Can you buy a big bag of wood chip mulch? Not pine bark but wood chips.

Also, allowing the grass clippings to remain where they are cut is extremely beneficial to the soil in your yard. Just make sure that you are cutting often enough that it's not like mowing a hay field. I haven't seen anyone use a bag attachment on their mower in years.

We also toss weeds out into the yard and chop them up with the mower, too. Actually, we mow over fallen leaves, too, to the benefit of the soil and the turf.

Depending on quantities needed, sawdust or compressed wood pellets (for stoves or cat litter) pretty cheap and strong brown, become usable quickly. If you need to 'store', spread your greens out and run it over with mower, rake to move around if it gets too thick. The more thinly spread, the less bad effects on any lawn or plant underneath. If you have bare soil anywhere, just pile it up. Take back up when you need (or just leave it to degrade in place).

No, you can't store 'greens'. But you can find 'browns'---if nothing else, paper waste from your home.

The way I deal with a summer brown shortage is to go around the neighborhood every Thanksgiving to collect the bagged leaves left on the curbs. Presently I'm down to 3 bags out of the 35 that I collected last year ( I have an acre of grass to cut). One trick I use for too many greens is to spread out the grass clippings 2" deep and allow then to dry out and turn brown in the sun for a few days. Then rake them up to layer between fresh clippings. It seems to work ok, I mean if green leaves can turn into browns, why not grass?

vgkg, dried grass looks brown in colour but it isnt a 'brown' in the composting sense. it's still high in nitrogen. Perhaps the reduced water content makes it less slime inducing. The same would apply if you picked green leaves and dried them. They'd still count as 'greens.' They only become 'browns' if they've actually died on the tree.

Browns are pretty easy to find just about any time of year. Shredded newspapers, cardboard, sawdust or wood chips or wood stove pellets, woody tree and shrub trimmings, dried corn stalks, pine straw (needles) or hay or straw are often readily available even if dried fall leaves are not.

The first thing I would suggest is learn to think and speak in terms of carbon-nitrogen ratios. This green and brown silliness is distracting.

Edit to add; I'm sorry. This just a pet peeve of mine. Ask someone about the color coffee grounds and then ask about the ''green/brown'' ratio of coffee grounds.

✔ ✔

"Composting may cause people to become peevish Al. My peeve is people fretting over keeping an exact balance of N to C. I stopped doing that long ago. Pile it up,wet it when you think about it and turn it when and if you have time and need exercise."

LOL!! There is saying in the compost world - "compost happens" :-) Meaning that if you just assemble a bunch of degradable/decomposable stuff together and leave it, eventually it will become compost. It needs little to no human intervention to happen nor an assortment of "proper" ingredients in a prescribed ratio. It will break down and decompose all on its own.

The only reason to be particular about any of these things is to speed up and refine the process. But if you are not particular or simply can't be bothered, just wait it out and you will still get the same end result.

"...if you just assemble a bunch of degradable/decomposable stuff together and leave it, eventually it will become compost. It needs little to no human intervention to happen nor an assortment of "proper" ingredients in a prescribed ratio. It will break down and decompose all on its own. The only reason to be particular about any of these things is to speed up and refine the process."

Very true - as long as we are talking about aerobic bacteria and fungus. On the other hand, a big pile of "green" material will likely lose oxygen and become habitat for stinky anaerobic bacteria and collapse into sludge.

But for aerobic composting you don't need any "greens". A big pile of high carbon material like wood chippings or dead leaves will cold compost just fine on their own - given enough time (like 2 to 4 years). And it will be nutrient rich - you just don't get anything better than decomposed wood or leaf mold as a soil amendment. After all, that is pretty much what the forest floor consists of.

The only reason to add extra nitrogen material to the mix is to make it go faster. The trade-off is that you will lose some nutrients to the air in the hot composting process. But you will cut the composting time in half, at least. The ratios only really become important if you are trying to make the process go as fast as possible and you are trying to make the pile hot without tipping the balance over into anaerobic territory. So, yes, if your dream is to live on the composting edge, then study up on C-N ratios and compare notes with other composting geeks.

That is why I think of a compost pile as a bunch of carbon rich material with just enough nitrogen component to give it a kick in the butt and knock a year or two off the timeline. But I accept that I am sacrificing some quality for speed.

The forest floor also has a considerable amount of nitrogen contributions---in animal poop and corpses.

I usually encourage new composters to take a relaxed appoach using readily avaliable material,time,tools and resources. I believe people become discouraged and give up sooner when a lot of effort and expense result's in less than expected results. While experienced individuals and books are great guides,variables in location,weather patterns,compostables and the list go's on will effect their effort. In Bob's (op) case,no two yards yield the same grass clippings. Jim may fertilize and irrigate,resulting in clippings with more moisture and neutrants than Joe's who doesn't irrigate nor fertilize. Then different species of grass yield different clippings. Bob received multiple suggestions that will solve his situation, demanding various amounts of labor and expense. I can certainly understand one who live's in a town home buying material because they enjoy making compost rather than buying it. Bob evidently has a large yard so imo buying enough compostables isn't something I'd do. I didn't bring up buying material to talk about expense but more so to demonstrate how variables are always inserting themselves. If one buy's wood chips from a reputable nursery,chances are high the chips are cypress,White Oak or other slow to decay species because they are most desiriable for bed mulch. At any rate,I've picked up some good information from this site. To be accurate,I should say mostly from when it was GardenWeb because things have been in a downward death spiral since houzz took over.

I would go so far to say that purchasing wood chips is usually not necessary :-) They are the byproduct of any tree trimming or pruning operation and because they cost to dispose of, most of these sources will give them away for the asking. It saves them $$ and dramatically reduces their cost of doing business. As an example, Asplundh has a nationwide contract for pruning and vegetation management for utility companies and government agencies and they will gladly dump a load of wood chips if they are working in your area. You can also sign up with 'chipdrop' which will connect you to local arborists that will do the same.

I definitely have had the issue of excessively 'green' materials esp grass cuttings turning into the matted slimy mess. Less so with other greens like kitchen waste but can happen. I don't worry about the right mix, but find letting the greens dry out helps, or adding a lot of cardboard and/or woody wastes.

The fact that letting the greens/clippings dry out helps indicates to me it's likely an excess water issue more than 'greens' in the sense of nitrogen. Fresh plant clippings esp grass cuttings are mostly water - and noticeably more so early in season. A few days to a week depending on conditions usually makes a difference.

Mind, even better in my view is to just mulch the clippings into the lawn, but to each his own (and sometimes there are too many for this to work).

Of course, that's how hay is made and stored - cut in dry weather, let it dry some, then collect (bale or whatever). Probably a lesson in there somewhere.

"Probably a lesson in there somewhere."

Yes there is. If it rain's between cutting and baling,protein content and palatability both suffer to the extent hay loses half or more in value. If weather is overcast,cool and humid, hay doesn't cure as well as desired and doesn't store well. If hay is baled before it's cured,it can mold or has been known to catch fire after stored. All very expensive lessons. On the subject of odor,properly cured hay has a very pleasing odor.

I love the smell of good hay - it's a smell trigger for me. At any rate, the main lesson I meant was that fresh-cut plants and grasses especially lose a lot of water, which of course piled up (like in compost) can lead to matting and anaerobic conditions.

A term I didn't know until just now internet-noodling was that they'll 'sweat' (from respiration of the plant cells and microbes), with both heat and water as byproducts for some time after cutting. Also overlaps with compost pile experience.

I believe it's safe to say the majority mulch clippings back onto lawn. The exception might be when grass is heavly watered and ferterlized,occasionally catching clippings prevent thatch in some species. My exception is always catching clippings near ac. For those storing fall leaves for lack of green matter, overseeding lawn with annual cereal grain look's nice and supply's an abundance of clippings while permanent grass is dormant.

After pondering over some replies concerning my dried grass clippings as not being real "browns", it sounded reasonable. But then I wondered why does it appear to work for me when using them as browns for composting? It's true that the dried brown grass clippings still contains nitrogen but then I recalled as I stir them up in the drying process that a strong odor of ammonia is being expelled as they dry out in the sun. So some nitrogen is being lost as the clipping are being turned during the drying process, perhaps enough is lost in the process to make them act as browns when mixing with other sources of fresh greens?

Under the best of conditions they lose as much as 15% when drying (so 'they' say). That would be spread out in a very thin layer so they don't begin to cook and get wet and stick together. If they're that thick there will be composting going on faster than the drying occurs and you'll lose higher amounts of N.

That could be it, I spread them out on open ground about 5-6 inches thick at the start, by the next day the top inch is dried out but when stirred up the clippings below are still green and give off the ammonia gas odor. One stir per day for about a week and they're all dry, fluffy and the outgassing is over, ready to mix with the fresh greens.

Yes, it sounds like even your 5-6 inches thick means that there is composting/fermenting going on underneath, possibly some anaerobic. I know that may sound unlikely but it just shows how susceptible fresh cut grass/weeds are to matting and all that - my guess largely due just to how much water there is in them. I think drying doesn't turn them into 'browns' so much - although some nitrogen surely lost - as much as removing water (notice how most potent 'greens' tend to be so much wetter). Temperature differences in those six inch layers may be significant too.

That said, I'm partly guessing; there are surely other things going on in all piles. Another factor is that first stages of any kind of composting/decomposition will see the easiest-to-break down components (simple sugars, some proteins more than others, etc) and those physically accessible (eg mulched or ground) get consumed first, possibly quite quickly in bursts of biological activity (often with lots of extra heat generated).

The various descriptions of odor from 6" of decaying grass prompt's me to ask a question. The odor I notice most often is indiscernible from that of fresh cow manure. I'm curious how many are familiar with fresh cow manure odor and if that's what they smell from grass.

I think the smell is very much like cow manure, too, which to me makes sense. The main things one would smell in cow manure are ammonia (nitrogen) and hydrogen sulfide, aren't they? (which would also indicate some decomposition, likely anaerobic - properly cut and drying hay smells quite different)

Checking a bit, ammonia smell is almost always a lack of oxygen, which is why turning and raking helps. So I think it's just that the cuttings are too thick (if one wants to worry about it}

6" is way too thick for drying fresh grass clippings and this is exactly why. I'd go for more like 1". They'll dry out faster anyway so if it takes up more of your driveway/patio/yard it will be for a shorter time.

Like I said, 5-6" and stirred daily, it gets thinner with time and daily raking/turning. At that depth it will heat up a bit and release the N/Ammonia gas but I don't allow it to mat up or go slimy on me. Having a period of sunny and hot weather is a must for complete drying as it turns straw colored and fluffy. I don't do it that often, just on rare occasions when browns on hand are low.

As (almost) always with compost, whatever works for you...

"As (almost) always with compost, whatever works for you..."

That's why one get's such varied advice if they ask for advice.

Not only that, but the advice is liable to be quite variable.

Nice thing about varied advice that is quite variable is it give's one a variety from which to choose. (*_*)

Yep. And choose to do what they wanted to do in the first place anyway.

armoured,we weren't talking about our kids.

I was talking about myself )

　armoured "Yep. And choose to do what they wanted to do in the first place anyway."

In a management seminar long ago it was taught that most persons with questions were seeking approval for some answer they already had in their mind. I think I see that often on forums.

I'll buy that. However they sometimes do have their minds changed, and sometimes they didn't really have the answer already. What we don't see are the ones who never asked because they either REALLY knew the answer (in their own view anyway) and didn't even need to seek approval, or never thought there was a question in the first place. The latter, you often find on YouTube injuring property and self doing home renovation projects. :-D

One method of composting is to combine 'greens' and 'browns', but as the OP shows, frequently we don't have enough of one or the other to use this method.

My personal experience is that it's useful to go ahead and compost the greens by themselves, but I've learned to cover the material, whether a green or a brown, to trap the heat, moisture and ammonia in the compost pile. I've since learned that I was also trapping CO2 in the pile and creating the conditions to break down the cellulose in the compost.

So, I recommend just composting what you have, but keep it covered. Later, it can be mixed with browns, or just used as-is.

- Paul

I can't imagine a situation where paper,cardboard leaves or other dry material can't be found. Toss cereal,cracker and other small boxes in with fresh clippings so they hold air until they collapse. When a box cave's in the pile is stired slightly and by then grass will have dried and cooled somewhat.

There were some mentions of nitrogen /ammonia release into the air.

This week as I splintered limbs and branches, it occured to me that I was

accelerating, by years, the emission of the carbon

(compared to unassisted decomposition of big wood members).

An adjustment to the thought of composting as only positive,

Four - I am not following you. Yes, Nitrogen and ammonia are released into the air - but they are not greenhouse gasses. Over 75% of the air that makes up our atmosphere is Nitrogen.

The Carbon is not released into the air - it is left behind in the final product of decomposition: humus. That stays in the ground and conditions the soil and holds on to nutrients used to feed bacteria, fungus and plants.

Some nitrogen compounds including byproducts of decomposition are indeed greenhouse gases even if nitrogen itself isn't. Ammonia isn't itself (it breaks down too quickly I think), byproducts of its reactivity may be.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12868530

And while much carbon may be retained in soil, some of it will be released into the atmosphere as it is consumed and decomposed; that's how carbohydrates work.

So some products of compost are indeed greenhouse gases. I'm not saying one should worry about that (almost all of the alternatives to composting would be worse from a climate perspective), but it's a fact.

Carbohydrates ---> CO2 + H2O = Humus

With a little methane if the pile goes anaerobic. Methane is quite a bit more powerful than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Ammonia doesn't seem to be one, at least not that I found.

Yeah, there is some accelerated release of carbon when you chip up a tree, but keep in mind that this is not 'fossil' carbon. On a geological (or perhaps, climatological is more appropriate) time scale, the carbon in a tree branch just came out of the atmosphere a fraction of a second ago.

I burn wood, so I'm releasing a lot of CO2 to the atmosphere, but I'm avoiding turning a bunch of coal or natural gas into CO2 to get my heat. And I plant and cultivate trees, and compost instead of putting green waste in the ladnfill. If we try to minimize our footprint as much as possible, that's the best we can do. I still don't leave the door open just because I have a woodstove. :-)

I'm less and less okay with woodburning lately but because of the air pollution, not climate change. Not trying to lecture or shame anyone, I just think that if there is a valid or pressing concern about burning wood, it's that.

Agreed. Certainly in the urban areas or places with air pollution issues. I happen to live in a small city in center of a huge rural area (central MO) so it's not a problem here. My stoves are both catalytic and burn pretty clean. I don't even have to clean out the chimneys but every 3 years or so, and I get a little ash and hardly any creosote out of them.