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theladyinred03

Second guessing every decision about kitchen reno. Please help!

7 years ago

Hi, I posted recently about ideas for my kitchen backsplash and the responses were incredibly helpful but also showed me that I have even more big picture questions. You are all SO knowledgeable. Please help! Bear with me, this will be long, but I've done my homework by reading tons of posts before posting.


As some background context, we are gut renovating an entire apartment in NYC, which unfortunately brings with it many levels of bureaucracy...building engineer review/approval, board review/approval, expediter moving things through city for permits, strict building rules for the GC and subs who will be doing the work, very high price for everything given the NYC region, etc. Oh, and also we don't even live there yet since the renos are so extensive!


The plans are done and will hopefully be approved soon. In the meantime, our architects are encouraging us to pick everything in advance so that they can be added to the plans so that the contractors who bid on the project will be able to provide fairly accurate cost assessments. Which makes sense...


But I also know that in order to pick items, we need to see them in our space. And that's a problem for the following reason: Our kitchen leads to a covered terrace, which the previous owners decided to enclose by removing all the windows from the kitchen. We will be removing the terrace enclosure and reinstalling windows in the kitchen so we will regain some natural light (south-facing) but (1) there is no natural light right now to test how cabinet/counter/backsplash colors look and (2) there's also no way to test paint colors on the walls because the walls are covered in subway tile.


This is what we're thinking so far.

Cabinets: White shaker-style - committed to this

Hardware: unlacquered brass pulls and faucet - committed to this

Kitchen floor: 18" square black and white porcelain ceramic tile - fairly committed to this

Backsplash: very light green ceramic or glass tile - fairly committed to this because I need some color in the kitchen given the black/white floor and the countertop considerations below. Something very faint but not plain white.


Countertop: NEED HELP. I need something relatively low maintenance given that I am a frequent cook, I'm not a very neat cook, and we have a small child. So, that's a no to marble. I had settled on Taj Mahal quartzite since it seems hard and non-porous.

Question 1: I do not want a counter that's predominantly grey. I know there is a lot of variability in slabs but if I found a Taj Mahal slab that was cream-color, do you think it will go with the black/white floor tile? I think of black/white checkerboard like a neutral so I figured it would go well. Do you agree?

Question 1a: If you agree, what color should I paint the cabinets (keeping in mind I have no way to really test in the light we'll have)? The kitchen faces south but given that the windows we will be installing will face a covered terrace we won't get tremendous amounts of natural light no matter what. I know White Dove is mentioned a lot with Taj Mahal but since we won't get a ton of sun, will it read too yellow? Would Simply White or Chantilly Lace be crisper? I know I would ideally be able to test this in the kitchen first but I'm not sure if we'll be forced to make selections before the kitchen windows are installed.

Question 2: Architects say that for Taj Mahal, the local price for 3 cm is incredibly high and we need at least 2 slabs so they are recommending we get 2 cm slabs and miter to get to about 2". To me thicker counters read contemporary which isn't really the look we're going for. Do you think that a 2 cm slab would be sufficient or should we make it thicker, and, if so, to what height?

Question 3: Do you think a beveled edge can be done on Taj Mahal?


AND alternatively, if you don't think that Taj Mahal would look good with black/white floor, then what?

What do you think about Silestone Calacatta Gold? I think it's pretty but worry about the "fake" look. I have the same questions about it. Is it relatively low maintenance in terms of upkeep? Would I want to use solid slab or miter the counters, and, if so, to what height? What paint color? I see Chantilly Lace mentioned a lot with this stone.


Apron-front sink: What do you recommend that's 30" wide, single basin, ideally with offset drain? Don't like the look of Kohler Whitehaven self-trimming and have seen too many bad reviews about Shaw/Rohl to want to spend that much. Any experience with Blanco or La Toscana? Any other brands to look at?


Ceiling lights: Architect wants to do canned recessed lights. Do I want 2500/3000/higher? We would like a fairly bright kitchen but don't want the lighting to cause the cabinets to read yellow.


If you read all of this, thank you! As you can see, I really need either some validation about my Taj choice (and answers to my questions about the fabrication) or some guidance about what I should look at instead.


Thank you again in advance.

Comments (16)

  • 7 years ago

    I can immediately recommend that your light temp be no lower than 3000k. I find that to be a nice, clean, soft neutral white, but some others do think it is still too yellow. I feel that 5000k is too cold and blue, even though it approaches natural sunlight -- it doesn't feel the same as natural sunlight to me. Others prefer it.

    If you can get to a lighting store, it should have a display of the different light temps so you can see how they look to you (PS, different brands, even though labeled identically as to lumens and color temp, will vary in how they look and how well they light a space. Mine are Philips, and I like them. I have seen Cree well recommended also. There is also an online seller that will design the whole kitchen lighting (cans and undercabinet lights) that many on this forum have used -- you will have to search for it, I can't recall the name of the company right now.

  • 7 years ago

    I'm not seeing the Taj with black and white floors. I love the black/white tile floors but not with lots of movement in the counters.

    Would you consider absolute black honed granite. No worries about stains there. It would also look great with your backsplash + floors.



    Taj



  • 7 years ago


    Fire Clay Sea Glass

  • 7 years ago

    yeah, I'd do either solid black or solid gray for the counter -- otherwise the combined patterns at two different scales will overwhelm the space.


    I like a green backsplash, generally, but I'm finding it hard to make sense of it with your other finishes. Do you have any inspiration pictures that are helping you visualize? Would be curious to see anything taking a similar approach.

  • 7 years ago


    Rénovation et décoration 53m2 Paris XIe · More Info


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  • 7 years ago

    I think your questions are too large and too far-reaching to be answered on this forum. Too many moving parts. You need to hire a KD.


    Also, beware of black-and-white checkerboard floors. They are a maintenance headache. The black shows and accentuates every bit of dust and splatty spill, and the white shows every crumb. They are extremely difficult to keep looking clean. Just a heads up so that you won’t be cursing later.

  • 7 years ago

    This was one photo I was using as inspiration https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchen-traditional-kitchen-minneapolis-phvw-vp~112613 along with something like this for the backsplash (shown with Taj) https://www.houzz.com/photos/mediterra-transitional-kitchen-miami-phvw-vp~49683520 or similar to these

    https://www.houzz.com/photos/henlopen-ave-new-construction-beach-style-kitchen-phvw-vp~8013635

    https://www.houzz.com/photos/staging-wood-st-chicago-traditional-kitchen-chicago-phvw-vp~22919116


    I think a black counter will make my kitchen feel heavy and dark. So do you think something like a whiter quartz with not much movement would go better with the overall look?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I would love soapstone with your choices, but if you’re against dark, I would go with a solid white quartz. No movement.

    Have you thought about zellige tiles? The whites are beautifully varied, as is the soft green.

    https://www.cletile.com/collections/glazed-terracotta-tile-zellige

    I like 3,000k for lights.

  • 7 years ago

    In all of your inspiration photos, each countertop 'goes' well with its respective floor. The black and white floors others have posted, and even your inspiration pic, are not matched with anything like Taj Mahal. It seems like you are mixing two completely different styles that do not complement each other (natural, warm stone with flowing movement paired with geometric black and white . . . then adding in green?). Each of those styles/colors/patterns can be developed into something nice, but I too would be interested to see if you've seen any inspiration photos that successfully tied such disparate designs together.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Black and white floor tiles are a bold statement...they are going to be the boss in the room....not sure that I see them as a neutral because of the bold patterning.

    I do not think either Taj Mahal or the Silestone will work with the floor. If you want one of those counters plus a green backsplash, I think the floor needs to change.

    Put together an idea board with the finishes/choices you are suggesting; then compare those to your inspiration pictures. EVERYTHING needs to work together instead of fighting each other. I think you will see the harmony in your inspiration pictures versus your suggested choices.

  • PRO
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    No to black/white floor with Taj. No. Please no.

    You are all over the place. If you can afford a reno in NYC? Get the DESIGNER on site now. She will help you focus, edit ideas, and will be invaluable in monitoring a project that is more difficult by far in this type of location.

    Either way, you can't approach this from a One from column A, one from Column B set of inspiration photos. As suggested above, what makes you love any element in any photo is the BODY of work represented in the photo. The whole of the result. Taken apart ? Spell dominoes.........the falling down kind.

  • 7 years ago

    Your inspiration photo shows a HUGE kitchen with lots of space and lots of windows. (those lights are $1200!!). You need to take a step back and see what you want the finished product to look like. Taj will not get you your inspiration photo. The Taj with green has a completely different feeling, flooring. etc.

    You need to be able to see what you want OR hire someone that can "see" it for you.


    Here are some helpful websites on your journey....


    [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-dsvw-vd~4306041[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-dsvw-vd~4306041)

    http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm#.Wq1aeWrwaM8

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

    [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/things-you-added-or-removed-that-you-love-regret-in-your-kitchen-renov-dsvw-vd~4273188[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/things-you-added-or-removed-that-you-love-regret-in-your-kitchen-renov-dsvw-vd~4273188)

    [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/10-tests-for-you-and-your-contractors-first-meeting-dsvw-vd~5332686?n=90[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/10-tests-for-you-and-your-contractors-first-meeting-dsvw-vd~5332686?n=90)

  • 7 years ago
    I’m in a similar stage of the build process and one important thing I am constantly remind myself of is to put the inspo pics in context. To echo what other posters have said, it’s the entire picture, rather than the individual elements, that tend to pull you in. So when you find a picture you love, make sure to note if it has things that simply aren’t an option (16 ft vaulted ceilings, twice as large of a space, floor to ceiling windows, etc.) I think it’s very important to make sure the things that are really pulling you in are things that can be replicated :)
  • 7 years ago

    So I am reading this thread while my 8 yr old reads in bed next to me (doing the nighttime routine) and i am getting overwhelmed for you. Dude, you are stressing me out. Seriously, I can’t get into all of your questions but for what it’s worth will offer a few ideas to consider. I live in NYC as well so I get the issues. I am developing a condo in Brooklyn and have the benefit of a designer. Don’t get too busy, pick an item you love and build around it. We are doing two types of kitchens. In one we are actually using the Silestone Callacata Gold for the island , counter and backsplash. It will go to the ceiling where the hood sits in front of it. White upper cabinets so as not to compete and a walnut type wood for the lower cabinets w/ all appliances integrated with it. If you want to see a kitchen with the Silestone callacata gold go over to 58th BTW lex and 3rd. The Pogenpohl store has it on display. I was also concerned with upkeep so I stayed away from marble (we did marble on the last project, looked great but gets messed up so fast). For the orher kitchen we are doing the blk/white theme. Large island with brazilian soapstone, waterfall. Then Silestone iconic white for the counter and backsplash to draw the sharp contrast and make the soapstone really stand out. There the hood will be integrated into the white upper cabinets for a very clean, modern look. There are tons of fantastic kitchen stores in NYC, steal ideas. Heck, they will offer design services I am sure. I am not a big pogenpohl fan but scavolini has a great showroom in soho and the Flatiron area has a ton of design and kitchen places to wander around. You will live with these decisions for a long time, be confident in what you do. Good luck.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    I love the look of black/white floors, but having had them, I was delighted the day they left my kitchen. They are VERY high maintenance. I know this is less a problem in a NYC apt as the muddy/wet feet will have traveled a significant distance before reaching your kitchen - the same with the dog.

    I would do hardwood floors that are the same as you have in the rest of the apartment. As for cabinet colors - who is building these cabinets? Are they a "brand"? Are you using a custom cabinet builder? Will they be hand-painted on-site the way English cabinets are? Or will they be spray painted in the shop/factory with a special paint the way US cabinets are done?

    White cabinets with wood floors with soapstone countertops would look wonderful and be easy to care for. It's also a timeless look. The cabinet color should not affect the price of the cabinets.

    I bought unlacquered brass pulls for my kitchen 2 1/2 years ago. They looked gorgeous...for about 6 months. Now, the pulls on the top cabinets are badly tarnished - the bottoms not as badly. At some point, I will take them all off and take them to my local brass place and have them polished and lacquered. I'm just not into "tarnish" on my copper, brass or silver! I like them all shiny and bright!

    I would consider using a honed marble large subway tile for a backsplash. It's so easy to keep clean and always looks stylish and fresh.