I don't think you're crazy. I like your DIY enthusiasm! I also like your idea to recess the fridge in the pantry space. I'd put roll-out tray shelves in pantry space next to it, then have shallow base cabinets against the stair wall, which will alleviate the pinch points a bit at both entries. The end of the island will be your landing space, so once you unload items from the fridge, the triangle won't be as long as it appears. I put a MW drawer in the island, and made it a bit shorter, to provide a wider walkway.

On the DR side (overhang, but no seating?) I made the island shallower, since standard bases are 24" deep (unless yours will be 30" deep?), to give you a bit more space for the table.

I'd make the primary prep space between the sink and range--which is not to say that you can't switch to the secondary prep space when you have guests at the table. Use narrow cabinets beside the range hood, move the DW and sink down to provide a wider primary prep space, and center the faucet on the window, to disguise that the sink is off-center. And get a deep sink to hide the evidence. ;)

Clean dishes can be kept in the uppers above the shallow bases, easily accessed by a helper when setting the table (green line). Instead of the shallow bases, you could use the mobile drop leaf cart, but can't the desk also be used in that capacity?

Cool idea for the desk, BTW.

The peninsula was going to be back to back 30"- and 12"-deep cabinets (the 12" on the DR side) with a 6"x12" box on top for a wiring chase. So a raised countertop to block sight lines to prep mess, and no overhang at all (other than the usual 1").

My conception was to make the desk only have two legs and be supported by a slot on the counter side, but making it fully removable actually makes more sense. :-)

I made the peninsula the length it was because I have an easy primary reach of about 50" side to side on a 37" countertop, and I would happily use every inch of that when prepping, in-box/cutting board/out-box style. I could probably stand closer to the corner and have my left-hand reach space slop over into the corner countertop area, though.

I'm not too worried about space for the table -- usually it's only one or two of us, and if it's a dinner party I'll shuffle the table around toward the living room so there's more room anyway.

This sounds like an awesome project! What's the purpose for the outside stairs? Could you use those for the basement stairs? Because I see an opportunity to create a traffic path that doesn't cut through the kitchen and dining room to get to the bedrooms and it's exactly where you've begun constructing the inside stairs. Also, where is your laundry?

zmith The outside concrete basement access stairs date from the 1944 addition of a basement to the existing 1930 house (up on piles until then, I suppose).

I had originally considered just extending the gable roof on the north side to just cover the stairs, but then the run down from the ground floor (really about 30" above grade) would have been difficult, and besides it would mean that I'd have to move one of the windows in my daughter's room.

And the only way to get from the new back door to the bedrooms without going through the kitchen would mean eliminating her closet and then a narrow passage past the central load bearing wall. Ick. I'm fine with going through the dining room and kitchen and the bedrooms being in a separate path. Not like it's a huge house.

My basement:

I have a whole set of cunning plans for the basement, too. :-)

That's a good reason. Would be easier to move the back entry.

ETA I see that you've got a slider in the dining so, never mind! :)

I'm actually thinking an out-swinging single french door with a sidelight to get from the dining room to the future deck. I grew up with sliding doors in the '70s, and I am not fond aesthetically. But I need a screen door to keep my cats inside, so double doors are out.

But that project is probably a year away at the earliest.

Great journey you’ve begun, hope you journal it here as DIY projects are fun to follow. I’ve got a question about your budget. What’s included in it besides appliances? Are building materials, siding, roofing, doors, windows, electrical, etc included in a separate budget?

bbtrix $25,000 max $30,000 is the whole budget for everything. If the foundation and plumbing work goes over my ballpark estimates I may need to stretch out the project and possibly phase it -- build the space now, make it a kitchen later. I know I'm getting a ~$15K "golden handcuffs" yearly incentive bonus around Christmas, so if necessary I'll throw that in instead of going on vacation or whatever.

And maybe I limp by with my crappy but functional fridge and terrible dishwasher for a year or two.

I have a semi-moribund blog that my now-ex-wife and I started when we bought the place — I'm definitely going to keep it updated for this project. I imagine I'll be adding to the "wtf" and "why we hate the previous owners" categories. A lot.

For comparison, this is my current kitchen island, where I do all my prep and cooking. You can see why I might want something more functional. :-D

Yikes, since materials add up, and especially since you want inset cabs and quartz, you need to start a spreadsheet and get your material quotes now. You don’t want to start demo and have money issues later. If you need to phase things you can plan ahead for it. Do it just like a contractor would before putting bids in, find out your material costs and create a real budget.

Yeah, I have a spreadsheet in Google Docs, which includes all the things. I'm going to be doing all the framing, and I'm going to build my own cabinets. It might take me several practice tries with junk plywood and cheap pine 1x2s to get the technique down, but it's something I really want to do. (And I have several cabinets I'd like to build for my workshop anyway, so practices won't go to waste.)

And there's no way I'm going to spend $600+++ for a cabinet that contains at most $100 of materials. (See, e.g., Depression, Great, parents who grew up in, passim.)

Also, I refinanced the house a few months ago to get rid of PMI, so I took $25K out in cash which is sitting in a separate checking account that I don't use for anything but paying the mortgage.

I understand. I’m a DIYer too. Costs do add up when doing an addition. Look forward to watching your project.

Urk. Forgot to put the appliances in the spreadsheet.

Guess my ultimate budget is $35K. Oops.

Speaking of the future doors in the dining room - a recent, related post that includes some nice options, including sliding doors that are functional and look French-ish (read the comments)

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5444199/sliding-or-hinged-door-for-patio-door#n=25

Following.. good luck!

I may have missed a detail as I started skimming lol. I have a very similar kitchen layout, a wide galley. My thoughts were wanting to swap your dw and sink placement to get it centered on the 3 windows and get more space from the stove, or even put stove where desk is (though it interferes with your light perhaps,). You just have plenty of length to have those so close.

We just renovated ours at that budget and bought refurbished high end appliances. I spent a year paying one at a time, my faucets too, everything stacked up until we could do it. We painted existing cabinets and I splurged on my huge window.

Good luck!

(Cooking partner will want to know when’s your master bath planned? ;)

Good luck! (And finding your cooking helper lol)

We haven’t put up hardware yet but you can see the layout in action in case it’s helpful

We pulled our refrigerator into the breakfast area (near our den).

Okay, here's Option 2. I think I like this one a little better, and I'm not totally giving up all that volume over the stairs. Thanks to mama goose_gw zn6OH for suggestions.

In this version:

• The fridge is buried in the over-stair space, set flush with the wall (and I'll pare down the stub wall between kitchen and dining, or bulk up the stair wall to make it all on the same plane.

• A snacks cabinet next to the fridge, so my daughter and I can grab crackers or chips without having to go all the way into the kitchen and get in the cook's way. This will have ROTS with shelves attached to the front, so I can pull them out to get at hidden storage behind the "back" of the cabinet. Also, that way I only need 24" drawer slides, which are far cheaper than any 36" slides.

• Next to that, double 36" batwing pantry cabinets at counter height and deep drawers below for small appliances, bulk paper towels, dry cat food, etc. A countertop microwave will either go in the left-hand pantry, or in a compartment below. I don't really like microwave drawers because they're insanely expensive, and I really only use the microwave for defrosting meat, half-cooking a baked potato, etc. So a $150 model is a splurge on this item for me.

• 37" prep zone between the sink and the stove. I still like the idea of prepping at the peninsula, but y'all seem to think that's heresy, so... (sigh). Drawers for [cookware[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/2littlefishies-yellow-kitchen-reveal-long-kitchens-forum-gardenweb-phvw-vp~2766246), [plates & dishes[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/southeast-portland-kitchen-remodel-roll-out-dining-table-contemporary-kitchen-portland-phvw-vp~46807752), and silverware will go beneath. I might put a [paper towel dispenser[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/clippings-by-chuckles32-my-clippings-gardenweb-phvw-vp~11603727) here too. The peninsula is now 45" long, which is well within my maximum side-to-side reach at counter height.

• Trash/recycling bin pullout in the peninsula, again so trash is available to both the cook and the non-cook without having to cross each other's paths. I figure I'll probably do things like break down bulk meat packages here, so there will be a drawer for foil/wrap dispensers and plastic bags.

• In the dining room, I put a layer of 12" deep base cabinets between the two stacks on either end. That would otherwise be dead space, because I realized that pushing the dining table into that area to get it out of the way would just mean a serpentine path from the living room to the kitchen and beyond, which means lots of bonked hips along the way.

• The super deep blind corner cabinet accessed from the DR side will be where I can put the transformer for all the low-voltage task lights, maybe a in-counter compost bin, and storage for extra folding chairs and/or (future) deck accessories. When I build the deck, I might sneak a frost-free hose bib into this space as well, so I won't have to traipse all the way into the kitchen to fill up a watering can.

• Walkway widths are 42" from fridge to peninsula, 48" from peninsula to pantry cabinets, and 43" from pantry cabinets to fully-extended sliding desk.

• The desk is not fixed to the cabinets and can move around for baking, sideboard, etc. There will be a [custom short/narrow unit[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/west-coast-hamptons-traditional-kitchen-san-diego-phvw-vp~36017939) underneath for printer, files, etc.

Also, the table in the plans is my current dining table, which can't be extended any further and is wider than necessary given all the sideboard space I've added. It also needs refinishing and the chairs are all getting a bit rickety, so it may be appearing in a Goodwill near you in a year or two.

Actually, the paper towel dispenser should go above the trash pullouts. Duh.

I think that's an improvement, and you've adapted it to the way you will use the kitchen. It's not that prepping on the peninsula would be heretical, but humans almost always adapt to the path of least resistance, and since most prep starts with rinsing an item, you'll already be at the sink. And you might find yourself thinking, "It's just an onion, a few tomatoes, or a pound of ground beef--I'll just chop/slice/season it here, so I don't have to take two steps to the peninsula."

But when you are prepping a more elaborate meal, or entertaining, you still have the option to prep on the peninsula.

Bryan, while I was working on another layout, I thought of something you might consider. You could pull your base cabinets out on the long wall, which would give you up to 6" more head space in front of the upper cabinets, and more counter space for prep.

You'd lose up to 6" in the width of the base cabinet under the peninsula, but you could use a super susan in the corner, which could hold your pots and pans, mixing bowls, and stacked plates.

The 12" deep cabinet on the back of the peninsula could hold the transformer, and the folding chairs could be stored in the broom cabinet. You could put a covered compost container under the sink.

The void behind the base cabinets would be perfect for housing the pipe for your outside spigot (red line), so while you're working on the kitchen, you might as well spend the $45 dollars for the PVC and hose bibb (Lowe's prices--ymmv).

GardenWeb discussions--deep counters

GardenWeb discussions--super susan

I'm not certain that I'm fond of super susans*, but bumping out the counters is an awesome suggestion. Thank you, and I'll take it under consideration. :-)

* (In the house I lived in for the second half of my childhood, we had a super susan, and it was the darkest grottiest least-accessed cabinet ever. My mother kept the sauces and pancake syrup there, and it was somehow always sticky and gross.)

If you use the plan with the shallow bases, be sure to check if there are shelves in them. We used shallow cabinets in a breakfast room and they did not come with shelves because they were meant to be for a bathroom vanity. It was made good but meant there had to be holes drilled for the shelf supports.

D M I'm building the cabinets myself; they'll be as customized as I need them to be. :-)

And yes, there will definitely be adjustable shelves in the big upper pantry cabinets.

One thing I will mention is that I don’t really get the snack cupboard. What is that, and what function does it serve that the pantry, just inches away, wouldn’t serve? At the same time, I see the kitchen desk which, in my experience, is never a desk but is just a clutter-drop zone. Yours runs the risk of being an eyesore should it meet that fate, given its placement. I’d put the desk where the snack cupboard is (keeping it behind closed doors would be great—pop it open and slide out a stool once a week which is about how often you’ll use it). Then, the present desk can become more counter space, which I suspect will be welcome.

Due to the headroom requirements for the stairs below, I can only use the volume starting at 30" or so off the finish floor, so I can't garage a mobile station there. But I hate wasting all that volume, so something needs to go there.

Also, any flat surface in my house is likely to become a junk collector. :-) Including more counter space in place of the desk -- which would be out of the main flow and thus more likely to get stuff dropped on it anyway. And then I wouldn't be able to sit at it and look out at my back yard. (I wanted to put in a booth or banquette but just couldn't get one to fit.) I'm not planning to do my bills there, or organize my mail, or whatever the old expected "desk in the kitchen" activities were; it's pretty much intended as a place to sit and eat, slid back about a quarter into its cubby, and as a mobile station on rare occasion when needed. (And I tolerate a pretty high level of mess when it's just me; I can tidy it up when company comes over.)

The snack cupboard is, yeah, probably duplicated by the pantry cabinets next door. I could just do pantry pullouts that go 36" or 48" deep there, but my thought was that with inset doors they would be very liable to misaligning due to sagging under load, and a cupboard with ROTS-with-shelves-on-the-front would (a) make them shorter pullouts and (b) hide any sagging. I suppose I could stack up all the stuff I currently have in my pantry cabinets and see if I get close to the heavy-duty drawer slide weight limit and judge how much sag I would get from that.

Nevertheless, this is just to explain my thinking, not defend or argue. I need to ruminate about this for a bit. Suggestions still appreciated -- I'm not married to any particular configuration yet. And again, I'll be getting a KD's second opinion before I start building any cabinets.

Have a wall dividing the living room and entryway

Claire Larece That section of the house is a project for another time. The wall between the original cottage and the 20'x20' addition was knocked out in the name of "open concept" somewhere 20-25 years ago, because the previous owners (not the previous-previous owners who built the addition) were deeply stupid. The previous-previous owners, on the other hand, didn't bother doing anything with the lumpy natural-stone chimney and just built around it, leading to perpetual roof leaks. o_O

Eventual floorplan will look something like this, with the chimney demolished and replaced with a pipe flue and the original entry repurposed back to a foyer again.

following

I am not convinced you need an egress from the dining room. It divides the space and makes the table "in the way" of walking.

Kathi Steele You mean out to the future deck? It would pretty much have to go there, or else -- like my current patio in the inside corner of the house -- you would have to go out the back door and around, which with an extension would be even further than it is now, and I don't even like it as it is now.

The deck isn't on the agenda for at least a year after finishing the kitchen, so I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

Edited to add: And if I get a skinnier dining table, then I can center it on the room and have enough walkway around it on both sides.

Well, what I mean is, if you are cooking out, how will you get to the grill? If you decide to eat outside, how will you get to the table? Walk out the back door or walk thru the dining room?

Ok so you’re keeping the existing entryway as it makes sense, I saw two entries

Walk through the dining room. It's around the peninsula from the kitchen, but not really all that far.

The guidelines say to put a door to the deck from the kitchen, but given the projected size of the deck it would have to go where the stove is, and I think that would cut too much into the counter space and flow, and also I would rather provide natural light to the dining room with more than the one small "over sink" window that exists now.

I imagine it would work like this:

1. <sits down at table with daughter>
2. "Hey, it's nice out -- let's sit outside!"
3. <pick up plates, open door, walk three steps, sit down again>

Claire Larece There are two entries, but the straight path from the gate leads to the new (1960s) one, which I want to get rid of because I don't want a door to the MBR right off the front door. I'm going to have to do some landscaping to redirect the path back to the old entry, which was originally just a wooden porch and then enclosed back in the '40s. Right now it's a coat closet and junk room.

Why can’t you run the extra cabinets you have in the dining room to the other side and create the banquet there? You may close off the window

Get rid of the peninsula add the fridge there with and the desk next to it