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lbee77

HRV and air quality

7 years ago

post renovation our air quality is poor. Elevated vocs and formaldehyde.

Ive been reading about HRVs. But how effective would it be to reducing the total VOC load? Compared to just giving it time .

Comments (13)

  • 7 years ago

    @Austin Air Companie, thanks for the reply. So you think an HRV would be a good idea then.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I's a good idea to install an HRV for the above mentioned reasons - and Radon Gas as well.

    Have you tested for or even thought about Radon?

    IMPO

    SR

  • PRO
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lisa it depends. Because there are two different kinds of these kinds of devices HRV or ERV. The caveat with both is now you have another separate system to maintain and repair and the longer they run the higher your utility bill will be.

    You will be at a loss which one you should pick. Some say climate, some say no just pick one. I think the choice is more about humidity related concerns, but there is no solid reasoning in my opinion. It's a toss up, the more I read about these devices.

    Back in the old days if someone wanted fresh air, they would go and crack a window. So clearly there are cheaper options, but you have to be willing to get up and open or close the window. (Oh, the agony!)

    Your best bet is to reduce as much as possible the VOC containing crap in your home. Furniture, cleaning products, perfumes, etc. (Nearly anything made in Asia from the furniture realm)

    Then place some plants around the house to try to reduce the remainder as much as possible the natural way.

    If you want an ERV / HRV just realize it's an expense that does not go away, and in some cases they may make additional problems. Like a need for a whole home dehumidifier which is yet another system to maintain and repair.

    HRV Vs ERV Which One?

  • 7 years ago

    Good advice from @Austin. I'm a fan of HRV's (or ERV's in a few situations) but they are not a panacea and there is increasing evidence that in better sealed houses that the recommended air exchanges they provide are not nearly enough.


    The first step for good IAQ is to get rid of the sources as best you can. Furniture that is off-gassing formaldehyde may well do so for years and even opening all of the windows in the house won't be enough to get rid of it and as soon as the windows are closed the fumes continue to build up and become imbedded in other fabrics. This stuff should really never be brought in to people's homes.


    Next, IMO, is open windows if the outdoor temp and humidity are within a reasonable range and there's a bit of a breeze.


    Next is similar to above but using a whole house fan in conjunction with open windows if there is not enough natural breeze.


    Last is relying on an HRV or ERV.


  • 4 years ago

    Lisa Bee, did you ever solve the off-gassing problems with your kitchen cabinets? I am having the same problem and havent been able to return to my house for 7 months! I have Austin Healthmate Air cleaners, EZ Breath ventilation in the basement, and am now having and ERV installed. I am not even sure it is the cabinets; the other materials do not seem to have an odor coming off of them. Am beginning to think about removing the cabinets and replacing them, but honestly, I can't face more construction and more uncertainty and more expense! Please reply when you have the chance.

  • PRO
    4 years ago

    This is an old thread, but since it's been resurrected, I thought some additional information would be helpful.


    Residential indoor air quality standards are evolving--as they should. Energy conservation goals are driving the construction of "tighter" homes which can result in elevated concentrations of moisture and indoor pollutants. Ventilation strategies need be implemented to deal with each.


    Strategies such as opening windows and turning on fans may be helpful for rapidly ventilating a living space following an event that generates smoke or an unpleasant odor (like when I'm doing the cooking, for example) or to deal with high relative humidity following an event like a shower or to provide short duration make up air for a high-capacity range hood. But, unless you live in a climate where you can live with open windows year 'round, it's not the best strategy to deal with a continuous source of indoor pollutants as is the case with chemical off-gassing of construction materials, and furnishings. Nor is it the best strategy if outdoor air pollutants (e.g., pollen) are a problem for one or more occupants. In those cases, a controlled mechanical ventilation designed for the specific purpose is a better strategy.


    With respect to formaldehyde, guidelines vary from country to country, but most suggest around a 0.1 ppm maximum concentration to preclude health issues. If you know the average concentration in your home and the volume of the conditioned living area, you can calculate the supplemental ventilation rate required to keep it under 0.1 ppm. That said, if the main contributor to the problem is localized (e.g., new kitchen cabinetry) the average ventilation rate is of less interest than the local (i.e., kitchen) ventilation rate--especially if you spend a lot of time in your kitchen. The required local ventilation rate should decrease over time as the rate of off gassing declines.


    Depending on the design of your home, the existing HVAC system, and the particular ventilation strategy, you may be able to use a single mechanical ventilation system or you might need one specific to the kitchen area and another for other areas of your home. I think you'll be well served to consult a HVAC design professional with experience designing and implementing ventilationsystems. That's not likely to be the same guy who services your HVAC equipment or the local sales guy.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Just to clarify. 0.1 ppm formaldehyde is the limit above which health problems are known to occur. E.G. > 0.1 ppm is bad. WHO recommends no higher than 0.08 ppm. The EU ECHA is considering a limit in residences of no greater than 0.04 ppm and as their medical director has stated 'there is no safe level of formaldehyde, only levels of potentially lower risk'.

    Unfortunately, as with numerous areas, the U.S. is far behind other developed countries with regard to chemical/compound safety and indoor air quality.

  • 4 years ago

    "Unfortunately, as with numerous areas, the U.S. is far behind other developed countries with regard to chemical/compound safety and indoor air quality."


    This might be theoretically correct but it's not necessarily insightful. Been to Europe lately? It can be hard to find a dwelling that's less than 100 years old, unless you're in an area rebuilt after war damage. Stringent product requirements? That's fine, I'm okay with those. The EU is always looking for things to do and while many think they go too far, no harm done except when they waste time with matters at the margins of importance. Indoor air quality? That's what windows and structural leakage are for.

  • 4 years ago

    "Indoor air quality? That's what windows and structural leakage are for."

    That's an antiquated ill-thought theory that should have died decades ago. Structural leakage is actually quite bad for IAQ. Air pulled in through wall cavities brings with it whatever is in those wall cavities. Worse is when air via structural leakage results in moisture within the wall cavities that then results in mold and decay.

  • 4 years ago

    I was referring to your comment that seemed ill-informed, I wasn't speaking of theories but rather reality that I've seen and experienced.


    Ducted HVAC systems are rarely found in residential structures outside North America. Even in newer structures in the developed world, heating is typically radiant and ventilation is by windows. Air conditioning, in the limited areas where it can be found, is typically via minisplits. Ducted HVAC can be found in newer and larger commercial structures but even those sometimes can have opening windows.


    The office building I worked in in a Western European city had these features - radiators for heat, windows for ventilation, and floor fans that were brought out on hot days. No theories were involved.


  • 4 years ago

    Sure buddy, windows and fans - on a hot humid day, what are you going to do? Suffer through it and run dehumidifiers at the same time?


    So the European way is superior? Obviously not. Filtered HRV, ERV, or something else is a far better solution than just opening windows and let the materials inside your house endure the outside climate "Just cuz europe does it" is absolutely absurd.


    How about when your neighbor is burning wood next door, sending smoke straight through your windows and your VOC levels exceed 2500ppb from that alone?


    Your "reality that you've seen and experienced" is the one that is ill-informed.

  • 4 years ago

    The person was citing EU air standards for residences, and my comment was directed at that and that only. It's like comparing apples and oranges. And I explained why.

    Do you have any insights to add? Or just like to pound your feet and wave a flag?