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Recommendations for DW brands/models for two dishwasher kitchen

shead
January 23, 2019
last modified: January 23, 2019

We are planning a house renovation and will have two dishwashers in the kitchen, one on each side of cleanup sink. I want both to be integrated so I can have non-matching brands and models for optimal performance. One DW will be mainly pots and pans and cutlery while the other will be glassware and dishes. I’ve had an 800 series Bosch before with the silverware rack in top and really liked how well it cleaned but hated the long cycle time (over 2 hours). I’ve read that Miele is considered the top of the line so I’d consider those for one or both of the DWs. I plan to go see both of those brands as well as others at some point but travel time would be 2+ hours each way so I’d like to somewhat narrow down the options. I’m also not opposed to heated dry DWs either.

Any thoughts?


Edited to add: Thoughts on KA for dishwasher? Again, I’m not opposed to a heating element.

Comments (26)

  • Buehl - We Want SW Back Unconditionally

    I think the issue with long cycle times has to do with the low water usage (to save water) in today's DWs, not the DW models themselves.

  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    Bosch. Every DW has long cycles and lower powered pumps these days. It's how they get Energy Star certified.

  • Mrs Pete

    Bosch. Every DW has long cycles and lower powered pumps these days. It's how they get Energy Star certified.

    I didn't know that, but I hate how long my standard dishwasher cycle requires now.

    With that in mind, is an Energy Star model a smart choice? Would it be better to have a shorter /more intense wash? Does it kind of come out even?

    On this subject, I'm asking, not telling ... but I'm interested in the answer.

  • shead

    @GreenDesigns, can you elaborate on why you recommend Bosch and why it’s preferable to Miele?


    @Mrs Pete, I don’t think Energy Star is as efficient as they claim. I switched to a Speed Queen washer a couple of years ago because I prefer the ease of use and simplicity of the old school washer design. *I* like controlling the water level ;)

  • Kim G

    Miele has models that have an hour long wash/dry cycle. I do not have the feature available in my Miele.. I have a 3+ yr old miele and find it loads flatware/dishes/pots/pan well. We seem to use a lot of flatware and I very much like their 3rd rack over Bosch as I can load other utensils/ramekins/measuring cups in addition to flatware. Miele also has good flexibility for loading stemmed glassware.


    I believe Bosch also has models with an hourish cycle time. They also have a 3rd rack design that focuses less on flatware and more on bowls etc. I can’t speak to how well they would load pots and pans. When you visit showrooms takes you dishes/pots/pans/glasware with you to see which ones work best for you,. My miele on normal runs about 2:20 min. Since I run either at night or between meals - I don’t find this to be an issue. DIshes are dry when the cycle is complete with their open air dry feature.

    shead thanked Kim G
  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    You can't even find a non Energy Star model these days except at the very low end $250 one spray arm type, or at the way upper end 5K virtually commercial products. Energy Star is about energy use, and has nothing to do with cleaning ability or anything else.

    But, the Energy Star rating is judged on the Regular cycle. Without any add ins like heated dry or potscrubber. The pump HP is set, no matter what. So you can look for the largest power rating possible on that. Maytag and Kitchenaid still use 1/3 Hp motors, I think. Most others use 1/5 HP. American DWs also have a heated dry function as an add on, where Euro ones use a condensate or fan added condensate type drying system. Heated dry decreases the cycle time, but costs to do so.

    But there is also the technology of the number and placement of the spray nozzles, how they are angled and the number of water outlets, that contributes to a good wash. That is where the Euro models like Bosch and Meile excel. They have always had to deal with more restrictive energy requirements.

    It is sorta like when low flow toilets started. American manufacturers initially kept the old technology but didn't use as much water. And they were horrible. And that is when Toto started gaining market share. Their technology was different. Now, American manufacturers technology have caught up to the requirements, and they are just as good as the Japanese in that regard.

    shead thanked GreenDesigns
  • shead

    I have a Bosch 300 series now that we got cheap at Lowes. It cleans decently well but doesn’t have the perks that my 800 series had in my last house. It’s short cycle definitely doesn’t clean like the 2+ hour cycle and neither did the short cycle on the 800 series.

  • dadoes

    GreenDesigns,

    Many dishwashers nowadays can vary the pump speed. It may run faster (and noisier) on the 1-Hour or quick cycle, slower (and quieter) on other cycles.

    Dishwashers by-and-large don't pull nearly as much energy as people believe. The angle of redesigning them for less power and water usage is because it's something that can be done, and in consideration of the en-masse effect of all the dishwashers out in the wild.

  • DrB477

    I have two dishwashers. One is a Thermador Sapphire (same parent company as Bosch and apparently nearly identical to higher end Bosch) that came "free" with my range. The other is a Miele Lumen. There isn't much difference in cleaning ability or noise between them. The higher end Miele have a feature where they open slightly at the end of cycle which helps some with drying but I could easily live without it. The rack layout is a little different and I guess I slightly prefer the Miele but its not a big difference. I actual like my old cheap DW grid of poles sticking up better than either, plates are much easier to fit in the expensive DWs but its not as flexible for fitting other stuff.

    With two dishwashers, I don't find the two hour normal cycle a big deal. It's almost always run either after dinner and put away in the morning or after breakfast and put away after work. With one dishwasher, there was nearly always something waiting for the next load, the sink rarely has dishes in it anymore.

    shead thanked DrB477
  • linus2003

    I have what equals to the Miele G 6625 and I live in Europe. It is the best machine I ever had and it replaced a Miele that have had a hard live.

    I use the quick intense wash 58 min 99% of the time and also for very dirty loads and it comes out clean and dry even when I think it cant take that.

    I were thinking of going with a semipro model from Miele due the short wash times as I can not fit 2 machines in my kitchen but as this only takes 1 hour I always have a clean kitchen even when having the house full of guests and doing alot of cooking.

    Can not praise this machine more.

    shead thanked linus2003
  • AboutToGetDusty

    We put in a top of the line Kitchenaid dishwasher in our former home.. It was. The. Worst. So much money we spent fixing it (should have gotten the extended warranty). A year before moving, we gave up and put in a lower model Bosch. We moved to a house...with the same crappy Kitchenaid dishwasher. This one is spewing plastic parts all the time too, and the motor sounds like it's going (it "moos" loudly). We had to replace the motor twice in the last Kitchenaid (which we had for only five years by the way!), but so far this one is holding out. (I'm expecting it to croak any day now).

  • sandk
    One thing I never see mentioned about dishwashers is the presence or absence of a food grinder. The grinders do what you’d expect, whereas machines without grinders have to rely on a filter. The grinders contribute to noise levels and if you have something the grinder can’t handle, you can damage the machine. $$ This is things like a bit of plastic broken off a cup ( yes, first hand experience). Last time I checked Bosch/Thermador and Miele did not use a grinder. No experience with Miele, but excellent results with Bosch/Thermador. I clean the filter if I remember (probably 4 times a year tops) but it’s not high maintenance at all. Much happier with a filter than risking another dead dishwasher for a grinder.
  • Mrs Pete

    You can't even find a non Energy Star model these days except at the very low end $250 one spray arm type, or at the way upper end 5K virtually commercial products. Energy Star is about energy use, and has nothing to do with cleaning ability or anything else.

    So the point is mute.

    So you can look for the largest power rating possible on that. Maytag and Kitchenaid still use 1/3 Hp motors, I think. Most others use 1/5 HP.

    But there is also the technology of the number and placement of the spray nozzles, how they are angled and the number of water outlets, that contributes to a good wash.

    Two pieces of valuable information.

    I am not happy with the cleaning quality of my current dishwasher; it does seem to be worse than machines I've owned in the past, and I haven't been able to say WHY.

  • dadoes

    Enzyme detergents function to dissolve soft food debris during the longer wash cycles that are programmed nowadays. Filters catch bones, fibrous and cellulose material and other bits such as metal and plastic that don't dissolve so well.

    Food grinders in some dishwashers tend to function more like a blender or food processor than as a garbage disposer. The grinder may be just a whirling blade in a collection chamber within the pump sump area, with a filter plate that prevents larger food chunks from passing through to the soil separator until the blade processes them into small-enough bits.

  • a1an

    Hi -


    I have the Miele 220 DW as well as the current consumer model that does the 1 hr wash cycle. Typing off my phone, so I will be short. Do not buy the Miele IMO if you cannot get a 8-10 year warranty on it. I've always had the Platinum line and not great longevity...


    Second, the Intensive 1 hr wash cycle IMO is meant for half load . BUT I feel like the good detergent (Cascade Platinum or Finish Quantum) are really designed best for 2+ Hr cycles. I recommend the normal cycle of *2 hrs* with the good DW tabs above. The 1 Hr cycle - also the water is hotter, so if one is concerned about potential etching, then the 1 Hr is not for you

    BTW, the whole eject door once the cycle is done is amazeballs !

  • Kim G

    You need to use the Miele Dw tabs for the intensive 1 hr cycle as they dissolve quickly unlike the normal supermarket tabs. I know in my 3yr+ miele they recommend powder only if you use their “express” cycle for lightly soiled dishes. Miele is pretty up front about using their quick dissolving tabs and were giving a years worth of Dw tablets when those Dw were introduced.

  • a1an

    Re: the intensive. I've used somat, miele and the Cascade Platinum. No indifference in cleaning ability . The 1 Hr cycle is not meant for a full load though AFAIK. ~half load~ per Miele TS. I don't use it much unless I'm in a pinch. I prefer the lower temperature wash cycles.

  • kmg11

    I've had a so called higher end kitchenaid in the past. Had to replace the heating element at one point and also the control board. Next was a kenmore elite, of which the motor failed. Both lasted around the 4-5 year mark, replacing their parts became cost prohibitive. I asked the last repair guy who was out, what he would buy. His answer was to choose an inexpensive, less bells and whistles type. This way, you won't feel bad when you have to replace it in a couple years. He said if you get five years out of them, you're doing great, as it's not the norm. How sad!

    Unfortunately, regulations of less water usage makes it difficult for dishwashers to do what they're suppose to do, thoroughly clean dishes in a reasonable amount of time. Same with the new washers. You need water to wash dishes and clothes. Miss the old days when appliances did their job and lasted. :(


  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    I know that you aren't considering it, but I will throw in for anyone else reading that I would discourage buying Frigidaire Gallery. Had to repair 3 times in the first 2 years (circuit board failed twice), the rack design is horrible (large gaps that smaller glasses/items will fall through! ) and cleaning is often spotty.

    The only thing that I like about it is the ability to run a top rack only wash which finishes in 45 min instead of the usual 90+ min of a full load.

  • Feathers11

    I have a 6-year-old Thermador (Bosch) that I use daily on the quick (59 min.) cycle with powder detergent (ONLY), and I only fill the soap dispenser halfway. It's still running smoothly and quietly, and cleans well. An appliance guy once told me to only use powder detergents in my DW and washing machines, and only half the amount.

    The biggest hassle was convincing my husband not to pre-rinse the dishes. I had to show him an article on the science behind this to get him to stop.

  • shead

    @raee - I’ve had one Frigidaire dishwasher in my life and I’ll never own another. It was a nightmare from nearly Day 1. The pump finally went out one day and I got the Bosch 800 series.


    @Feathers, I’ve found that powder detergents (both laundry and DW) are the only way to go.

  • AboutToGetDusty

    Sandk - yes! It was the grinder that was the culprit. Even though we rinsed dishes, we had a few glasses break on their own...and little pieces would pass through the grinder and ruin the motor. :-(

  • Lawrence Sprowls

    Consumer Reports tested dishwashers and all Bosch models did well even though prices varied dramatically. IMO the best deals appear to be the Bosch 100 Series SHXM4AY55N and Bosch 100 Series SHEM3AY55N at $674 and $539, respectively (Home Depot). Best detergent: Cascade Complete ActionPacs.

  • a1an

    Detergent is one of those YMMV. What may work well here, go 2-3 towns over, may be entirely different IMO. Water plays a huge role in any soap and ones experience

  • fauguy

    I went with a Miele in 2010 and used it every night. After 8 years of use, in Jan 2018 the pump motor went out and would of cost $700 part + labor to fix.

    I looked at newer Miele, Asko, and Bosch, and due to a sale ended up with the Miele G6625SCU. This new model has a variable speed pump which means different wash cycles have different pressure.

    If I do the Normal or the China Crystal, the unit is the quietest as the water pressure isn't too loud. The next step is the Pots/Pans and the Sani Wash, as those two use higher water pressure and is a bit louder. Lastly, the Quick Intensive Wash at 1 hour uses the highest level of water pressure, so it is the loudest, but then again is done in an hour.


    I have used all the modes, and most of the time use the Pots/Pans (3:30) or Sani Wash (2:30) cycle since it is run at night and not in a hurry to be done. Over the Holidays I used the China Crystal mode a few times for lower temps with Christmas dishes. The Normal mode I don't really use, since it doesn't allow me to add the options of extra final rinse or extended drying time.


    I would suggest that if you need two units and are going to use a custom cabinet panel, the Miele G6785SCVi would be the way to go as it has all the features you want, and gives up the higher-priced models with LED lights and Knock-to-Open.

  • delray33483

    you might want to make one the units an actual commercial dish washer and the other a regular DW. If you have enough dishware volume to support 2 DWs, having a high speed one might be a worthwhile idea.


    usually the commercial dish is configured just for dishes or glassware - not pots and pans, or mixing bowls etc

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