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kvetchlambkin

Bad Meyer root structure (Record Buck Farms)

8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

Hi all,

Since last fall I kept saying I would repot my Meyer but I never did even after I saw it go through a crazy ride from serious decline to resurrection. The slow slow arrival of warm temperatures makes me so eager to put my tree outside though!

I read the thread about everyone sharing their experiences with Record Buck Farm trees and I hope my Meyer's story will help give an idea of what their trees might be like. Above ground my tree looked full and lush when I first bought it but I see now that underneath it all was a horrible starting root framework. My poor tree cutting was probably rooted in a small 2" container and left in there for far too long, becoming root bound before they increased the pot size. There's no other way roots that thick would curl inwards the way it did.

Here's what I found

When I first repotted it last fall, I kept the nursery soil on the root ball and found that due to a Tstorm knocking the tree over earlier during summer, the root ball was only a few inches long. But I saw new root tips poking out of that 4" tall root ball so I was hopeful that it would grow out during the winter rest. And it did! This whole time it was growing out a new mass of roots because the original top 4" of roots is a complete nightmare.

The roots originating from the stem cut are thick maybe 1/4" in diameter (I'm a bad judge of visualizing measurements though). Those thick roots partially wrapped around each other and in the center of it all was a hard mass of black soil or peat that wouldn't wash off under running water. A toothpick was necessary to break and push them out in small pieces. Taking my time with the toothpick, the chunk would stay shiny and swampy and I could tell the initial length of the roots were already soggy and peeling. There were also many smaller dead roots branching off from the thick ones. Those small roots pierced through the chunk of soil but probably kept dying from the compaction or staying too wet in the soil chunk. It took awhile to see empty space between those roots. Luckily for me, the roots were thick enough that some were still white when I cut through them.

I pruned a lot of the thick roots that were too soft or hooking around in strange directions. I untangled them and tried to isolate each branched system so they'll grow in opposite directions. I accidentally cut off and lost one of those branched systems. The thick roots kept crossing over and under each other and tricked my eyes.

Finally satisfied I put a rock in the center of the gap. The loopy root in the front wants to go inwards and backwards, the opposite direction it sprouted from. Hopefully the rock will change that with time. My plan with the rock is to also prevent another hard ball of peat forming incase the roots wants to curl and girdle each other again.

My post is much too long but I hope this isn't what you find in any of your Record Buck Farms trees. What do you guys do to help your rooted cuttings grow and spread out nicely? I can't remember who posted it but I remember seeing a photo of someone's fig cutting grown above a bucket to make its roots wrap around.

Comments (13)

  • 8 years ago

    Your tree will do fine.

    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked poncirusguy6b452xx
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks Steve! I'm pretty confident it'll do much better than it previously was even if I accidentally pruned too much. Even with the twisted root ball it chugged along fine but now I hope it will finally have regular cycles of vegetative flushes

  • 8 years ago

    I had to repot a Eureka lemon tree from Record Bucks last weekend. I was in such a hurry that I didn't even examine it as well as you did. I just know that it is very small. My tree is a cutting and the roots hasn't grown any since I first planted it into one of my pots 2 years ago. I am tempted to throw it out, but can't do it after spending almost $40.

    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked Denise Becker
  • 8 years ago

    Kvetch, thanks for letting us know.

    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
  • 8 years ago

    Sorry to hear that Denise :( How large is your tree and what size pot has it been in for these last 2 years? It doesn't sound like your tree is declining but I can understand wanting to throw it out too. When I saw new root tips poking out of my tree during last fall's inadequate repot, I had watered it in a unique way to try to push root growth. The watering method I came up with is an option you can try if you want.

    Back then, I had read Tapla's thread about water perching, how tall the perched level is, and how it's bad for container growing. I had seen my tree's rootball break in a storm and I wanted the roots to regrow further down into the pot because the tree kept wanting to flop over. It would take a long time for the container to start drying out too with the deep soak/dry method. So I watered with a wicking method as if it was a training program to try to encourage the roots to push its limit. I set my tree on top of milk crate and put a bottle of water directly underneath the tree and crate. Then I put one end of a shoelace into the bottom hole of the tree pot and fed the shoelace through one of the crate holes into the bottle of water. The tree sat on top of the crate for the rest of summer and fall with the bottle of water underneath. The perched water starts where ever the bottled water level is and extend upwards. I added just enough water so the perched level ended right on the very bottom tip of the broken rootball. The roots initially get their drink but as the water in the bottle decreased, the perched water level would drop down too.

    So my theory was that the perched water would be a dangling carrot and always be barely out of range from the roots. Growing a centimeter or two every so often shouldn't be too demanding for the tree. It wicked that way for a few months into fall then got repot and that's where I saw small new root tips pointing out of the broken rootball. Then indoors for winter it was watered normally from above once every 1-2 weeks with a long neglectful drought period sometime in mid-winter lol. I've had my tree since last August until now, not long at all. So this watering method may or may not work for you but it definitely made it easier to keep it hydrated during the extremely hot weather.

  • 8 years ago

    Kvetch, the tree is the same size as the day I purchased it. I have no die back at all which gives me hope that it can do better. After the initial purchase, I put it into a 14" pot not knowing that the root ball was really small. I just slipped it out of the existing pot into a larger one thinking it would grow like my others. I never had a problem with trees not growing before until I purchased this one. Last week I put it into a 1 gallon pot with different soil to see if there would be improvement. This year I am going to use more Foliage Pro to see if it would encourage it to grow.

    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked Denise Becker
  • 8 years ago

    The RBF eureka I purchased from HD last month had a huge root system, was very pot bound. It looked like it was a carry over from last year. We’ll see how it does this summer

    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked Kelley_GA8a
  • 8 years ago

    Let us know how your tree does with the down pot Denise. It should definitely be able to grow in the 1 gallon pot this year!

    Lucky you got such a nice RBF tree Kelley! Maybe it won't be so bad to get another RBF in the future

  • 8 years ago
    Thanks Kvet, though I wouldn’t call it “nice”. It was a rescue lol. It was starting to grow new leaves after completely defoliating, and the newest growth is falling off. I wish I had taken a picture, but the tree probably should have been in a 3+ gal pot.
    kvetchlambkin (nyc 7b) thanked Kelley_GA8a
  • 8 years ago

    Generally whenever i get a new tree i bareroot and repot in 511 .N esp for RBF i do it without fail their mix is pretty soggy and i have had root rot on two 15 gallon ones which being large pots i was a bit daunted, after that i ensure am barerooting rt after i buy it.

  • 5 years ago

    You made the right decision removing the original soil. Replace it with 60:40 sand:peat and you won't get that hard mess of peat (or "death zone" as I like to call it) in the centre of the pot. It will also keep your roots from going everywhere to seek oxygen.

  • 5 years ago

    You said bad or good rootstock??? Well, I wonder the same thing when I get a tree 3 times from the same company and they all die every year in a potted situation...