The new U-Pvc windows will not off gas, if you want off gassing, set fire to a wood window or even fiberglass. you can also purchase new shower curtains or seat covers which both contain plasticizers and cause off gassing; new U-Pvc windows will not do that.

The only things in my house that will off-gas are the new appliances and those usually clear up in a week or so from my past experiences. All materials fixtures, furniture and finishes are NO VOC including cabinets, paint, finishes, flooring, insulation and shower curtains! When you are chemically sensitive and get splitting headaches and can't breathe around chemicals, you find all the non-toxic, NO VOC materials and there are many available now. Apparently windows have not caught up with the demand for non-toxic building materials. My fear of the Ultrex is that when it is 114 degrees the windows will off-gas and I won't be able to be in my house without passing out!

I would contact the manufacturer's with regards to their paint finishing process and chemicals. Thermally broken aluminum is probably your safest bet and you can go with unfinished on the interior vs. painted exterior.

+1 to the other comments. There is no toxicity concern with any of these materials. It sounds like you may have some sensitivity over and above what would be harmful, but you are probably looking at a pretty consistent situation across materials here, either from the material itself, or from the paint/finish/caulking/etc on the material and installation. None of these are perceptible by the vast majority of folks, with the exception of perhaps paint/stain on wood windows and caulking after the initial installation... Is it safe to assume given your situation that you taken some measure to improve the ventilation in your home beyond what is standard? If not, that may be advisable as well.

RL, I'm choosing windows now and wondering what you decided and how it worked out. I'm leaning towards Marvin Ultimate. FWIW, I've heard that some no-VOC finishes (paints/stains) don't hold up well. (my contractor had a client who wanted stained cabs with no-VOC finish and later wasn't happy because they didn't hold up). Do HEPA air filters help? i.e. on the furnace and a portable one?

Believe it or not, I haven't got anything yet. Quotes and samples have taken months and months if I get them at all. Window dealers have more excuses than I've ever heard in my life.

I still can't find non vinyl windows to fit the framed openings in my tiny house. I need short sliders in the loft but the tracks are all vinyl. Even the fiberglass windows have vinyl tracks, stops, jambs, and sills. Other chemically sensitive people have told me they fume and irritate to where they can't be in the room with them. No one makes an all aluminum slider to fit or a casement the size needed. Had I known this would be the case I'd have had the house designed differently but I can't reframe it now. It looks like I am down to wood casements with aluminum exterior cladding.

All wood windows have chemical pesticide and fungicide treatments, no window manufacturer will make them without it and custom, bespoke is too pricey and takes too long. Some of the wood treatments are water-based, some are solvent based but all contain pesticides and fungicides. Each company has it's own custom blend of poison. I'm told water based is better. Sierra Pacific uses water based wood treatment (their sample doesn't reek to high heaven like Kolbe's does) but they won't make the correct size casement window. I am also told that the wood treatments soak into the wood and do not volatilize, evaporate into the air. Do we believe this, am I going to be breathing cides in my house? I don't necessarily believe that any sealer can block this if they do out-gas.

The few wood samples I have vary in stink and the MSDS sheets, while they do disclose some ingredients show some proprietary, secret chemicals. When you are chemically sensitive even a small amount can send you into perpetual headache and render you dysfunctional.

As to no VOC cabinets, I have had no issues with cabinets constructed out of Purebond plywood or solid wood. The absolute best NO VOC finish for wood is Rubio Monocoat. Unlike regular stain it does not penetrate or lap, it bonds to the wood fibers. It is very durable in that it is not a layer but it becomes part of the wood and does not peel off. It is water and stain resistant. The hardness of the wood you have will determine how easily it scratches. The best thing in addition to NO VOC, one coat application, non slippery, great look, 50+ colors, is that if you do get a scratch or stain it can be retouched easily and invisibly by sanding and feathering the spot with the same grit used to sand the piece or floor and applying a bit of the same color oil. It does not lap and the color, when cured in a week or two blends in. You'll never know you had a stain. You never need to strip and refinish ever unless you want to. I have seen threads on here that have had problems with it because they did not sand well or apply it properly. I have used it for 7 years and know how to correct issues and apply and repair it correctly. All my floors and furniture look fantastic.

I have had no problem with Ben Moore Natura NO VOC paint, while not completely non toxic, it is decent paint that is holding up. I have samples of Romabio mineral paint, it's non toxic and NO VOC, all samples are fine even the one that has been outside in weather for months is fine. Everyone with sensitivities will vary in what they can handle, sensitivity is not one size fits all so testing materials and finishes is the way to go.

I am coming down to the wire on the windows. I'm guessing I will choose the least nasty wood treatment out of the companies that will make the actual sizes and operating styles needed. Waiting on Marvin and Jeldwen quotes, samples and a wood sample from Loewen.

Don’t take it the wrong way RL, it may not be true, but you sound like you would be a very difficult customer and that’s probably why you aren’t getting anywhere. Again, not saying it’s true, but I’m guessing that is the perception of the dealers that you have spoke to roght or wrong

Actually most of them get it! A few window companies just say "proprietary" and won't disclose any materials so I go elsewhere. You might think it's me but my builder has to wait weeks for quotes too, not only on my job. Some of them say they will send samples and they don't do it. Some of the samples I get smell bad, so I have to keep looking.

The thing is that everything in this house is NO VOC and I've approved it. I'm not rendering the place uninhabitable with one thing or living in a tent for a year while the windows out-gas. Whichever brand that will make the sizes and doesn't stink wins. It is just hard to determine unless I have samples. I'm not in a city with showrooms so there is not a selection of samples here.

34.7% of the population has now reported negative health effects from petrochemical products like pesticides and synthetic fragranced products. 50% of the population has genetic mutations that prevent them from detoxing chemicals quickly or effectively to some degree. With the ever increasing amount of toxic chemicals being foisted upon us (and polluting the environment), the problem of chemical sensitivity is becoming common. I didn't have this my whole life, I'd never heard of it when it happened to me and more people are turning up with it everyday so I'm not alone and many vendors have noticed fuming products and or know someone who is chemically sensitive and have heard this before. The window industry has not quite caught up on the need for safe materials.

I’m sorry RL but I have to take issue with that last statement. These mayerials are safe. Not doubting that you and others may have sensitivities, but to categoric state that the window industry needs to catch up and use safe materials is wrong. How do you drive a car with all of that plastic and carpet in there?

I tried to read RL’s replies and I just couldn’t make it through them. I think an aluminum product that is anodized is the way to go, but I’m sure one could find fault with that as well.

toddinmn, The only fault I am finding with the aluminum is that they don't make some of the smaller sizes needed for this house. I was originally advised to get a Fibrex window that came in the sizes that the stock house plan for this model design called for. These Fibrex windows have 50% vinyl content and reek. They are not even nice windows. The plasticky finish is pitted and marred straight from the factory, the miters are rough and uneven. Had I known that this would be the case and that aluminum windows have minimum sizes for various operating styles, I would have had the house designed differently. Even if I could reframe, I have no room for a 30" tall slider in a loft.

fridge 2020, pesticides and fungicides are not safe. If they stay embedded in the wood they it may not be an issue. Petroleum solvents are not safe, if they off-gas quickly they may not be a problem. So far I've had no guarantee that this is the case. Just because everyone is not having immediately noticeable neurotoxic effects from these chemicals, it does not mean they are safe. Some of the MSDS sheets have danger warnings and list ingredients as carcinogens and toxins.

I had an older car that had off-gassed. I now have a two year old car that is not entirely off-gassed. Driving it with the windows closed is still a problem. Regardless, I don't spend 8 to 12 or more hours in the car as I would in the house and I work at home.

Can't fault you for your assessment of the Fibrex stuff.

Have you considered contacting a curtain wall glazier where they make their own windows out of the anodized lineals?

What sizes are we these windows?

Windows on Washington Ltd, who might that be? I wonder about the price.

toddimn, I need a couple of operable awnings to fit 20"x20" ROs and a couple of sliders for 20"x52" ROs. I will put an operable casement/fixed in place of the sliders even though they will be a few inches shy of the RV egress requirement of 17 x 24 inches even with a larger casement than fixed side. I can fit through a dog door.The rest of the windows are within doable sizes for most companies.

The slider is 52 wide and 20 high, right?

These sizes don’t seem to be to small.

Which brands have you looked at?Have you looked at Millard?

Millard or Milgard?

Milgard

Nothing about 20" is too small on the height. Most times, slider minimums will be like 14-18"

Of the brands that make aluminum sliders Western won't make it less than 30" high. The brands that don't make aluminum sliders won't make casements that small and or they won't make operable awnings that small. So far no one makes all the windows I need without pesticides or if they are aluminum some of them are pushouts with inswing screens that I have no room for in a tiny house.

Unless I read this wrong, it looks like they make casements at 18" and sliders as short as 12".

https://www.milgard.com/sites/default/files/series-detail/architect-tr/standard_aluminum_preformance_ratings_and_min.max_.pdf

They make the short wide slider but the casements and awnings only come with hinged inswing screens. I don't have room for those, even if I wanted to open a screen every time I wanted to open or close a window.

Is that the screen that you are referring to? Is there no access to the hardware without removing of the screen? That isn't a hinged screen to my eye as much is a screen that is retained by simple thumb turns.

Why not just leave the screens out of the smaller ones? Do they represent all of the window that you would need to vent through?

There are sliding windows that are indicated on that list of less than 20" so that will work as well and you won't have to fuddle with the screen.

I'm not sure there is any magic bullet out there that hits all points. Most of life is about compromise and I suspect that perfect windows are no different.

Milgard sent this pic. It is hinged on the top, it goes on a push out window and you have to swing it in to get to the latch and push the window open. Some companies won't make roto operators in small sizes. If I use push outs, the screens will hit things like the mattress and the kitchen faucet. In a little sleeping loft like this you'd have to push the mattress over, lie on the floor, open the screen toward your face or over your head and stick your arm out the window to operate the window! I can't reach to do that above the kitchen sink unless I jump on the counter, which I can do but.... In a regular or large house there would be room but it wouldn't matter as all the windows could be larger anyway. I can't have sliders in the awning locations as there needs to be some awnings so they can be opened in rain and wind as the house has no eves as the width required for eves won't be allowed on the road. Tiny houses have much tighter parameters. This is basically a stick built recreational vehicle and it needs to conform to RV codes.

My compromise to avoid vinyl and push outs/hinged screens, appears to be getting the clad wood as those appear to be the only ones that anyone will make in all the sizes and styles called for if I put a casement in the slider location. Sierra Pacific uses a less fuming water based wood treatment but they don't want to make the casement in the size I need because it is a few inches short of egress code, even though I can fit through it easily. Loewen and possibly Marvin will make them but their wood treatment is solvent based. I didn't design this house but it is well designed and the operating types and sizes are proper for each location. Being a tiny house and already framed there is really not much room to change anything even if I could reframe it. All I can do is put a casement in the slider location, awning won't work because it has to be egress upstairs.

If I was starting over I would design according to the sizes/types available in the least toxic window. I was lucky enough to find this custom tiny house builder who agreed to sub non toxic insulation, cabinets, paint, flooring, MC instead of Romex, etc., others weren't willing to customize anything. If I hadn't been made environmentally ill and chemically sensitive from a house with toxic mold, I wouldn't have to be so careful as to toxic materials but I was and the only way to detox from this is to avoid exposure to more chemicals and toxin exposure so as to allow my detox system to catch up and clear out accumulated toxins and that won't happen if one is accumulating more as would happen if living in an off-gassing house with a toxic encephalopathy headache daily. I am by far not alone with this issue as it is becoming more common everyday as buildings become older and moldy and materials and products become more toxic. I know of many, thousands, who are now having to build non toxic.

As stated above, anodized aluminum is going to be the least "toxic" variant out there and can be made in all of the sizes that you indicated. Screens being on the inside are sometimes a PITB, but such are the issues with operational units that open out. Like I said...no magic bullet.

Add a wicket to the screen................................

Actually they can not be made in all the sizes by one company in all the styles and sizes I need except for one company and they want 17,000 and still with the ugly screens and another doesn't make the sizes in roto operated. The ones they will make small can have a wicket screen but I still have to reach to operate that push out latch and they look really bad too. I would go for the all aluminum for my shop in large sizes but not in the house, it is to nice looking to lower the aesthetic with such industrial windows and the price is too much for the the look.

I am about out of thoughts. The gamut has pretty much been run here and unfortunately the unicorn does not appear to exist and only you can decide where and how to compromise.

I am about out of thoughts too! A few more quotes and samples and hope!

RL thanks for posting here, and thanks to everyone who contributed comments as well. I’m looking for nontoxic windows and the information in this conversation was very helpful. Which windows did you up going with?

I went with Marvin Modern. They are either powder-coated or anodized aluminum inside and fiberglass outside. No off-gassing in the house! Nice windows! https://www.marvin.com/products/collections/signature/modern?msclkid=aa4c11994c051ca10378725fa9d9b6be&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brand%20-%20Windows%20-%20Exact&utm_term=marvin%20modern%20windows&utm_content=Modern

Thanks for the reply nowdays! Are you the RL who wrote the origional post? Either way thanks for the recommendation I’m going to look into those!

For those of us with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), a genetic inability to detox chemicals quickly or effectively, it is not the smell but the actual toxic chemical of-gassing that is the problem. We get sick if we breathe chemical fumes/off-gassing.

Fibrex does not off- gas. As a matter of fact, it is the only window that meets California’s imdoor air quality code.

Interesting first comment.

Besides being factually incorrect...tell us how Aluminum offgasses.

Marta Elliot, Fibrex does off-gas as it 50% vinyl , and the rest is basically sawdust and glue... The look and quality of Fibrex is not good either, unless they have improved them by now.

Windows on Washington Ltd, What is factually incorrect? No one said aluminum off-gasses!

I'm surprised anyone is still commenting on this old thread! I went with Marvin Modern as they finally started making the casements and awnings. Originally, they only made the patio doors in the Modern line. Even after they introduced the windows, they would not make the small casements and awnings the required sizes, so we did have to reframe all of the smaller windows by a few inches. Luckily, there was just enough room under the ceiling and between the floor and ceiling in the sleeping loft to do that. They are beautiful windows, all hand-cranked, with no ugly wickets, no exposed screw screens, or push-out screens, and they have never smelled as powder coating is baked, so it's already off-gassed when you get it. The fiberglass exterior, being outside, any initial off-gassing from that is going outside, not in your face in a little tiny house!

@StudioXY

I was replying the poster above me that was posting about a an air quality story. Mind you, if you research that assertion, it is not CA that certifies the product in question, but some 3rd party (i.e. advertising body) that collected that check to offer that "certification".

My post about aluminum was referencing an earlier comment that I made where thermally broken aluminum (annodized finish) would be the "cleanest" window that you could install from an air quality potential standpoint. This assumes that that TBA would meet your performance requirement.

Fiberglass is great and the Modern is a nice product, but if you search the forums on here, you'll read some complaints about fiberglass from just that manufacturer and even instances where the window had to be removed and swapped out for other windows because the smell was so noxious.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5744342/horrible-smell-from-marvin-integrity-windows-installed-1-month-ago#n=121

Not intimating that it is even remotely the norm, but every product and the chemicals used in it's manufacturing, if not properly cured/mixed/applied, can generate some off gassing.