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nikola_dzodzo

Floor to ceiling windows in cold climate

7 years ago

Hi, we're designing a new lakefront home in Cleveland, Ohio where climate can be really harsh in winter. I was wondering if anyone has recommendations for installing floor to ceiling windows facing north towards the lake? Obviously we want to maximize lake views, but we're afraid of issues with condensation, heat loss, and noise coming from wind and lake.

Comments (29)

  • 7 years ago

    Don’t . It will cost a fortune to get windows compliant to local codes, and you may have to eliminate windows in other parts of the home to compensate for having that much R10 holes in your insulation envelope.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    How high will your ceilings be in that space?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have a 10 foot array of windows overlooking Puget Sound. Seemed like a good idea at the time. What kind of heat system will you have?

    My parents lived near Cleveland for years. They had a modernist house with a lot of glass. When we visited them we packed wool socks and down sweaters. It was all electric so if they set the thermostat for 70 the bill yould be over $1000 a month. 10 years ago. Cleveland is a damp cold. Its worse than the actual cold cold of Minnesota. *shiver*

    If comfort and energy efficiency are a priority for you, make sure your architect knows that, and understands what that means to you.

    8 months a year our house is fine. The rest of the time we have to choose between outrageous utility bills and comfort.

  • 7 years ago

    Ceiling will be highest in living room 11 feet, other rooms 8 feet. We will have forced air heating powered by natural gas furnace. Here's the suggested living room 3D if that helps. Even if we get the best triple glazed windows I don't think the R value would be anywhere close to R of the walls. I just wonder how do those all glass condos in NYC or Toronto owners keep warm in winter. Hmmm.


  • 7 years ago

    " I just wonder how do those all glass condos in NYC or Toronto owners keep warm in winter."


    Large electric or fuel bills. Or they turn the heat way down and head Soputh fo the winter...............................

  • 7 years ago

    I would design pockets for heavy lined floor to ceiling drapes to be closed over the windows after dark.

  • 7 years ago

    That’s a $1500 utility bill in winter. And maybe summer too. You do use AC, right?

  • 7 years ago

    One of the biggest issues of the north facing windows will be radiant heat loss. During outside cold extremes and at night, it will ”feel” cold even when the inside air temperature is pretty high. Best advice in this thread is from Palimpset to make provisions for heavy curtains in your design. If you have the budget, I would look at radiant heating sytems for the floor. This will offset the discomfort of the cold windows and cut down on the amount of air you move In the winter. You’ll still need forced air for the AC and will also use this system for whole house humidifcation the winter. We have heated floors in a couple of rooms and boy do they increase the comfort level on cold days.

  • 7 years ago

    the coldest days are short. assuming you arent wanting to look at a black hole at night, i'd explore both the heavy lined drapes and perhaps some sort of sliding insulated panels. don't know if they exist but they should.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Looks great! But its gonna be cold. Radiant heat! Good idea. Heres ours. Much less grand but same idea.

    Our house is all open, so its not like we can find another living room somewhere we can close off and huddle in.

    If you love it just be prepared for the bills.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Looking at installing similar north facing windows in our new build. My past experience with retrofitted sliding glass doors is that the install is paramount. Lots of spray foam does wonders. Double-glazed argon-filled units perform better than standard triple-glazed units, according to some knowledgeable sources.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    Do triple paned windows they are great in the summer and the winter . I use drapes if I find it is a bit coolin the winter more in my head then in actuality BTW

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    Well...one option to reduce overall initial expense is to lower the window head to about a foot below the ceiling line and raise the sill to about three feet above the floor. The smaller window units will be less expensive, and perhaps allow for some increased cost in U-value efficiency.


    Floor to ceiling drapes for evening use will also certainly help reduce operating costs.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Glass House, New Canaan, Conn. arch. Philip Johnson, 1949.

    (Johnson wore sheepskin in winter, boxers in the summer. :))

  • 7 years ago

    You'll still get spectacular views if you put in windows more geared to normal size, and your heating bill will be more favorable. Depends on your budget and priorities.

  • PRO
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The trouble is that architects and designers constantly fall victim to designs that just do not fit the local climate (while paying lip service to 'green design' and energy efficiency). Everybody loves the SoCal look but it makes no sense in the northern US or Canada. In Ontario, the current Building Code minimum insulation standard for walls is R-27. In contrast, the very finest triple glazed insulated glass windows are good for R-5 on a good day - less than one-fifth the insulation level of an ordinary wall.

    Naive buyers of 'window wall' homes and condos will be paying a tremendous price for this fad.

  • 7 years ago

    I am not far from you (Pittsburgh). I am assuming you are talking about Lake Erie. Yes, floor to ceiling windows over looking Erie would be lovely for 3 seasons, but winter would be a heating nightmare. We have to have insulated drapes closed for days if not weeks in the winter because of the cold with newer double pane windows, let alone having really large windows. The only windows we do not have any drapes on in the winter is on the kitchen window and the sliding glass door in the dining room. That is because there is a sun room with floor to ceiling windows off of those rooms and it blocks the cold and wind. Is it possible to have large window facing the lake with a sun room with floor to ceiling window to block the cold and wind?

  • 7 years ago

    my mom had her home built in fl, in the city, so even though she was right on the street, she wanted these huge like 7 foot tall and 8-9 foot wide. well yes it was very hot and eventually the fabric on those specially purchased curtains to go on those windows began to go bad. fine when she was younger. but older she could find noone to hang the curtains up if she had money to buy them. my windows in my old house , designed before electric were about 5'8 tall and no more than 3 ' wide. i could buy off the rack curtains and it was much easier to hang. yet i had sun the full day and got an excellent view of all.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    How much view of the lake are you planning to get out of that first 18" or so of glass off the floor??

  • 7 years ago

    true, that is where mine started, could have started at 3 foot. still allows you to look out while seated.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    What is the distance from floor level to the ground outside? You can mitigate efficiency issues with triple pane glass and a strong CFM (air leakage rating). My concern would be snow sitting against the base of the window and allowing water to penetrate into the house. If the ground is even with (or even a foot or two below with drifts) the floor level, you may be looking at doing a lot of shoveling and other work to keep the snow away from the windows.

  • 7 years ago

    jn3344, that view is gold. I plan to retire out there...someday!

  • 2 years ago

    Omg. People above don't know anything about modern engineering. They are taking about heating with resistive heat. They are taking about windows with R rating of 5. Meanwhile suspended film windows are rated up to R20 and can outperform R30 wall after accounting for the extra heat transferred during sunny days. Regarding AC, there are blinds people often install with south facing large windows. It's insane. If you don't know what is actually possible, stop taking about $1000 heating bills.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Their knowledge of modern engineering may have improved over the past four years.

  • 2 years ago

    Me thinks @michaelkuzmin will be back to link some sort of firm that would remedy the situation. Of course the company will most like be from Australia or Bangladesh.

  • 2 years ago

    Hmm - so one is up to R-12.5 and the other one does not list an R value that I can find. So where is the R20 window?

    There is essentially zero solar heat transfer into a north facing window in the winter. There might be a few scattered BTUs reflecting off the lake. But generally close enough to zero that it certainly isn't "outperforming" a R30 wall. A south window is different of course. And we are talking about the Midwest which isn't really known for its sunny winter days.

    Now, the other issue is the cost. Does anyone have a quote on a say 10x10 foot wall of windows in quad pane? May be worth it, maybe not.

    Sometimes posters here have antiquated ideas about heating costs with modern equipment/materials- I can get on board with that. But windows are pretty bad generally when it comes to heat loss. Most people are going to pay $10k for the extra panes on large windows. But some might. Trimming the bottom 3 feet off the window is a LOT cheaper.

    Blinds don't stop the majority of unwanted heat transfer in on a West or East facing window. South is not nearly as much of an issue with overhangs.


  • 2 years ago

    @davidpilati where? literally first link go under Performance and look at the first image