Here’s blooms from my AD from last month. The scent is intoxicating and they lasted over a week for me.

Lilyfinch, I know it’s not “the same”, but would Jubilee Celebration or PCoM be potential replacements for you for Abe? I’ve been pondering him since I started, but I just don’t think I can deal with the BS, either, and decided to give William Morris a go. Maybe moving him will make a world of difference for you!

Agree that my Abe is doing great in a pot. Mine is new this year. It only has BS on the oldest leaves. It has been humid and raining a lot here.

My Evelyns have consistently done better than Abe in previous years. This isn't a good year to judge. Nothing looks good and not much is blooming. When Abraham Darby is good, he is very good, so I'm keeping him. Right now, he is almost totally defoliated from heat stress. Maybe some early fall blooms, I hope.

Lisa, your roses are incredible! Do you air condition your back yard?

Dames de Chenanceau? It's not bad for blackspotting here and opens fairly well.

How about Paul Barden's Oshun? It is AD x AD, looks very similar with maybe fewer petals, is scented, and my potted one has not had noticeable fungus problems.

Thank you everyone! Well Ben you made me laugh. Impressionist sure is pretty !

Rachel I have both of those roses. So I can keep an eye and see if they are suitable for this spot . My jubilee is a bit black spotty too ( ugh who isn’t now?!)

lisa , gorgeous!!!!! So beautiful! That’s the Abe I want !

ill look up oshun .. if rvr has it in stock I probably want it anyway ! :)

Kes , how big is your Dames ? I have one that could be moved .. I do love those blooms!! Mine is still only a couple ft tall so now may be a good time .

My wheels are turning, It’s cooler today and I feel like I could get stuff done outvthere !

Kes and Lilyfinch, how well does your DdC repeat?

Abe is a favorite of mine though he gets bs, defoliates sometimes. Will rebloom better than many, and mine's a tough plant that takes the heat and puts out new growth despite defoliating. Mine is pretty old and is not as good a plant as it used to be but is still good. Mine's also next to Felicia. Fragrance of Abe is outstanding but some people say Felicia is even better.

Wow Erasmus ... wow !! I definitely will not be pitching this rose because surely it must get better eventually! And I hate to gripe about another rose but my Felicia is pitiful after 3 years. I don’t know what it’s problem is. Is it better in a climate like yours and Sheila’s ?

Totoro my dames has been popping blooms all summer but hadn’t been particularly vigorous. Maybe next year ?

Good luck finding Oshun. I’ve wanted it for years, and it never seems to be in stock. Not even Paul Barden himself has a plant of Oshun.

I also have Felicia and I just love her. Maybe you just got a dud plant? Mine is in lots of shade, but that’s So Cal shade, and very bright. Lisa

Hey Lisa, Oshun is actually in stock right now! I also see Treasure Trail in stock - another one I want. I want to purchase it so badly but I have spent way more on the garden this year than planned.

I planted two AD last year and they were both rust buckets, the roses next to them didn't have issues, but those two were always loaded with it. I was kicking myself all summer for buying a rose rated poor in the disease category by DA. As beautiful as the blooms are, he's getting the shovel this spring.

Lily, Felicia is good out West. AD too, and I bet Oshun would be great.

Awesome!

For me Abe was a huge shrub. Loved the blooms but took up WAY to much space in my garden. I now grow 3 roses where Abe was.

Although I love Abe (I have 5), to be perfectly honest he is not without his faults. In my climate he does not want to be much more than 2-3 feet tall after having him for 4 years, although some people say that for them he grows into a huge bush or even a climber. But at this short height, it's hard to sniff the flowers, and the stems are too short to make good cut flowers. There is a great first flush, and then scattered flowers the rest of the summer. The flowers don't tolerate the dry heat we have here very well, although none of the roses do, so to be honest they aren't much different. When cut, the flowers last for 5-6 days. The flowers have a high variability in color. We don't get black spot or rust here, and Abe is no different. Abe is very vigorous, and is continuously growing and putting out new buds. I appreciate his enthusiasm. If the flowers lasted longer in the heat, there would be flowers on him all summer. The fragrance of the flowers is fruity and delicious. The flowers here retain a cupped form, which I appreciate. Here he is in his first flush this year.

My AD is still young, but I agree that she has clear pro and cons. The flowers have wonderful color, shape, and fragrance, and vase life is excellent for a Austin，but she catches BS easily. My area has a huge BS issue, and I don’t spray, so she lost every single leave below 1.5 ft height. Still, she is a keeper for me because I love the blooms so much!

claire

mlMine is only two years old but limping along. It's also in a prime spot. Has battled horrible black spot, which of course prevalent here but it gets hot harder than others. It has had barely any growth at all, this may be because it's young, I also suspect it got pretty badly fertilizer burned so I can't make a totally accurate decision.

I ended up ordering another one herrr in California! I feel like no David Austin rose garden is complete without abe and Evelyn , , they are just classics . I am interested to see how he does here . No black spot will be nice !! I think I disliked abe in Tennessee bc he was directly across from teasing Georgia and i expected him to behave the same . Abe will be in a pot though . Beautiful photos here !! I’m excited to see it bloom

He is a water hog!

Abe needs water to be healthy and bloom well. He's very nice on a trellis otherwise you need to give plenty of space because he's stretching out. I had 3, now I have 2 because I wanted a spot for Evelyn which is wonderful but not flowering as much as Abe.

Abe will rust even here in my dry climate. Fall leaves that are older are vulnerable. An experiment removing the oldest leaves at the lower areas proved useful. I also am careful to change mulch several times and clean up fallen debris, petals, leaves. Sounds like work but when he's on a trellis, it's really not. Take everything up and put it under the lemon tree, then put down food, some alfalfa and new mulch. No rust for 4 years now. He used to be a rust baby. I do not get BS here. He gets less thrills than my other DAs. I truly love Abe. You need to find the right location and then let him be. Spring and fall brings growth that I have to tie to the trellis.

The color and scent vary due to the seasons and temps. He loves temps in the 70 s but still will bloom in warmer temps. I love the fruity fragrance. Like fruit and citrus. Mmmmmmmmm. Would not want to be without my Abe.

To keep his roots cool I have a deep mulch layer and flagstone or bricks set on top to shield from the sun. This helps save water and keep the soil evenly moist so he will rebloom.

I think Abe is worth the extra effort. I do the same for Jude and get only a fraction of the flowers.

I meant to say less thrips

I'm on my 2nd Abe, this one on Fortuniana 2nd year and it's huge. I do spray so that helps. I also find it somewhat shade tolerant and still pumps out blooms.

Thanks for commenting, Buford. I have 2 own root in part shade.

Both had a handful of blooms this first year, and had "ok" growth. Looking forward to year 2!

Buford, exactly how big is your Abe on Fortuniana? I got 2 on fort earlier this year. They are still in pots. I'm wondering just how big they will get -so I know where to plant them?

The fort Abes sure are flowering more than my Doc Huey grafted ones.

Kittymoonbeam....... I haven't seen you post for a very long time..... I have trying to get a hold of you...... do you still have your pink sport of Medallion...... is it in commerce..... Medallion is my best rose, and I would love to get a pink sport if you could me about yours I would appreciate it..... Thanks......

Sorry Lillyfinch..... did NOT mean to hijack your thread..... just so glad to see kittymoonbeam posting.....

@kittymoonbeam Thanks for the tip. I'm really glad you mentioned Jude the Obscure as well, since it matches my experience exactly with that rose. Jude only does well when it has plenty (and I mean plenty!) of water. It kept its blooms for almost a week in mid 90 degree (F) heat with humidity after I watered it profusely. I'll try the same with AD this year. I have it and JtO on drip irrigation. I think I'll up their emitters to 2 gallons per hour instead of 1 gallon like the others.

Abe and Evelyn were both disappointments last year, but they were hungry and thirsty most of the season. I'm hoping for better performance due to better care this year. In a good year, I can hardly tell them apart in bloom color, size, fragrance and bush shape. Both got a good hard pruning this year, have been fed and getting lots of water. They look a lot happier. I've even decided to postpone Jude's departure because he looks better, too, and even has buds. We've had more rain than usual, and that's helped with the Austins.

Although lighter in color, Moonlight in Paris might be a good replacement where Abe doesn't work out. The blooms are a similar form, at least as large and it has some peachy pink mixed into the creamy buttery petals. I like it just as much. Fragrance isn't as strong.

flowers, my Abe Darby's are a little disappointing, too. Not growing very much but I'm guessing it's because they are own root and in part shade.

I have 2 Evelyn's I just planted on multiflora. They are in full sun and growing in a shape that is a lot better than the Abe's.

Actually, I think I have 11 DAs in the same bed- Abe, Boscobel, Heritage.

All of them have thin canes and are very floppy and have not bloomed much in the 14 months they've been in the ground.

Here, Abe own root is a lot stronger than Evelyn own root or grafted.

Evelyn looks similar but is weaker. It could be the siting.
.

Jc, I've helped floppy canes pretty successfully with banana peels. I'm sure there are more scientific ways to accomplish this, but I know I won't burn or over feed this way. I became aware of this when I laid a banana peel in the pot of an almost dead shasta daisy a few years ago, meaning to put the peel and the daisy in the trash on my way back in the house, but forgot about it. That shasta perked right up and grew a bunch of new stems and has been in my garden ever since. It grew new foliage so fast, I didn't see the old shriveled up banana peel until I was planting it.

There are a lot more fruits and veggies that have more potassium than bananas, so is it the potassium, or some other nutrient that does the trick? I wonder if placing a handful of beans or an avocado at the base of the rose would do as much good.

The biggest problem I have with Abraham Darby is the buds being damaged by thrips (I think) or dry heat. Sometimes the buds are entirely destroyed but usually the outer petals are damaged and the inner petals open okay. This seems to be inherited from his parent Aloha which has the same problem in my yard. Sonia Rykiel is even worse, and is a descendant of Aloha in both parents (Abe is probably one parent). Since I don’t want to use insecticides, I will probably remove Aloha and Sonia, but I don’t want to be without Abe’s fragrance! Sonia has a similar fragrance but only about 5% or less of her buds open enough to smell, and those are pretty damaged, even the inner petals.

my Abe Darby is about to hit year 2 or 3, I think 2, but it's puny. I accidentally have it BAD fertilizer burn the year I planted it. It seems to be slowly recovering and I am hoping one day it'll make a full recovery. I am babying it so I will live vicariously through everyone else til it does lol

I still have the same 2 in part shade.

Still puny and unable to support themselves at all.

Sprawled out strangely.

if I planted them in spring 2019, will 2021 be year 2 or 3?

I ought to mention, though, that the term "bull nose" doesn't really apply to this rose (or frankly, any Austins I can think of, or most OGRs). These roses weren't bred to have the high, pointed center of a Hybrid Tea Rose. They're more or less meant to be ruffled, or even quartered (which I guess could be confused with "bull nose" in an HT.

"The Portland From Glendora" is a good example of very deep quartering.

jc - I want to say 3? That’s my way of thinking. I hope you’ll have pics for us of yours . Mine is going well in a pot not blooming tho , at the moment.

Jeri , I may have a different idea of what bullnosed means , to me . And it has to do with terrible temps and buds staying squashed .. I need to find a pic . Because I had the problem in Tennessee and I have it in California too particular Yves piaget had been doing it , I’m not much of a hybrid tea grower to know if it means something else for them , i think I heard the term one

time and got it in my head that’s what it is .

Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca this is such a long thread, so please forgive me if you already answered this: does your last post mean that you did get Abraham Darby? What are your honest thoughts about him? Is there a good substitute for him, or is he just that good despite his flaws? Being new to roses, I feel like I see him discussed all the time. And everyone has an opinion!

Librarian , I did get him . I had him in Tennessee and I bought him here in California too . I truely enjoy the color and form of the rose . The fragrance is great too ! Yes it’s a finicky rose . Kinda a climber . Blooms nod and in tn had black spot , but some roses just are worth it . To me at least!

I need to look for pictures. 💗

"Bull Nose" when exhibitors use the term, is a Hybrid Tea that opens with two centers, rather like the nose of a bull

rather than one tight center in the middle.

It's sort of a reversion back to earlier swirled or quartered forms.

'Double Delight' in particular is prone to doing this. I found a photo at:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.330142

and another at:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.326120

Rose judges just HATE that!

Would this be a bull nose?

Sultry, if that was a HT -- supposed to be high-centered, I'd call it a "bull-nose." (You can see where the term came from.)

But if it's an OGR, or some sort of Shrub, I'd call it "almost-quartered."

If it was a HT -- that would be incorrect form for it. But if it's an Austin, or some other shrub, it's just fine.

=============

Y'know what Keith Zary told me?

He said that modern rose breeders have ALWAYS gotten seedlings that bloomed in the forms Austin "re-introduced."

But no one WANTED roses with that form, so they just discarded those seedlings.

Then, along came Austin, and he selected FOR that sort of look, and VOILA!!!

Oh gosh I have been using the term so completely wrong it’s hilarious!!! Yikes .

Let me revoke my own rose lover card and start over .

Thanks for sharing what it really means !

My 2 “twig Darby’s” in part shade are putting on a lot of growth this spring. They both have buds now too.

I think I’ve only gotten 4 or 5 blooms total between the two of them and now one of them has 7 buds right now.

The photo above is of First Crush, a Modern Bush Rose..I thought it was a Hybrid Tea? I just now googled it and it said Modern Bush..hmmm

These bull noses seem to also look heart shaped. I really kinda like them even though they aren't ideal.

This is an older pic but its my favorite Abe bloom.

I guess this is why people love it.

from 1 of my 2 twig darby’s.

only bloom between two 3rd year plants.

My first flower from Abe this year, which is own-root--I am surprised how rich the color is? It became more pinky-peach when I put in a vase. It was also a great cut flower and lasted for a few days. It has a lot of blooms, despite its small size. I planted it in maybe February/March, and it is only May.

Maybe it likes the Western European climate? The canes are definitely growing in every direction and flopping but I anticipated this and it will have a fence to lean on and climb on. It has sun from morning until about 2pm-3pm. Anyway, so far, it has been a pleasant surprise.