My project is the last one they are building here. I don't know any details surrounding this decision by the developer.

In that case, talk to your lawyer. You may need to fire him. After getting your attorney's advice, give him a chance to correct the deficiencies. If he won't, fire him with cause. Only do this under your attorney's advice. This will cost you some money.

Oh heavens! The builder has no incentive to do anything right. You need a meeting with the developer. Get the developer to take some responsibility and help you get a much better builder to finish this project. The developer can't afford to have this going on. As a minimum, your lawyer should understand this and perhaps a call from your attorney with a simple letter to the developer might motivate the developer to help you recover on this project. Quite a mess for sure. I wouldn't want this builder back on my job. Going to be hard to get another builder to pick this up without some assurances from developer and you. Requires a whole new contract. I don't envy you at all. So sorry. Hoping you can reach some agreement and get this project back on track.

100% speak with your lawyer. If the developer kicked this builder out of the community, there is a good (bad) reason for that - and clearly it isn't limited to your home. My guess is that your end satisfaction will come from the developer helping to bring in one of the other builders.

Actually, the fact that the developer has kick this builder out, is good for you. That means they have had way too many problems with them too. I think, if they have other builders available, and it sounds like they do, they can arm twist one into doing it. They usually have to buy lots from the builder and that is a cash flow drain for the builders. They might be able to "lift" that requirement from another builder, as compensation for doing you job. That is the path I think could work for you. But make sure you know which one of the other builders would be acceptable to you. This is your chance. Figure out who is the best and has the best "subs" and then ask for the best. This is your chance.

Edit, the builders have to buy the lots from the developer and that is the commitment that costs the builders cash flow and they usually have to build a certain number of units each year. I typed it wrong above. The developer holds a tremendous amount of power over everything.

Flo,

The plot thickens, huh?? :)

This is a CP loan transaction, so I own the land.

My lawyer is looking into options as we speak!

You are taking the right approach in getting this resolved. I, too, would advocate in getting a new builder. As others have mentioned, these are legitimate issues that need to be addressed. I cringe to think how the finished product will look if you end up keeping this guy and his crew.

I would not pick battles. I would itemize EVERY issue to establish a case that the contractor is incompetent, does poor quality work and utilizes dangerous building practices. In the end, you might have to let the deck go, but for now I'd add it to your burden of proof against the contractor. Your lawyer should help you with this. I am not sure how much responsibility the developer has, but hopefully he will step in with a new contractor to remedy the issues.

OK this changes my suggestion. Knowing your builder was kicked off the development, I agree with rocky to document everything and also speak to your lawyer and the developer.

There are a lot of major issues there. I’m so sorry! Everything in writing and documented explictely, for your lawyer. And no, I wouldn’t accept a deck installed that way either, though it isn’t the biggest fish to fry here.

My spouse is also an engineer and we DIY-ed the trex deck on our last home. You would not BELIEVE the amount of installers who didn’t appear to even had read the installation instructions (listed as certified by the product manufacturer, itself). Incorrect spacing of joists, incorrect board gaps and tolerances, you name it. And yet somehow we managed to follow the instructions and do it to the letter all by our lonesomes.

This is is an ongoing industry issue and it’s not acceptable. A popped nail here or there? One split stud or even truss? Okay, imperfect materials and installation. But out and out failures in basic product use that WILL cause premature failure and void warranties? I’ll go to the mattresses on that one.

i hope you have some recourse, they need to fix it. I would focus on the main issues first and press less hard on things that would be strictly cosmestic, but honestly most of what you detailed above is a big deal. The deck is just annoying, but the incorrect tub install and flashing/tyvex issues, the lack of sealing around the columns, rubbing wires, etc? Heck no.

Have your lawyer contact a forensic construction engineering expert and have them do a report on the above stated issues. Bring that to the developer. Threaten legal action and going to the press if needed...

"The builder has already been kicked out of the neighborhood. My project is the last one they are building here. "

There is something wrong with the timing here.

I am guessing at this time the developer is out of it, and you still have a contract with the builder. You are probably in better shape since you own the lot, but don't hang your hat on the developer helping you.

No the developer limits the builders so they are in it. You will be amazed at what a good attorney can do with a phone call to the developer. You have to start there. This is like peeling an onion. As long as the developer doesn’t feel like they are in real jeopardy, it is in their best interest to make you happy. Within reason of course. Discuss the strategy with your attorney. It might be best that you get a meeting with the developer and sit down and with as calm an attitude as possible give them quick run down. Quick. Hit highlights. See what the attitude is. If you don’t get a feeling of assistance, then just say “i was so hoping you would help resolve this easily, but perhaps i was wrong.” And end the meeting. Now you know you are in a two year process to get this resolved. Hoping your developer steps up. If they have a lot of lots and hones left to build they will help.

I simply don't see what leverage the developer has now that he has removed the contractor from the development.

Trying to establish causation from the developer to win a builder negligence case looks a bit of a stretch to me, I think you are going to struggle to prove several necessary elements, such as a duty of care and but for causation. There are certainly reasons to chase the bigger pockets, but that bigger pocket is going to take more money and has a lesser chance of success.

Withholding the contractor's payment is the most leverage that you have, if you and your attorney can deal with getting these things fixed by withholding his payment or by using those funds to get a third party fix, that is probably your best legal option. You will have to deal with mechanic's liens but they can be dealt with a lot less problematically than an all out court fight.

Finally, know what a win looks like. Once you get attorneys involved, a pyrrhic victory becomes an all too possible outcome. It is simply unlikely that you are going to get everything you want in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable cost. So at each step along the way be cognizant of the likely costs and outcomes of continuing.

Good luck

The developer has plenty at stake. His/her reputation in the area is valuable, so for continuing lot sales and giving his other builders support for sales, he has "leverage" over the other builders as well. It doesn't cost anything but a few hours to get with the developer. In this area, the developer has moved builders out, but they have always worked with buyers to assist getting a positive resolution without arbitration if possible. Doesn't always work, but 90% of the time, good outcomes. Maybe we just have a good developer here. Not saying it is a sure thing, but surely worth a discussion. The only way I could accept work from this builder, is if he agreed that I would select the subs. He has crappy subs because he isn't paying them market value and maybe not paying them at all. Your lawyer can tell you if the builder has contractor liens on him/her. Not a good situation for sure and will cause you tons of money and grief. I am just trying to help you find a reasonable, easier, less expensive road to maximize your situation and minimize the pain!

You have an attorney, you should take his legal advice instead of ours. I feel confident that he will agree with my assessment. Just keep in mind the cost of winning, as a rule, if you make it to court, you have already lost. Sometimes there is no choice and you have to slow the bleeding, but you will be bleeding.

Sit down with whoever you want, but I can't imagine any developer's attorney letting him get too involved in this, it is an invitation to future legal action against the developer and were he my client I would strongly advise against it.

At the point the developer removed the builder from the approved list - it shows he took action. I too - can't see him wading into the middle of this, nor can I see a court holding him legally accountable. bry's advice is likely to mirror what you hear from your attorney.

Can you amicably part ways with the current builder and get a new one? It will hurt financially but the sense of relief would be worth something.

I am not giving legal advice, and have indicated the poster should consult with his attorney. However, if there is a way, a path to avoid litigation it is well worth trying. Otherwise, there is nothing ahead in this situation but stress, time, frustration, lost opportunities, sleepless nights and loss of funds. Surely a non-litigious step is worth trying.

The builder is there for ONLY one reason.......to make as MUCH MONEY as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stay AWAY from production builders!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you want to get ripped off!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough already Robin. Your comments are not helpful and instead make the OP feel worse. If you have nothing to say that will help the OP, just stay off the thread.

I'm going to get back to the original post. The picture of the rafter with the break and the metal plate as a repair. I don't agree with it, but putting a metal plate on a break is considered an acceptable fix. They would rather do this than lose the time, material and manpower replacing the material with something that isn't split. I don't agree with it, but you may not get a lot of support on this issue. It's not just your builder, this is an industry thing.

Homechef,

The rafter section was not repaired. What you are looking at is the original part.

This is an engineered truss that is built to specifications by said roof system manufacturer.

If a truss is damaged, it's not a truss anymore. It's just pieces of lumber that formally resembled a truss.

A builder cannot make field modifications of engineered parts such as this. There is no "fix" that can legally be done. This particular piece is snapped completely through in two locations.

The problem is, it passed the framing inspection by the county. Which leads me to believe they are not very stringent.

Production builders are not, as a whole, bad. They build a house of arguably lessor quality than a custom builder (and some might argue that you get more bang for your buck with a custom builder) but they produce at price points that custom can't touch.

I was looking at the split board in the picture. Roofing truss is a different matter.

Hey everyone!

I certainly understand that this is a production home. All of you are correct that my expectations should not be as high for this type of home and price point.

Prices are all relative.. I get that. Quality is relative... I get that.

What I can't accept is the fact that there are so many blatant code violations in my build. There are life safety issues, water proofing issues, and electrical issues that toe the line between safety and convenience. 25 outlets, light cans and ceiling fans on ONE 15-amp circuit. Ridiculous right?

Our county is pretty aggressive by adopting the 2015 IRC building codes. These codes are supposed to transcend price, quality, and design. They are a minimum threshold that needs to be upheld by any builder no matter how much the house cost.

I don't care if my home isn't "custom". I want items done to code.

This project is around the 625k mark for anybody who was wondering.

No question work should be to code and inspections from the county should verify that. Any thoughts on your strategic direction? Sure hoping this moves in a good direction for you. I have helped a couple people go through this type situation, and it is a horrible thing to endure. Keep us posted. I know we all want the best for you from a safety point of view and to at least get what you contracted for in a reasonable timeframe.

That is not an unreasonable expectation. We all share in your desire to not be ripped off. But, you are dealing with humans. Some are better than others. Most just want to make it someone else's headache. You are not going to get much satisfaction from your building inspector. I've never been sure who they represent other than the government. Don't expect much from them and you won't be disappointed. You are in a pickle.

I appreciate all the support, and I will update everyone when I hear back from the builder! Or their lawyers! Haha

Not sure where you are homechef59, but inspections here are rigorous and at times overly aggressive. But, all areas and regions are different for sure. Dubya301, you surely deserve better than what has happened so far, perhaps things will improve! Hoping for that. A "pickle" is an understatement.

Look- you had me at windows. Fenestration issues, within windows, are the #1 reasons for lawsuits in builds. All your pros know this.OTOH, in a build, things go wrong. Nearly all of the mistakes- if not all- can be corrected.

The advice to get a list going, in writing, is great. This should also, be, more than just email-even if you get confirmation of a "read" email. Send the pages "snail mail", return receipt requested- signed by the professional on your lot. It's a lot harder for a GC/builder/developer to ignore that, vs- " ah, darn it- my assistant (etc) picked up the email, and I never saw it". Copy your lawyer, but do it yourself. And it should be non-passionate, and as friendly as you can. List issues. "Things happen. We both want this to go well. What can we do, going forward?" Now the ball is in the developer's court.

Be careful, as an engineer, of suggesting your own remedies. Because that will be all you get, but is it all you need? Careful, but know your building codes as well as the issues. Communicate.

Most developers are highly interested in their projects, as a whole and house by house, going well. Remember- as you build, others are, too. And the developer has big money on the table that h/she needs for another project. Take advantage of that. A developer interested in getting the development way off the ground can affect a lot of good.

Since you seem committed to the project, get in this, in a way that will get attention. That's what you're asking for. And you might need it.

while bry911 may be correct that the developer has little leverage over the builder at this point as he has been removed from the approved list, the issue I would look for the homeowner and his lawyer to explore is the leverage they have over the developer.

Obviously there have been long running issues with this builder - so when did the developer become aware of these, and did they have some duty to make the homeowner aware of these issues (i'm guessing construction began about 6 months ago). I will admit I'm not familiar with the business relationship here between developer and builder, but the very fact that there is an 'approved list' of some sort implies vetting and some implicit level of endorsement. And effectively firing the builder but letting him finish up this house is itself a dereliction. Once they determined the builder wasn't qualified, the correct course of action would have been to make arrangements (in agreement w/the homeowner) to have one of the other builders take over the project at the contracted price. That's the remedy I would be seeking.

A bad builder who uses unskilled/cheap subs is a problem in that he’ll try to get those same unskilled subs to fix the problem. It can be like getting a young child to drive a car, not impossible but requiring lots of supervision and assistance. And just think, he’ll use more unskilled subs on the interior finish too. This will only get worse. Hire a construction supervisor. Each day this person will go to the job and make them re-do whatever they’ve screwed up that day. Don’t let this house progress without CLOSE supervision because all these and other problems will get hidden and some will be impossible to fix without ripping your house apart. And yes, gaps between deck boards are there for a reason, just as plywood decking on roofs needs gaps. I’d have it re-done in spec. If possible, get a different builder AND a construction supervisor. I know one person who installed cameras all over his house-under-construction, and kept an eye on the workers. As soon as he saw an error, he was right on the phone. It probably affected his day job, but his house wasn’t riddled with issues.

Thanks for that.

I sent a carefully crafted letter explaining the major issues and their implications. We also cited the developers CC'Rs, Local codes, and home warranty, all of which support my case. I also attached a punch-list complete with photos that was very detailed and organized. The home inspection reports were attached as well.

The end of the letter asked for their timely response, and explained that if appropriate action was not taken, we will move to terminate the contract.

This was sent via email and certified mail.

Just to be clear, I don't see causation for the developer, it isn't that you and your attorney can't argue causation for the developer, feel free to sue him and roll those dice, but it is an expensive get. Your chances of winning are much less than they are against the builder, and you are unlikely to be awarded attorney fees on a negligence case with this many questions.

You must show that the developer had a duty and but for neglect of that duty your house would not have these issues. There are many problems with this assertion, first, and hardest to overcome, is if you knew the approved builders before you bought the lot then you found them acceptable. You have to prove that the developer had a duty to the homeowner. Someone please tell me how selling a lot with certain covenants and restrictions creates a duty for him to fully insure the benefit of those covenants and restrictions that supersedes your acceptance of those covenants and restrictions.

That is just one of the three things that you are going to have difficulty overcoming. Once you establish duty, you have to show that there was no reasonable action available that would negate the damage, noting that there are other builders available you would have to prove that they all have similar issues. Once you get past that, you have to prove that the developer actually neglected his duty, which since he has kicked the builder off the development is another tough get.

It just seems like a tough win, that is going to cost more than you end up with. Sorry, but that is my opinion.

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Along with my father I have developed several mixed use developments (homes, apartments and shopping), and I am currently a member of an LLC developing a small shopping/condo warehouse district development. I am not saying the developer will not want to help, I am saying as a developer, access is the leverage I have (the money that builders can make from me). Once the builder is removed he is going to tell me to go pound sand.

I will happily testify on your behalf if need be, however, if I start paying for things to get done I am opening myself up to an argument that I accepted responsibility. As much as I want financing and publicity to be positive, that has to happen on the front end. I can't start paying for the mistakes that builders make without opening myself up to being responsible for every problem by every homeowner.

bry911 - explain to me what the purpose is of limiting builders to an approved list? Obviously any plans are subject to the covenants and restrictions of the development. And of course a builder would have to meet certain requirements like insurance, perhaps a certain level of financial strength. But beyond that why should a developer care which builder I use?

bry911 can explain his/her rationale for it, but around here it is to "control" the quality and long term viability of the builders to maintain their vision for the development. The developer sets the overall standards and of doing the job, controls architectural content, certain specific requirements so there is consistency and vets the builders. Something sure feel through the cracks with this builder. The builders can change over time, depending on future plots that might get opened up with slightly different goals and market demands, along with ongoing viability of builders.

bry911- it perhaps isn't "causation" of the developer. OTOH, the developer did recommend the builder, as one of the few he would allow. That s/he builder no longer invited onto the property for new builds says volumes..

When you have a receding professional from a development, they can (not always, but often) act little more than sub-contractors. So sure- work with the developer- we want what you want, a tight build. Let's get going. Not that complicated, except, of course, within contracts.

There is a temptation in cases like this to assign blame and attempt to hold those who you blame responsible.

My only real advice, legal or not, is to chase resolution and not justice. Be very careful using your money to chase justice because when you do, you too often end up with neither.

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I don't care why the developer limited the OP to 5 builders, I don't care if he personally guaranteed the quality of those builders, I don't even care if he is 100% responsible. There is a strong possibility that chasing resolution through the developer is tilting at windmills. You are likely to end up spending $50,000 in legal fees to get a $25,000 settlement from his insurance company that includes an NDA.

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My advice is use the power of the purse, even if you have to deal with mechanic's liens, they are a lot cheaper and easier to fight than full blown negligence cases.

Additionally, I would consult with your attorney before you start demanding a third party fix. That is a one way ticket to being out of pocket for the whole thing, you must give someone who you chose to do work a chance to satisfactorily correct that work. You should consult with your attorney to know when that opportunity to correct has expired or been implicitly rejected.

Bry111, we agree on demanding a third party fix. If their is a builder and developer on site, the OP shouldn't need it.

Mechanic's liens- we may work in different markets, but the rules here are that it all falls on who you, personally, contract with. Typically a GC or builder. They're important, as they indicate finished/paid for work. If paid, it also indicates homeowner/buyer acceptance of the workmanship.

In my last custom build, I had to stop some things. Not loving this and that- and it ranged from "I paid for 2'6", and this isn't it" in framing all the way up. And so no. I simply didn't write the checks, until it was fixed.Power of the purse- you and I agree on that.

Most of all, we agree strongly: Having a legally binding contract that actually protects you, as a homeowner, and isn't just some boilerplate agreement designed by the local/state Builder's Association. LOL- those contracts are lopsidely drawn up to protect a builder, not a homeowner. Again, in my latest custom build I had an attorney who morphed our contract to actually protect us.

She also was very strong, in the beginning: Don't get into a contract expecting litigation, or that's what you get. Instead, enter into a contract that you understand, that protects you and is fair to all. This is a clear document that, if you ever have issues, you can refer to, to solve any dispute quickly, without legal fees.

Tell your builder you just want products installed per the manufacturer’s guidelines. This protects both of you.

http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/construction-materials/building-envelope-systems/articles/arch-binder.html

Trust me, I have. The problem is they think they are exceeding those guidelines. I have forwarded the window, house wrap, straitflash, door, and siding manufacturer's instructions. They even had the nerve to send them back to me with highlighted points.

Hey all, heres an update--

The builder responded saying they would fix all of the issues outlined in my report. Great!!!!

Heres the catch.....

I stopped by the house today to take a look. They have definitely been busy. They fixed the exterior doors with improper door swings Cool!

They added sill pans to the windows.... WAIT... they didn't pull the windows out????? i peeled off this piece of trim to take a look. Look what they hid!

Almost every window is now in this condition. Its a MESS

The builder also "patched" damaged tyvek. This is in such poor condition from flapping freely in the wind for several weeks. this tyvek originally ripped during 60+ mph winds during our recent Nor'easter. They used HUNDREDS of staples to haphazardly tack this thing down. OMG

Remember that mud bed under the soaking tub? Fixed it!! WAIT....... they just added mud to the perimeter to make it LOOK like a proper base.