Lipstick is indeed cute. So why ban it?

I am enjoying this discussion, so in the spirit of pure mischief, how far can this thing go?

The arched door draws extra attention to the garden outside, echoing the organic curve of the tree and opening the room up.

The White House, Koringberg, Western Province, South Africa

Gaudi meets Hobbiton in an Earth House:

The rationale for the arch-based structure can be found at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_house

Arches R Us. The Zeitz Museum of Contemporary Art Africa (MOCAA) in Cape Town. Architect Thomas Heatherwick.

Good aesthetics often have proper functional underpinnings. That does not mean that the function must necessarily still exist. The aesthetic must tell a functional story though. Even when we can't pinpoint the specific gap in the story our mind will know that the gap exists and this creates a bit of discombobulation that makes us uncomfortable with the aesthetic.

Shutters. When their design sticks to the functional underpinnings (size, proper hinges, slat orientation, etc.) then they look aesthetically pleasing and they work from a design standpoint even if they are not functional. When they are too small or large for the window, even by a little, then they loose their aesthetic appeal and look silly. If they have no hinges or the slats are oriented incorrectly they look like silly frippery.

Stone Foundation. We largely do poured concrete foundation walls today (or some still use cement block). So, stone applied over that is no longer functional but purely aesthetic. When it follows the function it looks good. When it does not follow the former function, when it is only on the facade and you can see that it doesn't go around to other sides, when it is only on a portion of the facade but not in a way that makes sense from stones former function then it looks like silly frippery.

Stone Wing. Stone veneer on a wing of a house can, if done properly, tell a story of that wing being the original house and then the wood sections added later. There cannot be illogical gaps in the story though. Every surface that would have been stone must be stone as otherwise our mind sees those gaps and the whole thing falls apart. It becomes... silly frippery.

I could go on and on.

Many average people can look at a structure that violates these and know that it is not necessarily aesthetically appealing but won't be able to note a specific reason why. If you then fill in the gaps by sizing the shutters properly and mounting them on hinges and adjust the stone foundation to only where it would have been functionally then suddenly it looks appealing to the person who had no idea why it didn't look appealing before.

We can veer from this functional underpinning but that is fraught with danger and we must tread carefully. Arches as a pure design element can work quite well but we must be careful since they will no longer have... functional underpinnings.

The cornices of Dutch buildings had some function but the design was purely for aesthetics and they work quite well. But they can also be overdone and that is something that Dutch architects try to be careful with today.

Did someone say arches?

Its not the arch; its the architect.

Funniest web site in captivity: 50 States of McMansion Hell

It'll be the best hour you ever wasted.

What a great site JDS. It is funny and so true. Thanks for posting it.

Interesting discussion. And thanks to whomever posted that McMansion blog. It's hilarious! ETA: Oh, posted again. cool.

This is my favorite:

I love it too. Who is that man? Can I marry him?

i've long long passed the point where finishes my mother installed are dated, and some have come back again... wish i had her danish modern sofa.... passed the point where things i wished i could have afforded in my first house are dated. now reached the point where things I did do are dated, in my last house. but i'm optimistic enough to think that the things i've done in the last 5 years in my current house will stand the test of time and never need to be replaced.

yeah, rite.

McMansion Hell is a female blogger.

I think it's dated things that give a house identity and character.

Really? I thought I saw a male pic on the blog, or was that a subterfuge, or are my eyes wonky? Quite possibly the latter.

As for your comment, it all depends on how one defines "dated". All such discussions depend on definitions but none of us have the energy to go through that semantic stuff.

All I know is the owner of McMansion Hell is Kate Wagner.

There's a photo on the site of Ronald Reagan.

She also does reviews of good architecture and discusses architectural history, She's very good.

Well, to some, I think "dated" is euphemistic for "I think that's ugly".

But the issues with the pejorative usage of "dated"= "ugly" is that for most of the people who use it, it seems that things become ugly solely because they are not current. And, if by some machination that very same thing is the latest thing in Spring 2020, all the sudden that very thing won't be ugly anymore. Because it's not dated, it's current.

Are these colors ugly? I realize you have to make allowances for not liking blue, but this is the color of the sky, the ocean, etc.

But because it's a bathtub, it needs to be "Put in the landfill where it belongs" or "taken out like a bad habit".

I doubt that it's ugly because it's blue, it's ugly because it's a bathtub and it's blue and blue bathtubs are not new so they are bad. People may argue that it should be replaced because it's old ,but I doubt the argument would be quite the same if it were a white bathtub of identical vintage and condition.

And I guarantee you that one of the wall colors that will get suggested for the all new all white bathroom that replaces the above will be one of the colors found in the above composite, and that will be fine, because it's not on the bathtub, it's on the wall.

Well said palimpsest.

And then there's the blue bathtub and sink you shared as a kid with the rest of your family. Some things you just need to put behind you.

i have that sink in my current bathroom.... THANK HEAVENS mine is white. : )

missing the left towel bar, but otherwise pristine condition.

Ya know what's dated? Mirrors like this one ...and don't even get me started on the hippie dippie tassels and the rug is too small.........

Meh whatever you need to put behind you from your childhood is not the bathtub's fault. Especially if it's not even the exact same bathtub.

Fault? Your taste is not something you adopt; it comes from a lifetime of experiences.

Wow JDS you've transported me... my grandma had that exact bathroom but the fixtures were Mamie pink. She also loved pink. And the bathroom had a laundry chute to the basement.

Meanwhile bathroom of my childhood was avocado green. With carpeting. Shag. It was groovy.

It was fun: my mom got to decorate the whole house EXCEPT for the formal living room. My dad got to decorate that. The formal living room was totally different. Very MCM and could be transported to the future and look current (except maybe the shag carpet).

Your taste is not something you adopt; it comes from a lifetime of experiences.

I think this is true only for some people. I think there are plenty of people who have no particular developed taste. They like what is current, popular, and what people tell them they should like at any given time. No more, no less.

If you are someone whose taste is developed from a lifetime experience I believe it would follow that you would be less concerned about "dated" because the evolution of your taste is cumulative, and less based on current trends.

I liked my parent's blue tub and sink and toilet when I was a kid. I was disappointed when they replaced the sink and toilet and got rid of the white Formica counter with the tiny gold flecks and gold threads. It went so well with the 4 inch white tile with the gold flecks! I can't remember what they replaced the counter with but it must have been not as interesting as the original.

A small company has just started reproducing glitter laminate. And Daltile never stopped making the tile with the gold speckles. So you could recreate it in the right house. My house originally had the tile. I found pieces of it in the wall, but I passed for the renovation because I didn't think it was quite right for the house even originally. The builder chose finishes and it was not typical of the architect to use glitter surfaces.

HEY, here's the old family home! (it used to be white with black shutters). The blue and white bathroom even still has the old glitter tile on the walls!

Sounds like a discussion of nostalgia, and not a discussion of items which were initially designed well or aged well...:-)

Virgil, the thread is evolving (or devolving?) ;-)

What I want to know is who is designing all these houses with inappropriate arches and humongous roofs with too many angles? Someone had to come up with the original design, I suspect some licensed architects were involved, just not very good ones.

And another thing, what does the woman who runs McMansion Hell have against garages? She makes jokes about car holes, especially ones that can hold 3 cars. Is there some sort of architect rule that garages are a no-no? They aren't all as big as the houses they're attached to. Garages are a necessary evil up here where it snow.

Ah yes, now I see Reagan. And heavens to Betsy, the lady is in her early twenties -- 23 on one site I noted, but I don't know the date of the entry. She has sarcastic genius of the kind that usually takes decades to develop.

The "hold my beer" dialogue made me laugh harder than I have in decades. I can't think of it without laughing. Not everything she says rings true but what does is priceless. You can support her and get access to more serious critiques, etc. through a link to Pateron.

PS I think I've had this conversation many times but it ends with "I'm looking for the drawings". Her version is better.

"...What I want to know is who is designing all these houses with inappropriate arches and humongous roofs with too many angles? Someone had to come up with the original design, I suspect some licensed architects were involved, just not very good ones..."

I doubt that many architects have had anything to do with the majority of tract builder's subdivisions, or even the half-dozen houses from the small residential builder. Many builders tend to simply rebuild and redecorate what they have done for the past five years or so.

"...And another thing, what does the woman who runs McMansion Hell have against garages? She makes jokes about car holes, especially ones that can hold 3 cars. Is there some sort of architect rule that garages are a no-no? They aren't all as big as the houses they're attached to. Garages are a necessary evil up here where it snow..."

It's not the garages are a no-no. It's that in many subdivisions and the houses built by small specialty builders, the garage is simply a projecting snout garage whose scale, proportions and bulk simply dwarf the rest of the house used for living. The all too frequent result, as seen from the curb, is a humongeous garage with a little house attached.

I agree with bpathome restrain, balance and scale will age well, the other advise for longevity is flexibility If you find element that you would like to incorporate that ate trendy you can if you love them but you should give yourself the chance to easily change such items, you can always make a statement with paint, but having to redo your kitchen every 5 years is not practical or easy on the wallet

in the meantime, stay away from black appliances, all black kitchens, reclaimed slab door kitchen cabinet doors, stainless steel appliances ( soon to be replaced) stainless steel in general including bar pulls

cider maple cabinets, espresso kitchens

the combination of black absolute counter with white shaker kitchen and subway tile backsplash

And not only in America. Oh look! Someone squished a little house in between the garages! Isn't that sweet?

Somebody please tell me tray ceilings will go away. I fail to see the point of 95% of them. There are always exceptions, of course.

I absolutely HATE the snout nosed, garage in your face, designs. Rented one once (there always seems to be a squashed family room behind them) while we built our much more tasteful plain old 2 story rectangle with an attached 3 car garage facing sideways. No dormers, all windows the same, (though she probably would have had a problem with that little square one in the pantry between the garage and house). lol

She's probably bitch about our current ranch home we're building though. The house part is 48 feet long and the garage is 36 feet long. There are 2 large rooms in the garage adjacent to the house though. But no dormers!! ;-p

@Anthony Perez. what will stainless appliances be replaced by? Is white coming back? Or will everything be covered with matching cabinet fronts? I'm hoping to put white appliances in my new build. I just don't "get" the popularity of stainless except for the kitchen sink. I think it stinks that white usually costs more than the stainless versions. I'm taking regular types of appliances, not the professional styles. Unless you're a dang fine chef, (on a few occasions I can rise to the challenge) I don't really see the appeal of those either. lol

I doubt that many architects have had anything to do with the majority of tract builder's subdivisions,

Maybe, but I know for a fact that one major designer of the huge custom Mansion antecedent of the McMansion in the general region I grew up in is a licensed architect. And his website is full of examples. I know someone who got into trouble with him because he guaranteed them he could design a historically pure classical house with authentic details. He couldn't: he had no idea what they were, and when the historian client and I showed him the actual details he insisted they were wrong and that's not how he did it.

A license does not guarantee taste. The individual who had among the worst esthetic tendencies in my design program was accepted to a good architecture program. Perhaps they got rid of those tendencies in her program, but perhaps not: no one seemed to be able to educate her out of them in design school.

I agree that most of this stuff is probably not designed by licensed architects, but a license alone is not enough to guarantee that an architect won't.

I'm currently trying to educate someone out of poor aesthetic tendencies in another field altogether. Cannot be done, I fear, except that the young may mature beyond them. Tolling of bells.

Buzz Solo Yes i think the stainless will be replaced by white and panel ready to match the cabinet appliances, I too agree that the stainless sometimes ruins the look of the kitchen it takes away from being more uniform and consistent, Also if you use white appliances in a white kitchen they blend a lot more

Most of the " professional" appliances in the market are really not professional except some features, they will not be efficient in a commercial setting

"...I agree that most of this stuff is probably not designed by licensed architects, but a license alone is not enough to guarantee that an architect won't..."

Yes, it's true. Someone always graduates last in their architectural class.

Well I do agree with staying with what works. The arches work well when used with traditional hacienda/ casita and Mediterranean type homes and buildings. True Victorian style homes, Tudor, Ranch style and many of the classics are styles tried and true to their architectural styles so we know they work are beautiful in design if not messed with. The Mcmansions seem largely to be the result of custom builds that don't really fit into any termed category with a ton of the owner or builders favorite design features stuffed into them lol

Check out these old Indian pueblos I find them pretty cool, the only design that can pull off the flat roof style I think.

following

I think modernist and deco-moderne or streamline can carry off flat roofs

And so can someone early 19th c. styles.

For buildings and commercial property architecture I see those other flat roof styles useful but residential, I don't think they look that nice unless there is very heavy use of the glass windows and proper balcony placements which seems pretty difficult to design one of those things must take ages!

I live in an urban environment, so even if it doesn't have a flat roof, most things are designed to look as if they do. My 1838 building had a shallow gambrel roof hidden behind a parapet.

But even these non-urban examples of modernism of various sorts are flat roofed:

International Style (Marcel Breuer)

Art Deco

1930s modernism (Wells House)

1980, late modernism (Irving Tobocman)

Richard Neutra

Deco Modern Philadelphia

1958 Bauhaus Minneapolis

Fisher House

Korman House