fall color is cyclical ... based on a multitude of stresses ... when did you plant yours.. how old ... how long since planting .. etc ...

whats ambient weather been since spring.. drought.. excess rain.. etc ...

also ... color can be extremely variable within short space ... even across a 5 or 10 acre lot ...

here in my MI ... after severe drought most of the very hot summer ... trees are nearly skipping color.. and leaves are just turning brown and falling off ... it will be different next year ... im not worried about it ...

ken

btw .. i like your idea of capturing the genetics of one that you prefer ... thats brilliant ... but.. based on what i suggested above ... it may take a few year.. to get established... settled in ... and be what it should be ...

you can not change the genetics thru transplanting ...

do you know how to move a plant.. and all that.. if not.. try a post in the shrub forum ... of which.. this is ....

ken

Like Floral, I would like to see a photo of your plant along with a leaf and branch closeup.

One thing I have noticed is that sun amount makes a large difference in autumn color development. How much of the day are yours in sun?

Like floral I too was wondering if you actually had Tree of Heaven, Ailanthus altissima, growing instead of a sumac. These are a highly invasive tree with leaves similar to sumac and have a yellow fall color as opposed to red.

Rodney

Too much shade will also often reduce red & orange in favor of yellow.

UPDATE:

After four (or more) years, it is now obvious that this tree will not ever have red leaves. They turn yellow then fall off. I am going to chop it out.

Meanwhile, I saw the plants with red leaves near the railroad tracks in back of a local diner. I asked the manager if I could dig a few and she said "Go at it..."

Not only did it have the correct red leaves but the newer bark had that familiar fur on it. The one in my yard does not. I extracted two of them, one about 4' tall and the other about 6'tall. They have shallow roots and will be set in place tomorrow.

Unfortunately I do not have any pictures of all this.

Ailanthus does NOT turn red like that -- it is a sumac.

That’s true beng. But if you read the whole thread you’ll see the pic is not the OPs plant. It’s one which the OP thought was the same. Without photos of the actual plant in the OPs garden the id is still moot. But since it always goes yellow and lacks the stagshorn texture it’s very likely not sumac. A photo of the imposter would settle it.

What do you mean by "staghorn texture"? Is that the fuzz on the newer growth?

Rhus typhina is called Stagshorn Sumac because the velvety texture of the stems resembles the ‘velvet’ on a stag’s antlers.

Still no photo. Has the plant already been destroyed?

No leaves left on the old one. No fuzz either. It will get chopped out soon.

The new ones do have the fuzz and one has a few red leaves.

Gotta wait a year to know for sure but I think it is right this time..

Well, if the yellow leaved tree is an Ailanthus as suspected then you are going to have to either dig the tree out or use a brush killer on the stump when you cut it. Ailanthus are tenacious and will resprout from untreated stumps and roots.

Rodney

Even a shot of the bare twigs would probably be sufficient for id.

Jim Waneright, we would love to help you properly identify the tree with yellow foliage. However we need pictures of the twigs and possibly any leaflets lying below that tree.

Ailanthus leaflets are distinct.

https://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/aial9.htm

I appreciate your interest but I am having a difficult time trying to get over there to take pictures. If I lived closer it would be easier. We plan to get the team over there for a winter prep and will try to remember to take pics.

I thought the plants were in your garden?

Yes, they are but at the moment, I am about 40 miles away from there. (:

When you are next there, Ailanthus has a fairly distinct smell that gets described somewhere between peanut butter and old socks. Perhaps lightly scratch a branch to see if it has noticeable smell.

The long awaited pics...

These were just sent to me. They are of the plant going in. Fuzz and definitely red leaves.

No report on the stinky socks peanut butter.

My autumn favorite Rhus typhina -- there is no mistaking their twigs.

I think we were already pretty clear that the red leaved fuzzy ones were Rhus typhina. As are the ones pictured in your first post. It’s the non fuzzy yellow leaved look-alike plants you mentioned in your very first post which would smell of pnb.... if they’re Ailanthus as we suspect.