By design - you get invested in your upgrade choices and then do whatever you can to make them happen. If you knew the upgrade price right now - you'd look immediately for alternatives. If you have to wait for everything - you will take your initial choices because you've internalized them and are already envisioning your house like that.

Not surprisingly, this is where the profit margin is.

I am 100% sure they know the upgrade $ - they are delaying on purpose.

Agree. I think it’s probably the best course of action to just take house without upgrades & modify standard features when you can afford it. More choices & better quality at or lower the cost.

If you end up building in a single builder neighborhood - this is what you will get. A strategy is to go in with ALL standard choices. Tell them to not even show you upgrades. At that time, I will bet they will be much more interested in telling you the upgrade costs as an incentive to show you the higher end stuff.

Or - your "designer" is simply unmotivated and terrible - always that possibility!

Thanks for the thoughts. Our Realtor has done 6 new house builds this year with many other builders and said she had never seen one so awful, or one that could not provide upgrade costs on anything. I feel like they are totally wasting our and their time. We have a budget and we will be sticking to it. I hate the thought of having to go and tear everything out before we would move in. Ugh!!!

Who is the builder?

There is no question that tract builders make their profit on the extras. This is SOP for tract builders. They also, IME, do their best to force some upgrade money from you for items that should be included: some electrical upgrades that aren't truly upgrades but necessary for function comes to mind. Other examples of these type of upgrades: kitchen cabinets/appliances to get to even a semi-functional kitchen. Be careful. Your builder is either inexperienced (doubtful) or the price is so high they have learned to make you work for it per just_janni's post above.

If your realtor says this is unusual for the area, perhaps take it as an omen as to what dealing with them on other issues will be since one would think their design center employee would be on her/his best behavior to put you in a purchasing mood.

That said, people give advice as to not upgrading and planning to do so later on but that only makes sense if the stuff is relatively easy to swap out later as opposed to being structural. Cabinets are expensive to swap out - flooring is relatively easy to upgrade. Stuff relating to upgraded HVAC or whatever is expensive. There was a recent thread where the OP was planning to get rid of all the builder grade stuff because he thought of it as free - economically that doesn't make sense because you have paid for it. What makes sense is using the carpet for x years until you would normally replace and then upgrading to wood floors.

Call the design center manager. Explain what happened and ask for another designer by appointment. If you get the same runaround, then you can decide if you want to cancel.

There are a few factors in place here. We have bought new construction 4 times (from "pick tan or grey" townhouse to builder spec to full custom build from the ground up). If this is a custom build, the amount of flooring, cabinetry, etc. is different for each home and must be calculated depending on your plan specs.

I know when we built we received price upgrades pre-calculated for common options (maple cabinetry included, for example, but cherry and rift-sawn oak upgrades shown). If you want cumaru flooring with rustic hickory cabinets that might require some calculation. They should be able to give you a price range of the included item though and then you can ballpark how much additional it will cost. For example, tile flooring up to $5/sq ft is included or knobs up to $4.

You will get to a point where you feel like you cannot spend a nickel more on your house. Make sure you do the upgrades now that will be more difficult or expensive later...

- Adding square footage is more cost-effective now (I really wish we would have bumped out our garage and added square footage on the stairs).

- Choose the wood you want for trim and hardwood flooring now - there is so much trim to change out if you decide to upgrade later.

- Save money by getting vinyl flooring and formica for counters and add granite and tile later.

- Do plumbing and fireplace rough-ins but finish the basement and add fireplaces later.

You have to decide where your tolerance level for this sort of project is. I didn't like the options I was given so I researched myself and provided the builder with model numbers and color choices of options I wanted. But I was home with my little ones and had the time to do so.

Hireyour own designer. Do not rely on the builder’s salesperson. Because that is what she is. She is not a designer.

Take your realtor’s comments with a grain of salt. Or a whole salt shaker. She has a vested financial interest in this as well. She is not your friend in this. She is being compensated by the builder, not you. She has no fiduciary duty to you but to mollify the lamb to prepare it for the slaughter.

Only upgrade things you can not and will not change after moving in. Insulation, windows, door heights. Wood floors. Infrastructure. Decoratives like paint, or lighting, or countertops, or moldings? Forget it. And all of the tacky tacked on bits that usually pass for exterior upgrades should be skipped to begin with. Simple is always better.

Were you expected to choose all your finishes at that one appointment? Was this just an initial run through of options? Mine was done mostly in a day (because I flew in from out of state to do it), but I still made changes before it was all finalized. We had to go to a lighting store to choose lighting which then made me rethink my knob options.

Find out at what point you can no longer make changes without expensive change orders. I also found it helpful to take screenshots of all my options and organize into folders by room (flooring, tile, counters, knobs, light fixtures, etc.) to help me remember.

Start by choosing everything from standard options - even if you don’t love something, choose the best of the options. Then, with your budget in mind you can look at what, if anything, is worth upgrading. That will help you avoid another trap they have - they talk you into one upgrade, then none of the standard options on the next choice coordinate, so you upgrade, but then the next thing doesn’t coordinate so you have to upgrade again, until you’re entirely over budget but don’t know how to fix it.

We just went through this process with a tract builder. At our first design appointment, we were given a list that had the price for almost every upgrade option for our particular model. It was pages and pages long. We had to wait on a few things for prices because our model is a new one, but we could see from the get-go what most options would cost. We stuck to options that would be too difficult or more expensive to do later. Our builder seems to have figured out the sweet spot for setting the price at a point that seemed a little high for an upgrade to the basic options but was less expensive than replacing on our own after closing.

Hi all - thank you so much for the advice. we are going to think it through based on many of these responses and determine next steps. I guess I was naive because I was expecting what Caroline got, this is what is included in here are the prices for the various upgrades. I spoke to several people that have built their own homes, including a person that works at a different builder, and all gave me the same basic scenario on how the design center would work. so having this whole no prices and hurry up, was not in our plans. We have since been contacted by another person for the builder that has offered to take us back to the design center and give us prices so we can make educated selections.

This happens at other places as well. Several years ago, I was renovating 3 bathrooms. I went to my local Ferguson's. I'd been there with my daughter before when she was getting a new kitchen faucet - we just walked in, found what we wanted, were given a price and ordered it.

This time, a very pretentious young woman, told me I really should have made an appointment. I was not choosing all the fixtures for 3 bathrooms, only faucets in three and a tub and shower faucet - no toilets/tubs/basins. I said I'd be glad to do so and come back (quite a trek), but she reluctantly agreed to "help" me. I put "help" in quotes as she helped me with nothing! She "didn't have that information" about what different finishes the taps were available in, or their prices. In other words, a totally wasted trip.

I am well aware that some on GW have VERY strong feelings against Signature Hardware and don't want to again open that hornet's nest, but two days later, I drove to near Cincinnati (no appointment), and met with a very helpful, knowledgeable woman. She called to the back and had them bring things up for me to see. She knew what the available finishes were and...gasp!...she actually knew how much they cost. So yes, I bought them all from Signature Hardware. No problems and I'm still alive.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I just recently bought a townhouse and the design process was super simple. She had all of the prices and details readily available. I do agree with others in saying get what will cost too much more or be a giant hassle after the fact, Good Luck

Angio - I had the exact same experience at Fergusons's and I refuse to ever step foot in there again. They treated me horribly and it was humiliating. I felt like taking all my purchases I ended up buying elsewhere back in there like Pretty Woman and yelling "Big Mistake ... Huge!"

Same here. The plumbing supply house was the worse. Very rude acted like I was inconviencing them.

No prices on anything. After selections it was way over budget. Ended up sourcing things my self.

It is by "DESIGN CENTER PUPPY MILL" that you will be over budget The model you looked at was the Cadillac with all the extras. The design center has one purpose only. Fill out the sheet wilth all your selections, email you the spread sheet, you sign. The quicker the darn house is built? The happier they are. She is there to get you to closing.

She is no more a designer, than the check out guy at the grocery store is your PERSONAL CHEF. Get your own designer, take her to the design center, let her bring her icy stare...............................and make her your biggest ally. You should SEE my icy stare. It curdles blood : ) and the process begins to go as smoothly as skates on ice.

said we were taking too much time.

She told you you were taking too much time planning your house? One of the biggest investments in your life? No, no. Time for a new salesperson.

Once I test drove a car, and I told the guy I liked it, but I needed to drive a few more before I could make a decision. He actually raised his voice and told me that he'd given me his time, and if I didn't make a purchase, he'd wasted his time. I made it clear that IF I purchased that car, it would not be from him, and I asked for his supervisor.

Ladies, you know how women are treated at car dealerships if they're alone.

I'm not unreasonable, by any means, but I do expect politeness.

Call the design center manager. Explain what happened and ask for another designer by appointment. If you get the same runaround, then you can decide if you want to cancel.

Sounds like good advice -- give them another chance, but not two chances.

Same here. The plumbing supply house was the worse. Very rude acted like I was inconviencing them.

Simple: Say with all sincerity, "I'm so sorry. I can see that you're busy and you're not able to give me your full attention right now. So many places sell ___ these days. I'll not take up any more of your time." And start packing up your purse. They'll turn around fast.

I disagree with everyone bad mouthing design centers of the builder. We had everything is black and white depending on our choices. This happened both times we built in two different states with two "cookie cutter" builders and we knew exactly how much we would be charged. Of course, every area is different, but not always bad or needling a " designer". Best of luck and hope you can get better answers.

If the next appointment doesn’t correct things to your liking, I’d walk away.

@anglophillia, I also had a bad experience with Fergusons. I’ve been in there a couple times. I was always completely ignored, maybe because I was dressed very casual and look younger than I am. Once I asked for help and was treated very rudely. I think they didnt think I had the money to shop there. Had they been polite, I might have ordered everything for my house from them - counters, kitchen sinks, bathroom fixtures, bathtub. Money was really not an issue and I thought their prices were reasonable. I ended buying my kallista fixtures and caesarstone elsewhere and having a tub shipped directly from Italy. I’ve never been back to Fergusons again, nor will I ever go back.

Let me add: At Basic spec build: If you go the route of every single thing you select at a design center is outside their standard this, this, or this type package? Expect her NOT to know pricing at that second! I would caution you to upgrade ONLY those things not easily changed, with one exception. Plan now to up your closing price by about 20 % and wait for the spread sheet, and upgrade everything. ( kidding) That is a waste of resources and not wise most of the time. Surface mount lights? Take their junk, get your own. You can close on the house with a screwed in bare light bulb, and get your own light and your OWN electrician ( post closing) as the builder will not install yours, many times. Wall to wall mirror over the vanity? Leave it bare a free hang ready if you like. Appliances? No. As long as you plan the kitchen for size of apps , you can switch years up the road. Tile on the backsplash? Yes or leave it bare and get your own. Flooring like carpet upgraded to hardwood? Yes. A laundry faucet ? No. You get the idea I am sure...

Expect no "credit" for items you pass on, to be worth even a couple trips to the grocery.

Hmmm, I've had mixed experiences.

We were, at one point, going to build with Eastbrook. Or rather, step into a model that was in the framing stage and choose finishes. It took me about an hour in the design center to get a case of the heebie jeebies and decide this was not how I wanted to go. This was cemented by a trip through an "in progress" build. I figured if they were willing to let me SEE where they were cutting corners, where ELSE were they cutting corners that I could NOT see? The design center saleswoman was nice enough, but clueless. And more of a bobblehead doll in agreeing with everything. Really, an actual designer should tell you "no" when you're about to do something that just won't look good. These folks are not that.

Now, in progress with a custom build, I had an entirely positive experience at Ferguson's. BUT - I had my designer with me. Precisely because my builder is aware of how that game is played and the designer he likes to work with routinely points out items that give a similar look at a much better price point. In fairness, the Ferguson's consultant even led me to a new line from one of the higher end manufacturers that was very affordable and is called their "everyday" line. Fewer finishes available, but that's not a big issue when you're doing polished nickel.

I agree about service at Ferguson. All snobs. Our Ferguson plumbing supply location (for parts, tradespeople) has great guys who order anything I want. I can just skip the snobs at the showroom who are in a separate location.

Interesting the pretty much universal "Ferguson" experience! These young women they hire think they're VERY important. They look down on everyone (part of the reason is those 6" heels they're wearing!). If one does not come in with a designer, they assume one is trailer trash.

I'm an older woman and I always dress nicely when I go out - no jeans/hoodies/trainers for me. I even carry a VERY expensive handbag they will undoubtedly recognize. But still the snooty demeanor.

A fancy decorative hardware place in my town (carries Waterworks), has the same kind of young women working there. When I went in looking for pulls for the cabinets in my new kitchen, they were unwilling to be of any help at all. They told me that they are really not geared to retail customers - they typically work with designers who make those choices for their client. Huh? I've been shopping in this place for over 30 years and it is NOT a to-the-trade showroom - it's a place that carries decorative hardware but where one can also have keys made and pick up a new handle for the screen door.

I did get my revenge. I had a dental app't a week later. The dental tech who helps my dentist with all procedures, used to be married to the owner and her grandsons (college age) is expected to takeover the business soon. She's on very good terms with her ex. I told her what had happened and she was appalled. She told her ex. Next time I went in to get a few knobs for a new cabinet door in my breakfast room, the worst offenders were gone and I was very nicely helped.

as an aside - I just bought a reasonable amount of bathroom fixtures from supply.com (toilets, tubs, shower pans, vanities, faucets - approximately $15K) They were VERY easy to deal with, gave me additional discounts than what was on the website (already very competitive) and provided excellent service. MUCH of my order shipped directly from Fergusons - but they would never even give me the possibility of decent pricing as an owner / builder.

Also - when a few of my porcelain sinks arrived broken (thank you Fedex), supply.com replaced them immediately after I sent the pics. VERY GOOD experience.

Well it has been over two weeks and we still don't have any prices. Our contract says we need to have our construction meeting within 45 days of signing and I believe that is 10/15. I am so mad that I didn't do more research on this process. We researched the builder, but not the process and I am hating it. Ugh.
We are anticipating that we will get prices and have to start the design process again, just poke me in the eye with a sharp stick!
I don't think I have ever regretted a decision more than I do this one.
Someone above asked what builder - it is Homes by Towne Florida. Has anyone else had any experience with them?

So. when they contact you to set up "the construction meeting" .......you say......

How in the heck can I do that? I met with the designer, I have no idea what my home price will be with the selections I made. No one has gotten BACK to me and I have called ___________ times. I will be ready for a meeting when I have that information. When I have made adjustments if I deem necessary.

Thus.........

I have no way to tell you if your builder is good, bad , or indifferent. I can ONLY tell you that you will save NO money by not employing your own independent designer for this process. These are the very first of a thousand decisions. I would say this whether Towne, Toll Brothers , or Lego.com!! Get the help, if only on a fifty hour consultation basis to see you through this phase and those that follow. There will be a lot of "follow". Can't afford that? Yes you can. You can't afford NOT to do it. You will live with your results for YEARS. Which means if you put 7,000 towards that help? Ninety nine times out of a hundred, you will save twice that or more in regrets, and over a ten year time, will have spent 700 per year.......to love your home.

Just to counterbalance all the negative experiences with Ferguson, we've had a fabulous experience with them. The big caveat is that I didn't just walk in - my builder sent me to a specific (fairly new) salesperson, who has been helpful, polite, patient, and responsive. I do think part of it is that the salesperson is smart enough to know that it will serve him well if he becomes my custom builder's go-to guy, since the last one at another showroom moved away recently. We actually have ended up getting not just plumbing fixtures but also appliances and light fixtures there, as they've been so much easier to deal with than other vendors in town.

I also had a great experience at Ferguson, from sales to shipping to installation. I even cancelled a range and swapped it for a new one with no issues. Maybe it depends on the salesman. Mine has been there for years and was obviously very knowledgeable about all the appliances. He was very helpful and attentive.

Every home offered by a tract builder has a "per sheet". This sheet lists every option available on a specific model...along with the price for the upgrade. Get the per sheet and study it...I mean for hours. Make copies, start highlighting all the "goodies", then do the math. Do all this before setting the appointment with the "consultant". Remember, buy only the "up-grades" that cannot be done after closing such as; insulation, a higher SEER furnace, a sleeve under the driveway, drawers on your base cabinets, a gas line to the future BBQ, more electrical outlets...to name a few.

Chiflipper - that is what we were expecting to get. They say they don't have one, or maybe they just don't want to give us one. I was expecting to be able to look at choices know the price and make decisions. Instead we were forced to make decisions blindly. We had planned to do exactly what you are suggesting, but so far we can't decide on anything. As an example, the "standard bathroom" faucet is a moen centerset chrome version that will punch 3 holes into my marble counter top that can't be fixed. Well I need to know how much the next version up is, either a one hole punch or widespread so I know whether to pick what I really want because it is an extra $100 or get a cheaper version with the correct hole layout and replace later because they are trying to charge $500. I just have no idea.

Darlene I had a similar experience with a potential builder years ago and it was bad enough that I baled and we didn't follow through on building the home because I never made it past the design center experience. I think it also depends if this is a tract builder, semi-custom builder (not sure if that's a thing) or custom home builder.

The builder would only offer one type of plumbing components in the bathroom- say a posi-temp shower valve and a very narrow range of shower trim to choose from in one of three finishes. They used Moen plumbing components and trim in the bathrooms and wouldn't allow me to choose a Delta product if that's what I wanted. Bathroom faucets were "here are three options... pick chrome, brushed nickel or oil rubbed bronze". They wouldn't allow changes from a single hole to a 3 hole bathroom faucet. This builder wasn't going to give me the level of changes I was after. At the time had low prices but they had a VERY narrow range of selections and they had built those same homes by the hundreds. It was a well oiled machine but I was very disappointment at the design center... and these were half-million dollar homes in the midwest! We baled when I couldn't get some flexibility with the finishes and bathroom plumbing we wanted. I just think ultimately we need to go with a custom home builder. There is a semi-custom home builder here that seems to have a massive amount of options so I think it can just depend on the builder.

"As an example, the "standard bathroom" faucet is a Moen centerset chrome version that will punch 3 holes into my marble counter"

Okay. There's your answer regarding your budget for the home. Any builder who has a standard in THIS decade of a 4 inch centerset faucet is .........not going to give you a single thing. Not so much as a cabinet knob. Before you even agonize over WHAT faucet to pick? Plan to add a healthy 15% to 25% to your planned purchase price. That told you everything you wanted to know. His "standard" fridge is probably this. Your statement above told you all you need to know. The model home and Cadillac versus..........."our more basic level". lol.

^Jan has an excellent point.

I hope you are still in your cancellation period. Seriously consider getting out of this contract. This is just a preview of this builders process. Normally this is the honeymoon stage and yet you are faced with a very difficult design center associate. Think about the entire building process given your experience so far.

We had a horrible time with our design center “designer”. She was just a nutcase and was rude and unprofessional if you dare to ask a question. She went off on our realtor and then we contacted the owner of the company. We were about to get out of our contact and then come to find out others had issues with her as well. She was very unorganized - no checklist and very brief list of upgrades. She never reviewed cabinets with us and therefore we have junk tiny drawers in our large kitchen that don’t hold anything. I’ve visited other houses in our hood and they had large drawers mixed in with smaller drawers but it was never even addressed with us. I’m ticked now knowing what a witch she was and then getting screwed on that. I’m actually going to email all involved and see how they’ll correct. At least 5-6 houses of the same plan and the model have large drawers in kitchen. I had so much on my mind I didn’t even think about it. She was so nasty behind our back I wouldn’t let her talk like that to my dog! She doesn’t need to be working with people, she has no compassion or kindness and we didn’t treat her badly but she treated us like we were lower than dirt