Thanks Nancy, I do understand your frustrations and what you're trying to convey and I totally get that. My question still stands though, which you never really addressed? Judging by your response I'm guessing there isn't any documentation on why the winners were picked? and one can only guess?

The only documentation is how many votes the winner and each runner up got and which regions those votes came from.

Could you take a crack at guessing a few of the major break through s on the list and why they possibly won please.

Personally I'd say Rose F. Kennady won because of large green throat. Sure it's pretty but why? Some others I'd say are because of the break through in pinks like Janice brown, Barbra mitchell, Becky lynn, which i'm assuming were some of the best pinks of their times. Stella deora I guess cause its one of the first rebloomers.

I have wondered too, I have never been that impressed with Ed Brown. Very, very slow to increase, modest number of blooms. Probably a very nice bloom for the time, it is pretty, but I would expect more than a pretty face. Frances Fay is another, much better plants around at that time

Ed Brown is the cornerstone of modern daylilies with fancy edges. I believe Salter said it would put edges on a fencepost.

Some of the older ones such as Ed Brown may have been breakthroughs for their time, but have since been surpassed. Just as a model T can't be judged against a Honda. I suspect you may be looking for some clinical or technical reason that a daylily won. In the flower biz, even though there is a tiered hierarchy for awards, some of it is not objective but also subjective. DiVinci's Last Supper Versus Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel for example ...........Maryl

Well, this is obviously controversial water to enter into, but I agree with you, Nancy, that a number of choices have been questionable. Rose F. Kennedy has been a difficult plant (three years at two fans). Is the plant's hybridizing potential supposed to be a factor? It was always my impression that that was not supposed to be a primary factor. Dorothy and Toto has been problematic here. J. T. Davis may have been a great hybridizing plant, but is very short here. Of course, it is difficult for anyone to single out just one cultivar for an award. So inevitably, the picks will be controversial. I do believe, though, that northern climes have been shortchanged by the process. And yes, big hybridizing operations have been favored, though sometimes I sense that a plant is being chosen because it is time for this or that hybridizer to get an award.

Yea I'd say it's controversial and very opinion based seeing that there isn't any documentation on why these were selected, I'm not here to judge, and would love to hear those opinions.

I'm mainly just curious on your opinions at this point seeing as there isn't any documentations on these cultivars, as to why they won. I totally understand that most if not all these cultivars have been surpassed. Again, I'm just curious as to why they won, and I can only guess and would love to hear opinions on them as I don't own many of them. I also understand that they might not be the best of their time or hold up well to the test of time, but again I'm just interested in your thoughts of why a particular cultivar may have won seeing how there isn't documentation on it. Please take a shot at guessing some?

I have a few of these, so here's my guesses & opinion:

Ed Brown: the edging; I would have never pick it. Boring, doesn't do well--not many flowers, doesn't always bloom, slow to increase. Gave mine away.

Primal Scream: Wonderful bright color, interesting form. I may have picked it, but it doesn't increase well, only average number of blooms, and could be taller.

Elizabeth Salter: Lots of blooms, nice [though not exceptional] color, good edging, good increaser. I may have picked it, depending on the competition.

Always Afternoon: Not sure why. It was short, average color & bloomer. Got rid of it.

Barbara Mitchell: For its pretty color, a good reliable bloomer. I may have picked it, depending on the competition.

Fairy Tale Pink: Probably for the color. It is an average bloomer, quick increaser. I would not have picked it. I have kept it but not a favorite at all.

Strawberry Candy: Not sure why--maybe because the Candy series was all the rage for a while. Short, often blooms well but not always, reblooms sometimes. Fair color. I would not have picked it.

Becky Lynn: Great pink color, blooms well, increases well, but a bit short. I may have picked it, depending on the competition.

Stella: repeat blooms. I would never have picked it. Too short, ugly color, would need split too often. I don't have it.

Also, I have North Wind Dancer but not for very long, so I can't evaluate it. From the postings here is very pretty and a very good bloomer, but it leans.

I also got Webster's Pink Wonder from Dick last year, but too soon to evaluate. I suspect at least its amazing large size is part of the reason it was chosen.

I don't have Rose F Kennedy, but I suspect it was chosen for its green throat. I do like large green throats, but its overall appeal is not to my liking, plus I don't hear good things about here on the forum. I would not have picked it.

Personal opinion: would choose only cultivars that: have lots of blooms, reliable, relatively tall, large flowers, preferably rebloomers, good to increase, nice form and color. I know tall and large flower are more subjective as is what a good color, edging, or form are. but the others [lots of flowers, reliable, good increaser, rebloomer] are objective and most could agree.

The same can be said of any competition, anywhere. Do you hear why judges chose which film for an Oscar, over the other nominees? Nope. Do you hear why one scientist is chosen for the Nobel Prize, over the other nominees? Nope. You just hear what a great discovery it was. It would be uncouth to rub the 'why' in the faces of the other nominees, and allow them room to argue. Very uncivilized. Better to keep these things secret.

I grow many of these so called Stout Award winner daylilies. Considering this goes all the way back to the 40's I am guessing that there weren't the thousands of growers registering plants that there are now and even a small change or "new" feature would garner approval . That is how the daylily society and the plant itself keep evolving .

Some of the plants mentioned are beauties in their own right but may not have all the bells and whistles that the new ones do . That coupled with "what is in fashion" at the time would I am sure guide the choices of the award winners . As well one would have to be an AHS member to have their plant chosen.

I for one am not a member ( although I was for a very short time ) so any plant that I would hybridize would not even be considered no matter what it looked like.

I look at the Stout Award list as a guide line for what was in fashion at the time . Nothing more nothing less.

As a side note and not really related to the Stout Award, the one thing I wish was included in a plant registration is the location that the plant was hybridized in. It would make choosing a plant so much easier and increase the possibility that the plant might do well in certain locations as compared to other locations .

Great point Heather, would be info that would really be useful.

That has been my complaint for a long time. What I didn't know was that the AHS has a list of hybridizers with their addresses. When I first found it, it was seriously out of date, but the new registrar has gotten it updated now. It's on the members' portal so it doesn't help you if you are not a member. Even giving the first name of the hybridizer would help you do a search on your own.

Doubtlessly, different plants appeal to different people. I believe Entwined In The Vine won in 2018. I happen to have all of the winners from North Wind Dancer up through Entwined in the Vine. I believe Rose F Kennedy was a northern hybridized plant, and I bought only one fan of it since I really liked the big green throat that didn't please Brad but I have shared it with one person on the forum and it has a had a dozen fans at the beginning of the season and may well have more. It does well here and stalls for Mantis. It also has many blooms here. IN fact, North Wind Dancer is a lovely bloom but I it is actually leaving simply because it leans so very much. Entwined in the Vine is gorgeous, a good increaser, a wonderful bloomer., but my garden results are not likely to translate everywhere. (I have blooms still and it is now seven months since my first bloom in the garden. I have only once known the plant I bought was a Stout before I bought it. I like big blooms and intense colors and that is what I buy.

kay