If the first one was too easy, here's another one.

Who am I? Hint: A discontinued David Austin rose, introduced in 1994. I planted this rose just a few months ago so it may not look very typical of the form. It's strongly fragrant, and it's not The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild.

Ann

Ann,

I believe the three smaller roses are Evelyn.

Moses

Thanks for guess Moses! It’s close but not quite right. Hint: Each vase contains only each rose.

Ann

Ann,

So there are two roses growing on one stem? Wait a minute, I think I faintly see a third stem in one vase upon closer examination. I got my chance, so I will pass the identification challenge on, to another forum member.

BTW. They're beauties!

Moses

I'll take a guess Ann, even though I've never grown those roses..

The vase on the left in the top photo = 'Abraham Darby'.. on the right 'Evelyn'..?

The mystery rose is that 'Radio Times'?....

Whatever, they're all gorgeous, but one thing to note is just how similar so many of these Austin's are... they certainly know what appeals, repeating the same process over and over... not wanting to sound cynical, but just saying... can't blame them but it makes choosing a rose that's right for you, quite difficult... these days I do prefer the occasional odd ball...

I'm with Marlorena, a lot of the DAs look alike to me. I have to be very careful to separate and mark my Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas too because they look very similar.

My Abes and Evelyns look nothing alike, and look very different from yours, which are very beautiful just in a different way. It's interesting how different climates make such a difference. My Abes stay cup shaped and are pale pink on the outer petals with peach inner petals. My Evelyns produce flowers with nearly white outer petals, and apricot in the center. If that is Radio Times, it also looks different from mine, and mine look very different from either Abe or Evelyn in that they are warm pink with a yellowish base to the petals. I'll probably remove my Radio Times. It just doesn't want to grow and is extremely thorny, but it does have a great fragrance. I love this look so much that I am happy to have more. In fact, I have Princesse Charlene de Monaco, which looks similar (but less petals and deeper flower and scraggly bush), and I have Sonia Rykiel, which may be a child of Abraham Darby.

Abe

Evelyn

Radio Times

Ann.... this is quite funny.. I actually got it wrong !... I said 'Abe Darby' on the left and 'Evelyn' on the right, but apparently it's the other way round... oh well, I never can tell.. and I'll be honest, I cheated with 'Radio Times' … I looked up the dates when they were introduced like you said, and that was the only one I could come up with that looked right...

I've also got 'CR Mackintosh' and 'Anne Boleyn'... 'CRM' has been one of my best roses all summer... I didn't think I would like it, but it's been a real trooper of a rose..

Malorena - My. brain just can’t seem to process even the words right and left without getting them mixed up! This problem drives my husband crazy when we’re in the car so I let the GPS lady give all the directions.

seil - I have GC and used to have GT. I think GC is a bit more golden, GT was a bit more yellow but they’re quite similar!

noseometer - your roses are beautifu! I love how your Evelyn is so distinct from Abe. A recent vistor to my garden remarked that his Evelyn was much lighter than mine. He lives about 40 miles from me in a cooler, more humid microclimate. Here’s a typical Evelyn for me.

Ann

Wow are you sure that's Evelyn?! ;-) The closest I've had my Evelyn look like that is this, although I guess it's pretty close. I don't think I've ever gotten that rich salmon color. Vibrant orange, fading to pale pink, but the in-between stages don't get that rich color you get. Maybe the sun is too strong here.

Or maybe this (although as you can tell, she is quite variable).

Abe on the other hand, has looked like this a couple of times:

My Evelyn has always been orange/pink and I don't think it matters whether the sun is very strong or not. Currently, her color is very strong. The last photo is from today. I like variability so I'd love to have another Evelyn like yours!

Ann

I didn't guess anything right but the pictures are so lovely that it doesn't matter. I'm so glad that I have Abraham Darby again from ARE waiting to be planted, hopefully tonight. It's my husband's favorite rose and that alone makes it worth having. One of my favorites too, but there are many I like, in spite of not having a great opinion of the Austin empire.

I hope you and your husband enjoy Abe! Here's a collage of Abe I did last year. I'm surprised he's only about 3 x 3 in my garden. I have a grafted one from DA (full sun) and an own root (partial shade) and they are both about the same size. I'd read that it could be quite tall but mine are pretty small which is fine with me.

Ann

Thanks for your collage Ann! Because any excuse to look at pretty pictures of Abe is a good one...

Mine also has stayed pretty small and also shows how differently mine are colored.

Thanks noseometer!

This is a bush shot of the first blooms this past spring. The bush is now about 30% bigger but it still seems on the small side for a fourth year rose. Abe's color is very dark compared to yours. That's Olivia Rose Austin in the top left corner.

I've also noticed that Abe and Evelyn seem to have lighter colored leaves than some of the other DAs around them. I took this photo awhile ago because I wanted to record this "anomaly". It seems like the rose starts out with dark leaves like yours but then lightens as the season goes on. Maybe it's lack of food since sometimes the established roses get neglected. :((

Ann

Here's an Abe from a day ago.

Ann

What a fun thread Ann! I definitely notice the lighter leaves here and they can also have a tendency to get burned more in our heat. So far, I haven't had those rich colors on my Abe at all, more yellow than pink. My Evelyns look more like nose's Abes in color most of the time.

Very interesting lavenderlace! I guess color can really be impacted by climate! Glad you enjoyed the thread. I posted the Abe vs Evelyn quiz on three David Austin Facebook groups, got a lot of guesses, most people were wrong but we had fun!

Ann

I have a question about growing Evelyn. I think she may do well in my heat. I have a fence as part of our lower orchard that I was thinking of putting in a couple of climbers. My question is that when I was looking up growing Evelyn as a climber she comes up as a shrub. Although on the David Austin website they apparently sell both options. Currently they show Evelyn is unavailable as a climber for pre order. Can I buy a shrub Evelyn and just train her as a climber? The fence is 6ft tall and plenty wide. Or do I hold out for a "climber" Evelyn? I'm not sure what makes the shrub or climber Evelyn different? How do you grow her? She's stunning and I'm so curious about her famous scent! Thanks for any feedback. Tiffany

Hi Tiff - on this forum various people have said that there's really no difference between the shrub and climber versions of DA's roses. They are marketed as different but they are the same plant.

I think your idea will work - buy a shrub and work at training it as a climber. Mine is an own root; I would suggest getting a grafted one to speed up the growth and climbing! :))

Ann

I agree with Ann also Tiffany! In your warm climate, she will probably be a climber whether you want her to be or not! Especially if she gets a lot of water.

Thank you Ann and Lavenderlace for your feedback! I think I'll give it a try! After seeing all of these gorgeous roses, how can I resist?

She will definitely work as a climber for you Tiff. I’m just a few miles from you, and my ownroot from Heirloom is getting huge! She will easily grow as a climber, and I wish I had had room on my fence for her. I had thought that by going ownroot, she would stay smaller, not so. I put a flimsy trellis in the middle of her, thinking I would wind her around it. She soon broke free of the thing, but maybe it’s still helping her to grow up and then arch over.

She’s easily my best DA in the heat. She seems to love it!

I’m not going to post any bush shots, as my garden is a mess right now. I haven’t been well for a while. Here’s a few pictures of her arching blooms, though. Lisa

Hi Lisa, stunning pictures of Evelyn! I hope that you're feeling OK now. You had asked me a while back about Princess Charlene de Monaco own-root? Well, I can report back now that I don't think that it made them smaller as they want to be huge here too!

Thank you Lisa for your feedback and gorgeous pictures of Evelyn. I'm very encouraged! I hope you are feeling better as well, you take care!

I do hope you're feeling better Lisa..... you were missed...

Lisa - thanks for your comment and I hope you're doing better! :))

Ann

You’re welcome, and thank you! I’ve so enjoyed all these pictures of Abe and Evelyn. I think they’re my favorite DA’s. I was gifted an ownroot one gallon Abe Darby to replace my grafted one, that I still haven’t planted yet. I absolutely dread the thought of dealing with Dr. Huey again. He’s the gift that keeps on giving! lol Out of pure laziness I’m considering keeping it, and planting the new one next to it. Maybe someday I’ll remove the grafted one, or call in a “Mom favor” and have one of my boys do it. I already have a Sweet Mademoiselle rose on Dr. Huey that’s GOT to go! I have roses that need planting in the next few months, so I really do need the space. I’m thinking about putting an advertisement on Craig’s List or something similar. As long as they do the digging, they can have them.

Speaking of grafted vs ownroot, thanks for letting me know about PCDM, Lav. I was kind of hoping that going ownroot would tame her “grows like a weed” ways, but I guess that’s not the case. I’m glad I didn’t replace my grafted PCDM’s with ownroots, since yours are still super tall. Well, at least she’s narrow, so she doesn’t take up a lot of space width wise.

Tiff, I think you’re going to love Evelyn. It’s like she was made for this dry heat climate. She does like her water and fertilizer, but the heat and sun don’t seem to phase her at all. Of all the DA’s I’ve grown, she also holds up best in the vase. Most of my DA’s don’t last very long cut, although some are certainly better than others. Mary Rose, Winchester Cathedral, and Alnwick Rose don’t last cut for me at all. Evelyn is great, followed by Darcey Bussell and Abraham Darby. I have a few youngsters that I haven’t had enough time with to judge their vase lives.

As shown so beautifully by Ann and noseometer, Evelyn can be very variable. Mine resembles noseo’s more often than Ann’s richer coloring. It may very well have to do with the suns intensity, as the only time my Evelyn blooms are any where near as intensely color saturated is during cooler temperatures. She does have some buds now, and we’ve cooled off, so I’m curious to see if this round is more richly colored. Abe Darby varies for me too, but is usually more of a saturated peach/pink. It’s rare that mine look anything alike. Abe and PCDM sometimes look very similar, though.

Ann, I just noticed some of Evelyn’s new foliage looking lighter today, as well. I wondered if I should give her some fertilizer. Mine don’t get much fertilizer, other than compost and manure,(especially lately). I think I’ll give her some Gro-Power, and see what happens. I think it’s cooled down enough to get away with it.

Oh, it’s so good to be posting again! I’ve missed everyone. Lisa

Thanks for your comment Lisa! I know people have been wondering how you are and hoping for the best for you. Glad to have you back!

Ann

I love hearing that Evelyn has a long vase life! It kills me when they last one day or two in a vase before losing petals (lady of shalott)...

In 2021 I got my Abraham Darby as a tiny rooting from Noseometer.

Back in 2022 I rooted Evelyn, Abraham Darby, Radio Times, James Galway, Mary Magdalene, W.S. 2000, the Dark Lady, the Squire, Christopher Marlowe, Carding Mill, Spirit of Freedom & others. I sold rootings cheap for $10 to $20 and donated 100% to charities, listed on my Facebook: Facebook

My success rate with Evelyn was 80% compared to 10% with Abraham Darby. Evelyn was always the FIRST one to take root in humid box, and always stay 100% healthy in humid rooting box, compared to blackspotted Abraham Darby and Gertrude in the humid box.

Abraham Darby is MUCH HARDER to root than Evelyn since it likes fast-draining medium and no humidity.

This past winter 2023 I rooted 6 Evelyns and only 1 Abraham to gallon-size. They look nearly identical as babies. I can identify them by their scents: Evelyn smells like old rose and sweet peaches (as stated in David Austin website). Abraham Darby has a SHARP fruity scent (as stated in Austin website). Abraham Darby smells like SHARP grapefruit and melon, and NOT old rose like Evelyn.

Evelyn lasts longer in the vase, up to 5 days, and its fabulous scent lingers on my fingers when I strip off its petals. Evelyn needs full sun so it won't ball. Below is 12th-year-own root Evelyn in my heavy clay, zone 5 with LIGHTER OUTER petals as noted by Noseometer:

Below is a page from 2011 David Austin handbook, stating that Evelyn has 100 petals and old rose scent with fresh peaches note:

Below is my Evelyn bloom with 100 petals with INTENSE old rose and peaches scent, looking very peachy like above David Austin's picture, and LESS exposed stamens:

Below is a peachy Evelyn bloom, note the glossy healthy leaves, and thorns are more REDDISH:

Abraham DOES NOT last long in the vase, and stinks up in the vase like rotten melon and SHARP citrus. One sniff of Abe. is enough (too harsh), but I can stick my nose into Evleyn 24/7. Abe. can take partial shade better. Below is my Abraham Darby with LESS petals (70 as stated in David Austin Handbook), plus MORE exposed stamens.

Below is page on Abraham Darby from 2011 David Austin handbook:

Abraham Darby can take partial shade and more drought-tolerant than Evelyn (best for poor drainage clay and high rain climate like mine). Below is Abraham Darby (prone to blackspot and sawfly damage) after blooming, despite in a fast draining air pot.

In contrast, my 12th-year own root Evelyn is always healthy for the past 12 years: NEVER see blackspots, mildew, rust, RMV (rose mosaic virus), nor proliferation. See my Evelyn (short shrub less than 2 feet) below in July with 80% humidity:

Below pic. to show DARKER green leaf of Abraham Darby on left, and PALER leaves of Evelyn on right. I have both alkaline tap water at pH 9 and tons of acidic rain and Evelyn young leaves are always pale.

Below middle PALE leaf is Evelyn, the left & right leaves are Abraham Darby. Evelyn leaves are paler and smaller on LONG and fast growing octopus canes. I prune Evelyn down to 1 foot after each flush, and it grows long octopus canes with buds .. the repeat is very fast. I get the most cut blooms from Evelyn among my 160 own root fragrant roses:

Below are the young leaves on Abraham Darby infested with blackspots with shorter cane, pic. taken 8/18/24 in high humidity:

Below are Evelyn's young & pale leaves: 100% healthy with reddish thorns, and on LONG octopus cane due to its vigor as own root. Pic. taken 8/18/24 after 24 hours rain.

The best way to identify Evelyn versus Abraham Darby as tiny rootings is TO TASTE THE LEAVES. Deer and rabbits never eat my Evelyn for the past 12 years, but they devour my 3rd-year own root Abraham Darby (got my Abe. Darby as rooting from Noseometer).

Leaves of Evelyn are BITTER but leaves of Abraham Darby tastes like fresh collard greens: succulent, mild, and juicy. During drought animals love to eat Abraham Darby for its juicy & succulent leaves (hold more water, thus prone to blackspots and sawfly damage). I have to put chicken wire around Abraham Darby to protect it from rabbits:

Tiffandrew-So.CA/9b with regard to your question of WHY David Austin has 2 options of Evelyn as a climber OR a shrub. Evelyn was bred in 1991, that's 33 years for sporting to occur.

Sporting of roses is a result of decades of being grafted on Dr.Huey (a climber), such as climbing version of Crimson Glory (a mutation of hybrid tea Crimson Glory), or climbing Tropicana (a mutation of hybrid Tropicana), or climbing Clothilde Soupert (a mutation of tiny Clothilde Soupert polyantha), or Marie Daly (pink) as a mutation of Marie Pavie (white), or Lady Ashe (peach) is a sport, or mutation of Aloha (pink).

My climbing Crimson Glory is slow to repeat (cannot be pruned short), versus my HYBRID TEA short Crimson Glory has fast repeat. I wanted climbing Clothilde Soupert and a nursery told me that it DOES NOT repeat as well as Clothilde Soupert short polyantha.

Since version #1 Evelyn (pic. below) is much easier to root than Abraham Darby, nurseries sold version #1 Evelyn as Abraham Darby by mistake. Version #1 Evelyn has such vigor that it's always healthy plus can be pruned short down to 1 foot, with fast repeat. Below is version #1 Evelyn shown in 2011 David Austin handbook:

The mutated sport of Evelyn (climber version #2) as pictured in 2016 David Austin handbook below is sold as Evelyn with buttonhole but with slower repeat (from being a climber), and less scent (due to less exposed stamens). Plus it's much harder to keep a climber healthy: