sounds good. I am using a 2-2-1 with 2-pinebark, 2-compost, 1-Perlite.

Where are you getting the ricehull Bob? Sounds like a good mix.

Steve, that works! I am fortunate living not far from a big garden center that has everything that i need. Fine aged pinebark(perfect size), risehull, perlite and a bunch other stuff. Bark can be delivered for $39.oo up to 10 yards.

Best of all owner will trade for some of the stuff i am growing. For instant 3 yards of bark for a large container fig tree, have 12.

He gets from a wholesaler in Stutgart, Arkansas, rice fields up the ying-yang, called the Delta. Pinebark, a source around Hot Springs, AR, they grind to specs.

I have sixteen 20" tall Seville Sour Orange seedling in 3 gallon RootMaker containers with 5-1-1 as the mix. I'm finding out that the 5-1-1 mixture is a real pain to grow in, with the constant watering requirements. I don't think they grow as fast in that mix either.

Silica - what mix do you think they grow faster in?

My Seville seedling is a whooping 3 inches tall. Nearing grafting sized.

Silica Now you see why I don't like 5-1-1. It seems to be too dry for my taste. Where I live, in the late spring/summer, it is already 80* by 8 a.m. I hate the heat and like not worrying about my plants when I feel like going off camping or whatever.

Denise, I think the trees suffer some from the lack of enough water in between each watering when they are in a 5-1-1.. Citrus trees don't eat, they only drink, and if they don't have enough to drink, they slow down in all respects.

Has anyone ever tried adding vermiculite to the mix in order to increase water absorption? I was thinking about doing that in a top ‘layer’ of 511, since the top always dries out so fast.

my best trees grew in 50% compost 50% topsoil from my yard. To heavy for me to carry.

Steve

Has anybody tried the mix recommended by Martine Brucheau aka Organics Best Urban Gardner? He uses azalea & camilia mix, pathway bark, and coco coir. I am tempted, but 2 out of the 3 items would have to be ordered online and I am too cheap to do that.

I remember when coco coir was a big thing here on GW but one of the issues that began to come up with its use was how the coco coir seemed to retain salts more than other media and thus required more flushes of the mix than when using other additives (even after the initial coir was thoroughly flushed before inclusion).

jenny, somebody told me if the OMRI seal was on coco coir, then it was safe to use on citrus. I have not jumped on the bandwagon with its use because the salt may still be on the product.

I've been playing around with a 2-1-1. 2 parts Forest Hummus, 1 Perlite and 1 Fox Farms ocean forest.

Vermiculite tends to collapse after a certain numbers of soak / dry cycles and ends up reducing the space available for air in your mix. I’ve used it in container soils before and been very unhappy with the results. Certainly we should all experiment and try things, but I wanted to share my experience. If you want to increase water retention in 5-1-1 you could try using a finer bark than reptibark, increasing the percentage of peat, or using pumice or growstones instead of perlite.

I try to use lightweight, affordable mixes. My woody plants are all in one of the following:

33% G&B Organics Potting Soil, 33% reptibark, 33% growstones.
(Moving away from reptibark due to price)

50% G&B, 20% LECA clay balls, 30% coarse perlite

50% G&B, 15% 3/16” pumice, 35% coarse perlite

I have gardenias in a mix of 50% growstones, 50% EB Stone Azalea potting mix and they’ve done really well in it so I think it’d be fine for citrus as well.

Thanks for sharing, PacNorWreck. The more I read and learn, the more overwhelmed I am. There so many different options and everyone has different opinions. I thought I'd settled on my mix ingredients, but I didn't realize that vermiculite structure collapses. I want to avoid that issue because that's what I'm dealing with right now. My peat is awful and I need something with more structure and longevity.

I am so proud of this group here. It seems that everyone has the right concept about using very durable mixes and ingredients to keep the roots of our trees aerated and well watered.

As for the 5.1.1 mix, I find it works perfect for me if I use the decomposed ones like you are suppose to verses using the repti-bark although the repti-bark does last a heck of a lot longer and does require more frequent watering to start, especially if they are not soaked first and not sifted to the right size.

There are many that know that the more frequent you can water your plants, the healthier they are and that is why many choose the lesss water retentive mix that allows them to water every day sometimes several times a day without the worry of root rot, fungus gnats and over watering.

Then there are others that don't choose to water as often which causes them to use more water retentive material without sacrificing the integrity of the mix.

Remember that the less often you have to water, the longer your mix holds moisture, the more of a risk you take in harboring gnats, rot and so on. So a thread like this is just perfect in finding the right or middle ground for everyone. Thank God for choices, good ones here.

Pac, how much vermiculite do you use in your container, i don't see your point. I don't use it, because for me it is not needed. What i use is plenty good for citrus, figs and whatever.

Hi Bob,

I don't use vermiculite anymore. When I did, I used it in place of the perlite in 5-1-1 because I didn't know any better.

Denise - I’ve watched all of urban gardeners citrus videos. His trees look great, but I think being in California helps. I hestitate to use something with that much potting mix because I think it will still end of collapsing really fast, since it’s peat based. I think it will work great until it starts to break down and then become impacted. My last peat based mix didn’t even last 6 months before it was a disaster. 511 and other soileds mixes are supposed to last longer.

After reading lots about pumice. I’m thinking about subbing out some of the perlite for pumice, especially in the top half of the container. It holds moisture longer and doesn’t rise to the top. But then I remind myself not to be too concerned about the mix getting too dry in summer, I can just mulch the top to retain moisture. I need to make sure whatever mix I use can handle the heavy rain we get as well. A few of you have mention that you water every other day during the summer with 511. How often do you water in the winter?

Sounds like a good mix persimmonbob. Keep us informed on how it works for you. I'm planning a similar mix this year. I found the rice hulls at the hydro store here.

How long do you think a mix like that will last before have to repot?

AMLeo also has rice hulls. I can't find my notes, but iirc, for growing, you want parboiled RH, and I believe that brand is parboiled.

I was concerned about how they degrade over time, as opposed to perlite.

Alanna - I totally agree with you, one needs to bear in mind where someone is growing! People in 'citrus country' have certain advantages built-in.