A pot instead of a rock, yes! I hadn't thought of that Beverly. Thanks!

I agree that it is a small extension of a bed, but if the hosta should grow well there, I plan to extend the beds even further! If I had my way, I would remove most of the grass in my front yard. I just worry that I will find a lot of roots to work around and that holds me back.

Adding compost and pine bark fines to the clay soil sounds great. I can always find some kind of compost, but I haven't found pine bark fines in my area. What size would the bark pieces be in that? I can get pine bark nuggets or pine bark mulch. Which do you think would work better?

Mixing in Triple Blend, or better, (bagged or loose) with your native soil/clay would also improve the earth greatly (my favourite method) and the worms would love it! I know a gardener who adds compost every spring and fall (topical application) and swears by it. Since I do all my own grunt work, I opt for the easiest and most efficient method which is to mix in bags of great soil! But I would love to use compost! With this heat, easy breezy is the answer for me.

NHL, twice I have posted and twice my posts disappeared... to say that your extended bed looks great and will look amazing once you have planted your additions!

We have RAIN! It is thundering and rain scheduled for the remainder of the day. Not a downpour... a wonderful, gentle rain. Thank you for relenting, Mother Nature! Now git over to the UK - Dave has been waiting!

You could put 6-8 inches of compost on the entire bed, raising it up. You could also remove all the not so good soil from the bed, then add 6-10 inches of compost. But the easiest thing to do is to dig a hole for each hosta that is larger than you think the roots will reach (because they always get larger than expected), then fill the hole with pure compost and plant in that. It's a pot without a pot, basically. When I say compost, I don't mean the type that comes in plastic bags, I mean the type you can get at a landfill. The stuff in the bags is usually heavier than the landfill type, but it's also likely to introduce all sorts of weeds to your garden.

I don't have much experience with this, but I'll give my 2-cents worth (and that may be all it's worth!). If I were going to amend, I'd do the whole area. Last year I thought I'd try amending as I planted - in the hole. Several of those hostas that I planted that way have: heaved in the winter and/or been inundated by tree roots... unlike those I had planted the year before, in which I just dug the hole and planted without adding any amendments.

I thought I was doing something good by giving each plant something additional last year, but ended up making it a problem... I wonder if the tree roots are just more attracted? Anyway, I've had to lift a number of them this year, and either replant or pot.

Like I said - not much experience, but that's my observation. I am thinking that this fall (after the leaves are gone) maybe I'll get a load of compost and spread it on all the beds, as a one-time thing. The garden kind-of got away from me this year, since I had to be gone quite a bit in the spring. Then it became unbearably hot to do much heavy work out there, so I never mulched as I had intended. Most of my new plants are still in pots, and I feel like I'm just trying to keep everything alive in this heat. The weeds have invaded! I can only weed small sections at a time, and put a little bagged mulch on each area as I go along.... I don't really want to buy a big load of mulch in the fall, and then have to do it again in the spring. So, since my soil is very definitely clay (although improving a bit every year), maybe a dressing of compost - to hopefully work itself in over the winter, and then I can mulch as usual in the spring.

If anyone has experience doing that... or an opinion... I'd love to hear it.

I also put a good 6 inches or more compost over the entire bed before planting and add a shovel full to each planting hole as I go, then I mulch. That way I don't have to do anything but watch the plants grow for approx. 6 years.

After that I can pull back the mulch and add another inch or two of compost.

Wow you have good dirt for 5 inches, then clay? We have nothing but clay unless you put something else on top of it. Six inches of good dirt should be plenty. For my new beds, I don't even bother to dig down. I remove the grass, add an edge, then add 2-3 inches of compost, soil pep, and/or organic raised bed mix (not the kind with perlite). When i want to plant something in it, I dig down below that layer somewhat and then try to remove more clay in the planting hole, then replace with good dirt. I toss the hardest clay into a secret place or the trash can!

I have also heard that gypsum is good for mixing in when you have clay soils. If only I could find where I put that!

Josephine, what is "Triple Blend"? Just curious. It sounds intriguing.

That's going to look good when filled with hosta!

We also have clay in the front bed, a leftover from street construction. I chopped it to small pieces and mixed with good bagged soil and there are hosta growing in that spot now. Small ones like Golden Tiara and Lemon Lime, a bigger Royal Standard and Praying Hands.

Thanks Jo for posting your thoughts three times!!! I always love to hear what you have to say!

I had to try twice to get this discussion posted. I note that others have had trouble too. What's up with that?

My husband came home with several bags of triple mix! What a coincidence! I have always thought that the triple mix was a mixture of soil, peat moss and manure. But I see that what he purchased is a mixture of humus, peat moss composted manure. Sounds good to me. I am glad to know that it has worked well for you. And so it should be good for me too!

I would love to use compost too, but it doesn't seem as easily found.

I am glad you got some rain. We got some in the late afternoon. It didn't last for long enough though. I am thinking of Dave also.

dhaven, I am really surprised that it is possible to plant in compost, just compost. Boy would I like to do an experiment to see the growth difference between a hosta planted in only compost and another in a mixture. I don't have access to the type of compost you seem to have. But I think I will have to do some searching in my area and see what kind of compost I can find.

I am only able to raise the bed a certain amount because it cannot be higher than the existing bed. As I continue to dig the area, I will decide about whether I should remove some of the poor soil. Just don't know where I can get rid of it!

windymess, your experience is interesting. Worth way more than 2 cents! LOL! I like hearing about your experience.

Your experience of just digging a hole can create problems. In my case I have an area with tree roots. So I have resorted to using spin out bags there. When we get a lot of rain I think the bags get filled with water because the earth around the bag is compacted. So I know what you mean when you say digging just a hole created a problem. Are the roots attracted to the amended hole? Well, they sure seem to find their way to the "good stuff."

I think some compost would do wonders for your garden. I have not been able to keep up with garden work as I would like to. Too hot here too! I seem to feel so tired and drained. I am hoping I can get some energy going when the heat has left us. Keep up the good work in the garden. I am sure it looks a lot better than you think. And you're not alone---I still have new hostas in pots too!

Peren.all, thanks for letting me know about the compost also. What kind of compost are you using?

Popmama, I guess I have decent soil for about five inches. My house was built in the 1960's. It was a woodland area. Maybe that has something to do with it? Or maybe back then they used to put down more soil before adding sod. Glad to hear that you think my bed will be deep enough.

Karin, thanks for the vote of confidence! I am so glad to hear that the hosta can grow well in amended clay soil!

I use homemade compost if I have enough, (which I never do) and mushroom compost.

Homemade compost! Priceless!

Popmama, the triple blend I was referring to in general could have different properties as NHL mentioned above (the bags her husband purchased for example). The triple mix I usually try to use is made up of Compost, sandy soil, and black loam. (My family used to vegetable-farm and the black soil was my favourite to bring home to add to my gardens...bags and bags full!.)

Different stores carry a variety of "blends"/mixes as I like to call it. I keep price in mind when purchasing and pick up whatever is available. A year or two ago Wal-Mart was carrying something with 4 blends but I'll be darned if I can recall what it was! Again, bagged premium soil is a simple solution for a city dwelling gardener such as myself - easy enough to carry or stack onto a hand trolley.

NHL, the mix your husband brought home - he obviously put some thought into his purchase of a premium soil. :-)

I have hard clay soil on top of slate. The pine bark fines work miracles. I could not find the fines this year, but found some nice pine bark mulch that was the size of nickels and quarters that also worked well. The nuggets seem too big around to me. Walmart had an American something in a clear bag that also did OK. Their white bag had some rather long pieces, but I used that too.

Steve--if you have a lumber/timber company, or even a tree service in your area, they might be willing to sell you some pine bark fines. Worth a few calls, at any rate, and most of the guys I have met who own or work at these places are very accommodating.

Newhostalady--I first tried the pure compost as a planting medium a couple of years ago. Got a ton for $20 from the local landfill to use as a soil amendment, and it was so well 'cooked' and evenly blended that I decided to fill a small new bed 8 inches deep in the stuff and try it straight, no soil added. I had a nice Blue Boy that I whacked into double divisions that had adequate but fairly short roots, and I planted those in the compost bed and watered it well. A few weeks later I dug some of these up for a charity plant sale. I was astonished to find that these double divisions with short roots had produced an umbrella shaped bunch of roots arching out and down from the crown, already 5-6 inches long. This year those double divisions are all 6-8 division clumps, and also noticeably taller than Blue Boy planted in regular soil in the same area.

I think the key to this is to be sure that the compost you use is very completely composted or cooked, not still hot. Last fall and this spring I added about 1800 square feet to the garden, cleared the ground then dumped loads of compost 10-12 inches thick, and planted a few hostas. This spring I added quite a few hostas, astilbes, bleeding heart, and a pretty good variety of other perennials to the area, and all are doing very well indeed. No burning, no wilt, just apparently happy plants.

The triple mix you get Jo sounds good. Interesting how the ingredients differ. I agree that purchasing bags is very convenient especially when amending a smaller area. Much easier for a woman to lug around these bags! Here is a picture of what the triple mix I purchased says on the bag:

I was also able to find a 4 in 1 bagged mix at Loblaws. Perhaps your Zehr's carries it Jo? There are selling half price now.

Steve the pine bark mulch you found sounds perfect!! That is exactly what is very difficult to find where I am. I'll take a picture of the mulch I have when I go out later.

dhaven didn't see your last post. Off to make supper. Will respond later!

Don, so you can call your garbage provider and see if they would sell you compost from the landfill? How do you know it’s cooked correctly? Guess it’s only doable if you have or rent a pick up truck

I have one bag of this pine bark mulch.

dhaven, the results with your compost are amazing! That must be good stuff! I will be on the lookout for some wonderful compost and will see what I can find. I picked up one bag of organic compost from a farm supply store. Maybe I should try a couple of experiments with it! I am glad you have had wonderful results with the compost.

I ran across last year's bag half full while working in garden yesterday. NHL, I have used the 4 in 1 in the past also....usually looking for sales when buying more than 5;-). Thanks for the sale tip! I have both stores close by, so timely...I am moving and replanting a few seedlings etc.

That looks like good stuff Jo!

Here is a photo of the compost I got:

Here is a write up of it:

This premix can be used directly from the bag to grow your plants. Compost is a mixture of Ontario sedge peat, peat humus and compost.

• Can be used on its own or added to existing soil. Use in Gardens, lawns and planting trees
• Certified approved input for organic growing, environmentally friendly, no contaminants, supports safe and healthy green spaces
• Increases existing soils ability to retain water and decrease runoff
• Makes soil more manageable to work with
• Encourages healthy root systems
• Provides much needed nutrients to plants
• Attract beneficial worms that burrow through soil keeping it well aerated while continuing to enhance soil fertility

What I find frustrating is that the bags often don't state what is actually in them. And if they do, they don't let you know the percentage of the ingredients in them. It seems like a big secret. I even called up one company to ask them about product they made. They would not tell me the percentage of even one ingredient!

I am off to visit the Tree Forum. I am finding a lot of roots and would like to have their opinion about the possible removal of some of them.

Please be aware that peat moss is not sustainable, which is why I stopped using it. England is phasing out the sale of peat moss, and it will be completely banned sometime between 2020 and 2030. Sphagnum accumulates at a very slow rate, to add a foot of peat to a peat moss bog takes about 200 years, and that's with ideal conditions. Bogs are drained and the entire top portion removed in order to get to the peat moss, totally destroying the local ecosystem.

On a cheerier note, it is possible to get a rough idea of how much of any ingredient is in a pre-mix. Using a quart jar, add about a cup and a half of mix, fill with water, and shake well. Then set the jar down upright and give it a few hours to settle. The various components will settle into strata according to their relative weight. It's not an exact way to determine how much of what the mix has, but it will give you a good idea. You will have to determine which layer is which component, but usually there is a color difference and the particulate matter will be different sizes, so you can at least make a reasonable guesstimate. This works well for very basic soil testing too. What you are wanting to find is more of the lighter weight layers and less of the very heavy layers.

One of the reasons companies will not divulge their ratio of any given ingredient in a soil mix is that you probably would not be very happy if you knew how some of these products are made. There is little regulation, and although there are reliable companies, there are also plenty of those that give you very little of anything useful to your plants, instead using cheap filler as the bulk of their product.

I thought I'd check the bag again...laughable,

but when all is said and done, perennials have sustained themselves, especially hostas as that is our main focus, for many, many years in all types of earth, from heavy clay to sandy soil, etc. etc.

What a lot of us are doing is attempting to provide the ultimate growing conditions for our beloved plants to ensure success in raising beautiful, healthy plants. When you really think about it, the fact remains that they will grow anywhere...tossed in a compost pile, thrown in the brush pile, left unplanted with their roots exposed all winter (AND survive!) and even survive the "driveway" treatment!

Do they require all our pampering? Not really but we can't help ourselves - a hosta in my opinion is the perfect plant and a perfect plant deserves the "extras". ;-)

dhaven, I found a blog that talks about peat moss. It generally states that:

"It is quite clear that peatlands are not in danger of being depleted. Quite the opposite, 86% of the global peatlands are untouched by humans. We have vast peat reserves and nature is making peat far faster than we are using it for horticulture."

https://www.gardenmyths.com/peat-moss-alternatives/

I love your information about testing a premix! I am going to try it. Hopefully I will be able to understand that I am seeing in the jar. Thanks!

I can't say I am surprised about why companies don't divulge their ratio of any ingredient in their mix. One reason I had thought of was that they didn't want competitors to copy their product. But what you say makes a lot of sense. Sometimes ingredients are listed, but you don't know how much of what is in the bag. Sometimes the ingredients are not listed at all! I generally prefer to buy bags with only one ingredient so that the manufacturer generally has to name the ingredient.

Then there are those marketing gimmicks. I called the manufacturer of "super peat moss" and asked them why they call it "super." And there was no reason. He said it's just what the company calls their product! So wonder consumers are so confused!

Last year I found some pine bark nuggets that were a bit too big, but the best I could find. When I went to purchase another bag, they had a substitute from another company. It said "pine nuggets." The nursery told me they were made of pine bark. But these days who can you trust? So I called the company myself! They confirmed that the bag contained pine bark nuggets. They told me that the company does not state what is in the bag because the bag contains different ingredients depending on where the bag is processed and where the bag is being delivered.

Jo, you said it perfectly! And I agree with you 100 percent!