Quote daninthedirt: "Exactly. My moschatas aren't "solid stem", however. They are hollow stem, but with a smaller hollow and a thicker wall. They are "resistant" to vine borers in the sense that I guess the borers have to work harder. Mine do. Your borers may be more easily deterred."

What I will be planting are Zucchino Rampicante Squash . Maybe they will have a more solid vine to them...it will be interesting to see how they do *and* how they taste!!!! ;)

I'm a big fan of those (aka Tromboncino), they taste great and resist the borers.

Two and three years ago my Tromboncino's bit the dust because of SVBs. But my Texas SVBs are voracious.

P.S. Trombincino's are good. But I've switched over to Tahitian Melon. If you want long necks and small seed cavity, those are wonderful. Excellent taste.

I bet my SVBs can beat up your SVBs!!!!!<grin> The local borers are quick to take down yellow crooked neck. Folks talk about having so much squash that they can't give it away. Me, I hardly have managed to a mess or two out of a planting. Rather disappointing. Maybe the moschatas will help.

lucky_cloud, thanks for the positive review!!!! It's all a learning process for me... :)

It seems that Texas borers are ruthless. There is nothing resistant here it seems.

Again, the word "resistant" has to be understood. Few people seem to understand. "Resistant" means that the squash "resists" the borers. It does not necessarily mean it stops them. You may have lost only one of your late plants BECAUSE they are "resistant". If they weren't "resistant," you might have lost all of them. Moschata ARE SVB resistant. Vastly moreso than zucchini. That does not mean that SVBs won't ever kill Moschata.

"Resistant" does not mean "immune". Wish it did, but it doesn't. Time to shrug and move on.

Yes, I understand the "resistance" aspect. I figure anything to stack some cards against those borers will help! Kind of like "weather-resistant" and "weatherproof"....two very difference things. :)

Good way of explaining "resistance", dirt_tracker! I know people who swear that their deer-repellant noisemakers make their gardens "deer-proof". Ha! They may "resist" deer, but they sure don't stop 'em.

Actually I was away for a week, but came back to find my squash in great shape. Planted out on July 1, now the vines are about 15 feet long. No borer damage at all. So in my neck of the woods, I have more evidence that delayed planting works great. Containertime, you may have just been unlucky to lose one plant, but if you just lost one, the strategy may have helped. I don't have any squash yet (many male flowers), but I have at least four months of growing season left.

I still check everyday just to make sure there are no eggs on the stems or leaves. So far, the remaining plants look great and are about to produce flowers. Fingers crossed they will make it to fall.

Im in Garland. I have had some success using the following methods:

I will plant them very early... in pots early March, or seed them mid-March, and cover them with tarp when we have a freeze. Then they will start producing by late April and you have plenty before the SVBs get going strong in late May.

I'll also grow a fall crop. I put them in just about now (Aug) and cover them with netting. Then when they outgrow the netting, around late Sept I uncover them and by then the SVB pressure is low and you'll be fine. I use tulle netting, its cheap. Foil doesn't work. I have had some success with injecting BT into the stems, but my two techniques above are the simplest.

I planted squash uncovered in early July, and some plants got infected with SVB. The moths will pupate and emerge, so I can't grow a covered crop until September. (If I do grow earlier, the moths will just emerge and fly around inside the netting.) It does seem that the only way to stop the borers is to cover the plants.

This may be the only way for you, but it may not be the only way for others. Again, my squash, planted out on July 1, are fine. Been that way for the last few years. The pupae actually remain in the soil until the following summer. So you won't be able to do a covered crop until next year.

I figured they would pupate over the summer. I meant to say I shouldn't grow a covered crop until September 2019.

No you can cover them now. When new SVB emerge they will be focused on trying to escape so you’ll see them under the cover and you can kill them . Remember they have to find a mate before they lay eggs

I guess if you can be sure that a male and female don't hatch together, yes, that will work. People who routinely cover squash to avoid SVBs don't make that assumption. BTW, when they hatch, they are focused on mating, not trying to escape.

I don't care if they are insects, animals, people, or plants - the reason they live - their goal during their lifetime IS "to reproduce" = else the species will die off.

Have you guys ever put down a cover and accidentally trapped flies or wasps underneath them. You'll see them trying to find a way out, frantically. I've trapped Squash bugs under my covers, and seen them trying to escape... and then killed them by crushing them.

I'm sure if you put covers over the plants, that you will see the SVB moths trying to escape. They are active and fly fast. Up to you... but I'd definitely do it now better than just leave them exposed to the other SVBs flying around.

Were those males or females?

I know that there are currently SVBs in my soil because my current crop infected. I don't want to trap any of the SVBs, so I won't grow a covered crop of squash until after I'm nearly sure that all the SVBs have emerged and escaped which would most likely be around September of next year.

"I don't care if they are insects, animals, people, or plants - the
reason they live - their goal during their lifetime IS "to reproduce" =
else the species will die off."

Exactly gumby_ct. This is a rule that people often forget about plants. Their WHOLE purpose in life is to make more of themselves. Plants do what they do specifically to make seeds. The more the better. Many plants die once that job is done. Others keep trying. Many of our vegetables are in fact seeds, or seed carrying fruit. Leaf veggies that bolt are just trying to do their job.

If I don't grow any squash next year in the container I grew them in this year, can it be guaranteed that all the borers emerged from the soil by the end of next year?

The SVBs that are implanted in your container this year will likely be gone and done by next spring. But if you want to wait until the end of next year, sure.

We're talking containers? Then geez, the pupae burrow about an inch or two into the soil. Just get rid of the top inch or two, or sterilize that soil, and be done with it. In fact, if you just invert the soil in the container, taking the soil off the top and putting it on the bottom, you'll do the job just fine.

"Just get rid of the top inch or two, or sterilize that soil, and be done with it. In fact, if you just invert the soil in the container, taking the soil off the top and putting it on the bottom, you'll do the job just fine."

Yup! You could also cover soil with filter cloth or window screen once seed sprout. The little fellers would be either lucky or smart to find their way to surface. I've had some degree of success wrapping lower part of stem with screen and growing vine on trellis. It seems they don't climb far from soil plus the screen must be uncomfortable. In hope of overheating soil and killing pupae,I may try covering soil with black plastic up until planting. Anyone tried incorporating insecticide into top 1" of soil surrounding plant? I suppose SVB control is a lot like wild pig control,doesn't do much good to eradicate them on your property if the neighbors don't control theirs. ):

I'm not sure that treating soil with insecticide is a good idea. First of all, saturating a lot of soil with it (to ensure contact) means a LOT of insecticide. It's not as if SVB pupae are going to be crawling around, lathering themselves in the stuff. Secondly, most insecticides are broken down pretty rapidly by soil-borne bacteria.

But that's a clever idea, putting a screen over the surface. And yes, solarizing is used to kill SVB pupae. I'd use transparent plastic, though. Black plastic gets the plastic hot (of which some of the heat is conducted to the soil). Transparent plastic gets the soil underneath hot directly. Thick transparent plastic is best. Glass would be best of all.

< I'm not sure that treating soil with insecticide is a good idea. > +1

Since TX has 2 SVB cycles timing would be critical.

afaik - only the larvae cause damage.

< Larvae hatch from eggs and soon burrow into host plant stems. The caterpillars develop through several stages (instars). When full-grown the larvae climb from the stems and pupate a few inches deep in the soil. >

https://texasinsects.tamu.edu/southwestern-squash-vine-borer/

The adults just want to mate to start the cycle all over again.

< Larvae overwinter in the soil, pupate, then emerge as adults in the spring to mate and lay eggs. > Larvae overwinter in the soil, pupate, then emerge as adults in the spring to mate and lay eggs.

True that only the larvae cause damage. But once the larvae are in the plant, there isn't a lot you can do to prevent the damage, aside from surgery. Sorta like saying a bug doesn't damage veggies - only it's mouth does. The bug itself causes damage, because it makes the larvae.

SVB moth may travel far to get to your squash. So even if you were to completely kill all the SVB pupae in your soil, your neighbor maybe have some in his soil, and they will simply fly over and infest yours.

Containertime do you have a small garden space? Why not just find another spot to plant them and cover them?

" So even if you were to completely kill all the SVB pupae in your soil, your neighbor maybe have some in his soil, and they will simply fly over and infest yours."

I recall hearing that somewhere before.

"Containertime do you have a small garden space? Why not just find another spot to plant them and cover them?"

Judging by the user name,do you suppose moving containers to another spot would help?

Anyone see the movie Secondhand Lions? I'm almost to the point of going after SVBs like Hub (Robert Duvall) went after those catfish.

I know that the borers are in the soil because I have infected plants. If I don't grow any squash there next year, then no more SVBs can enter the soil. Then I can just grow a covered crop later on.

Scratch thru the top layer in the container looking for these.
What the SVB Pupae looks like
Don't be a bad neighbor.

More good pix

Thanks for that pic Gumby. Now that we know what to look for,we can smas_,ah hmm,pick them up and turn them over to animal rights folks to find them a new home. Serously,those with backyard chickens might till soil in fall and again before planting so the girls can hunt them.

I live in an apartment, so no one around me is growing vegetables. Just to be safe, I won't grow squash next year.

And to think that is what the gardeners 2 blocks over were saying.

Not sure exactly how far they travel but they did find you, right?

I remember the first year I grew squash and that (SVB thingy) happened to me. I, also wonder where they came from since No One had gardened in that spot before - where did they come from - since no one else gardened in my neighborhood.

The AG entomologist explained they can easily be carried in by the wind but they were out there for sure. Hurricanes are famous for bringing many unwanted gifts too.

It is very windy here, so I wouldn't be surprised if the SVB moths got blown in my direction. When I plant my winter crops in that container, I'll try my best to remove and destroy as many of the pupae I see.

So the point is if/when people let the cycle continue by allowing the pupae to hatch the SVB moth can then be blown to some unsuspecting new/old gardener.

The pupae (pictured above) can be found very close to the soil surface.

I'm not so sure that tilling the pupae in kills them esp. when they are known to survive even freezing during the winters in some areas like mine.

IMO fire is the only (organic) cure <grin>

It is of some interest that the host plants of SVBs are restricted to Cucurbita. So it's not as if these guys are busy reproducing in flower beds. But for containers, the way to avoid them coming out of your own is obvious. Take the top two inches of soil in a container, and throw it in the bottom of another container. Inversion is the solution.

I think you just got unlucky. Some lost and aged SVB managed to land on your plants. Several years of experience tells me that around here, for plantout in July, that's just not common. This year, my Tahitian Melon squash are 20 feet long, and blooming up the kazoo. No damage whatsoever.

Thank you for all this information! I really appreciate it.

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how putting SVB pupae deeper in the soil or at the bottom of a container will kill them? Is this an experiment? I think there are many in this world who wish life was that easy.

These things are just about indestructible.

It's understood that if you bury an SVB pupa deep, it dies. Can't get out. Like if you plant a seed a foot deep. Can't get out. This is a strategy used by commercial growers to minimize SVB damage - plow deep.

http://ag.umass.edu/vegetable/fact-sheets/squash-vine-borer

containertime it is your garden (container or whatever) and you can certainly do as you wish but this understood portion of a Texan searching the internet to find a comment that matches what they want to say is not what this Texas A&M site says. Which is ...

If you have had squash vine borers infest your squash, vines should be removed and destroyed (not composted unless you are sure your compost pile temperature reaches high enough to kill insects) soon after squash harvest. Soil can be tilled before planting to reduce the number of larvae that are in the soil.

IMHO - it makes more sense to remove the pupae rather than to bury them. In fact the concept of plowing in a container is not only not practical it is like comparing grapes to pumpkins.

The idea of tilling, plowing, or otherwise turning the the soil was to expose the pupae so they could be eaten by other prey or freeze.

Once the vines have been removed at the end of the season, till the soil to expose the cocoons on the surface. This exposes them to predators an d more severe winter temperatures.

In fact, IF it were me and I intended to use this soil again but in another container, I would simply fabricated a sifter from hardware cloth to screen the soil as I am transferring it. 1/4" hardware cloth should be adequate to find any SVB pupae. You may be surprised how many you find.

Sorry, I just don't think putting the pupae at the bottom of a container will keep them from emerging from the bottom of the container when they are ready.

Your container - do as you wish.

Edit:

--------------------------------------------

To be clear: What I meant was <1/4" hardware cloth should be adequate to find any SVB pupae.> The mesh comes in diff sizes and I see I wasn't clear. I corrected the 1st statement above.

Something similar to this 5-Foot 1/4-Inch Mesh Hardware Cloth 1/4 x 1/4 Hardware cloth.

Tho, I think I would sift the entire container.

Mea Culpa

Thank you for the idea of sifting. I will sift the top 1/4 of soil to try to remove as many pupae as I can. I will dispose of the vines to make sure no bugs remain, and keep my squash covered for future crops. I appreciate all of you guy's help!

To be clear: What I meant was using <1/4" hardware cloth should be adequate to find any SVB pupae.> Hardware cloth comes in different mesh sizes. What I meant is 1/4 x 1/4 inch mesh similar to this. 5-Foot 1/4-Inch Mesh Hardware Cloth

Tho I'm not suggesting anyone buy it there - tho it could be convenient if you already have an account.

I corrected it above. Was a poor choice of words on my part.

Mea Culpa

Edit Again: This posted more than once, sorry, I think the forum was stuck.

You till to "reduce" the number of SVBs, because when you till, a subset of the topsoil ends up back on top. That should be pretty self-evident. If you do as I say and place ALL of the top few inches of soil on the bottom of a substantial pot, no SVBs will emerge.

Sure, remove pupae if you find them. But if you don't, this will ensure that none will survive. Just a matter of holding a pot upside down, and dumping it into another pot.

Nope, I can't imagine a SVB burrowing out of a foot of soil when it hatches as a flying insect, wings and all. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry, I just don't think your skepticism makes a lot of sense. We can agree to disagree. Do as you wish.

Oh, and please don't hesitate to send me a picture of a foot long tunnel where an SVB moth has burrowed out of a foot-deep pot.

Ok,I'm going to remove the top 1/4tr"of soil from my garden,sift it and bury everything resembling grubs beneath 1' of soil. Any suggestions on what I should do with pebbles and earth worms found while sifting?

Maybe build a racetrack from the pebbles, race the earth worms, charge $20 for tickets and become and overnight millionare??

Hate to rain on all y’all’s parades but I have to mention that I rented a full-on rototiller this last January and I am experiencing SVB wrath as I type. Like some said, they can just fly over from a neighbor’s garden. Was so excited for Trombocino (“svb resistant”) this year, and haven’t gotten a single squash but many svb’s.

In my view, "SVB resistance" is pretty much nonsense. I grow Moschata, which is supposed to be that, and it is in no way shape or form. But maybe my Texas SVBs are especially vicious? The life cycle of SVBs is very well understood, and they disappear once a number of degree days have passed. My strategy here in Texas, which has been successful for many years, is to plant in March, and keep covered until June 15. (Um, that's actually a bit tricky, because after two months they are busting out all over.) Then throw the covers back and enjoy for the rest of the season. Never have seen a second wave later in the summer.

This doesn't work up north, because by the time the degree-days have elapsed, so has your growing season.

I used to painstakingly hand fertilize the flowers, since bees couldn't get in under the covers, but it seems that ants are doing a terrific job for me. I now have mature squash on the vine with NO manual fertilization.

Oh, I found my old post on SVB life cycle. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5324506/squash-vine-borer-emergence