I think this is called having a "messy kitchen" and I agree it's odd and wasteful. I know someone who wants to do this at their house. I guess it's one way to hide the mess when you have an open layout but it's potentially less expensive to just build some walls...

I don’t think the idea of a “secret kitchen” is new, it’s just more commonly referred to as a butler’s pantry. Personally, I prefer an open kitchen because, even though it can get messy during meal prep, we’re building for every day use, not occasional gatherings. And I don’t need to hide from my own mess! That being said, I’m a Butler’s pantry/second kitchen would be beneficial for other cooking styles.

We started with a very open floor plan, but I've started to tweak it and make the kitchen a bit more separated from the living/dining area. I don't entertain, so it's not really about that. There are a number of little reasons, from my youngest child's sound sensitivity to a desire to be able to more easily switch floorings, that tweaking the floorplan makes sense.

This is a trend in my area. Personally, I want a kitchen I can work in, not one for show. We entertain a good amount, and I like to be able to talk to my guests while I’m making dinner for them.

Not really a new thing. You also see this a lot in homes designed by Chinese families here in the Los Angeles area. They will have a very small workhorse kitchen called a Wok Kitchen in a small enclosed room and then the pretty larger kitchen.

Here is an example:
https://rasamalaysia.com/building-an-asian-wok-kitchen/

I do it all the time with Asian or Indian families. Its’s known as Spice Kitchen, Grease Kitchen, Wok Kitchen, or Work Kitchen. It’s is very much a thing. And it’s invading “standard” kitchens too as people discover how hard it is to keep pristine white cabinets pristine when they are regularly used.

In concept, it's a good idea, but does the owner of an average-sized house have the room to spare? I don't. Where I do have extra room is the basement, but then I'd have to trudge everything up and down the stairs, so not practical. Although I am old enough to remember when plenty of houses had full kitchens in the basement because no one had air conditioning and people would spend their time down there because it was so much cooler. Actually, I don't remember my grandmother *ever* cooking a meal in her upstairs kitchen, she just preferred to do it in the basement LOL!

I like the idea of a Secret house. With my Secret Spouse.
Scratch that, maintaining one is enough.

I blame Martha Stewart for all this open-concept kitchen nonsense. We've all seen Martha preparing amazing food while visiting with her gorgeous guests. Guess what? It doesn't really work very well! First of all, if the food is to be edible, one needs to give a degree of concentration to its preparation. Even if not following a recipe, an omelet can get overcooked, a sauce scorched - you name it. The preparation of food for dinner or a party should be ones first priority, not being a charming and engaging hostess.

As for two kitchens - well, it's one more kitchen to clean and more expense to build. Have an enclosed kitchen. Have a really good vent hood over the stove. When entertaining, plan ahead and have much of the preparation done before the guests arrive.

As for the butler's pantry; it was never a scullery where all the pots/pans were washed. A butler's pantry was a room between the DR and kitchen (and often also opened into the entrance hall as well) where food from the kitchen was brought to be served from, and the dishes/glassware that were hand washed anyway were kept in this room and washed afterwards. If there was entertaining with drinks and hors d'oeuvres being passed, then they came from this room and trays were replenished there as well.

Stately homes also had a scullery where all the pots and pans were washed. It was off the kitchen which was for food preparation. Since all meals were served in the DR, the dishes would have been washed in the butler's pantry. Butler's pantries often had "silver rooms" in grand houses, where all the household silver was kept safe and under lock and key, the butler always the one who held the key and who kept the silver polished.

Dove and Thor

LOL!

There are a few people here that have a Butler's Pantry 'spare' kitchen as their workhorse kitchen. I think if one has the room and can afford it, I've no issue with it. To each their own. We have neither the room nor the extra $ for it.

I used to be one of the 'not a fan of open concept kitchen's people'... our old kitchen was only semi-open, and I liked the idea of a separate space for cooking. However, our new kitchen (currently in progress) was designed here on GW, and it's open concept. Frankly it meets our personal needs far better. Walking into the kitchen (with groceries, late night snack visits, anytime trips) is much easier. We rarely entertain, but now with the open concept, we look forward to entertaining. It's a personal decision and preference... I prefer to be a part of the crowd, even while cooking, and if anyone is put off by the prepping and cooking of food, perhaps they shouldn't come to our home for meal gatherings : ) Regarding 'messes', put large pots and pans in the sink or DW when done... and I am never concerned with anyone seeing cooking utensils which have been used. DH and I don't do formal entertaining, and we want our guests (and ourselves) to be a part of the full experience - conversation, and to feel comfortable, at home, and casual. We both far more enjoy gatherings where the kitchen is open to graze, to converse, to refill our own drinks, and also be able to move easily to seating/dining areas inside and out. But that is our preference. I realize many prefer a more formal atmosphere, with separate kitchen and separate dining area. I do cook quite a lot.

I have no need for an open kitchen. If I am cooking for guests, the bulk of the work is all done ahead of time. My kitchen is relatively small, but people can hang out with me or lend a hand as I garnish dishes or finish assembling hors d'oeuvres. I wish we could go back to the days of having a kitchen table- that would be lovely. But the kitchen as centerpiece of the house does not work for me either. Even when I am making a meal from scratch, unless it's for guests and particularly elaborate, I am not in the kitchen, hands on, for more than one hour for dinner- and it's usually less. For washing up, I have two dishwashers- all the pots, pans and bowls used for prepping go into one machine before dinner hits the table and the dishes, etc from the meal go into the second one after the meal.

Our new kitchen is closed, as our old one was, but we have so much more space because we got rid of the peninsula that bisected the room (with no cabinets or anything on the far side of the kitchen - so weird). We had dinner guests last night - 2 parents and 2 kids who we do regular dinners with. I remarked as I was cooking, my son was baking, and everyone else was standing around talking, how remarkable it was that we could all be in the kitchen at the same time and not be in each other's way. In our old kitchen, there was NO WHERE a person could stand and not be in the way. My son (still getting used to the layout) also kept dashing over to my side of the kitchen for things that were at the baking end. It was pretty funny. I'm like "you don't even need to come over here, you have your own measuring spoons and whisks over there! It's all planned out!"

Now, I say this as someone who had a REALLY bad "before" kitchen, and whose "after" kitchen is way smaller than a lot of the people on here. No space for a second kitchen, or even an island, but I am just so happy with the increased functionality. It's all relative.

Also to Holly (which is my name too) - one reason we didn't open our kitchen up is kids and noise as well. My son needs quiet and calm when he's doing homework at the dining room table, and I love being able to close the kitchen doors so he can have it.

I plan on never living in a house large enough for two kitchens. For me it would be a complete waste of space/materials/money. I'd rather spend the $100k a second kitchen would cost on moving a quarter mile closer to the beach.

I also disagree that it is more important to cook good food than be an engaging hostess. I don't go to a party to see the food. I go to see the host/hostess.

"I wish we could go back to the days of having a kitchen table- that would be lovely."

Hey! I have a kitchen table -- can't imagine not having one.

We have a relatively small 12x12 kitchen with (horror!) 4 walls. I leave myself very little actual cooking to do after guests arrive, rather I prepare as much as possible ahead and plan menus that don't require the bulk of prep/cooking to be done while guests are present, but while I'm doing the little I'm doing, people wander in and out talking to me, putting together the dish that they may have brought and asking if I need help. I'm not at all isolated! As a matter of fact, sometimes I could use a bit more alone time in there than I usually get. And I love not looking at pots/pans/utensils waiting to be cleaned up. Yes sometimes I can clean up before eating, but many things have to be served/eaten immediately. I just think that it is a pretentious waste of money to have hugely expensive professional appliances in a kitchen that is never used. I LOVE my closed off little kitchen!

It doesn't have to be either / or.

My kitchen is open to the family room, but only just partly visible from the dining room, and not at all from the living room, or god-forbid from the entry.

Best of all worlds!

When I had a big greatroom that encompassed kitchen, dining and family room, I was grateful for a large laundry room. I had a huge wash up sink and plenty of counter space for a microwave, prepping and clean up. There was a small fridge. Anything messy or dirty went right in the laundry room. Desserts were in there til they were served. Extra food and refills were kept in there. I still used the kitchen to cook and serve, but all the mess I sent to the laundry room and closed the door!
It also helped keep guests out of my kitchen. Some people welcome help with clean up but I don’t. I’d rather spend time after dinner with my guests, not packing up leftovers and scrubbing pots. I’ll do all that after the party.

We rarely use the dining table except for guests at holidays. It's 40' away from the sink at the opposite end of the open plan space. No one sees that far with the task lighting dimmed. But it's not difficult to do a lot of the non dish cleanup as you go.

I've seen the "secret kitchen" in a few Parade Homes. They are usually small, with no window and have plain looking laminate counters. Why would anyone wish to cook in such a small, dark space? I figured it was a place to hide the boxes from the caterer:) With open plan homes, the kitchen needs to be clean for the whole space to look nice - maybe that is the point.

I have also noticed that many people have a number of small appliances. I've told my family that outside of a toaster and rice cooker (wish I had a place to store it - but it is used frequently), I don't want any. One designer at a Parade Home suggested the secret kitchen was a place for small appliances - it had 16 outlets:) I guess I can see hiding them away, but first ask - do I need it? How often will I use it - does it need to be on the counter? We are a society that loves our gadgets.

I have an older home - small but pretty kitchen with four walls - plenty of light. I very much like it that way, and enjoy cooking in it.

2 kitchens...I would find a way to mess up both ;))

To all of the people aghast at the extravagance of two kitchens: Do you have a basement kitchen? It’s not that uncommon.

Hillside - I have a basement kitchenette (put together for about $1000 - plumbing and electrical were already present). However, I don't use it to keep the main kitchen clean or hide my appliances. Mostly it is used and maintained by my young adult children who have semi - independent lives - rather like having an apartment in the basement.

We remodeled about 9 months ago and expanded and opened up our kitchen and absolutely love it. Wouldn’t go back for anything. It is nice for guests to be able to sit at the island or dining table to chat rather than having to hover in the kitchen, but for us the real benefit is in our everyday lives. Besides just socializing while we cook we can empty the dishwasher, hand wash pans, get the cat and dog food, clean the kitchen, etc and still carry on a conversation with other family members. If someone wants a drink there is no interruption of conversation while the person goes and gets one. We aren’t the neatest and so we do have to work to keep this space clean, and it only looks like a “show kitchen” just before company comes over :-), but I still wouldn’t go back to our closed off kitchen. I also wouldn’t want a second kitchen to secretly cook in and have never seen the use in a basement kitchen unless you routinely cook for lots of people. My grandmother did have a basement stove for holidays, though not a full kitchen, and the stove wasn’t used most days.

People who preserve food often have a 'summer kitchen'. When they remodel they move the old stove and cupboards to the garage so they don't steam up the house with canning. Moving the old set to the basement for guests (2nd fridge, pantry area) or an Air BnB is also pretty common. I put these in a different category from spending $100k so people don't think you cook in your kitchen.

I find that people usually do things for a reason. Whether its one we would agree with, or think is clever -- well, that's a different train of thought.

For folks that cook a lot with high heat (wok), or lots of curry -- a wok kitchen is very smart. It is a confined space and thus helps contain the cooking odors, sparing the house and making clean up easier. It's amazing how curry and other pungent spices can permeate surfaces and impart a pretty lasting odor otherwise.

For folks who feel strongly about appearances -- having a show kitchen and one to cook (or hide caterer's boxes, as someone suggested) -- well, great for them and if that improves their enjoyment of their home -- that's not something I can afford (or perhaps would choose) for myself -- but more power to them.

It is very interesting to watch trends, but ultimately I think most people are best served by doing what suits their own situation (and having the confidence to do so).

A relative of mine has a butlers pantry, or second kitchen, rather large, it houses a huge side by side freezer, sink, cabinets, but no cooking appliances. It makes sense for them because they entertain large groups of friends & relatives at least once a week & their house is very large.

i prefer an open kitchen since everyone gravitates to my kitchen while I’m doing last minute prep. Not everything can be preppEd ahead of time. If there’s a little mess visible no one notices it ( or comments on it anyway ).

This is entirely personal and really dependant on the style of the house and the people who live in it. I have seen the second kitchen, but only as a wet kitchen and a dry kitchen. As form follows function, it’s more of a niche request to accommodate certain styles of cooking, not something I think will become widespread in this area.

Side note, I am in a NY suburb and in this area a butler’s pantry is a staging area between the kitchen and dining room. I’ve never designed, or thought of it as a second kitchen.

I heard some years ago that Italians like to have a basement kitchen, in addition to a first floor kitchen. Is that true? It sounded so odd to me at the time, but I have since met first generation Italians who said they grew up with basement kitchens. I wonder if that's something they carried over from Italy or if there is still a reason for it in the US.

My old neighbors added a small almost-kitchen in their basement (the house wasn't that big) just for when they had the whole family over. Second oven, sink, fridge, a little storage, but no cooktop (since usually you need to monitor what's on the burner). Come to think of it, she was Italian I think.

A lot of people around here have second fridges/freezers. An oven in the basement sounds like a real pain to go up and down the stairs (although imagining that scenario through my own lens, our basement stairs would not meet today's code). Well, and our basement is not finished in any way. An interesting thought!

it’s just more commonly referred to as a butler’s pantry.

No, a butler's pantry is for storage of dishware and "staging" (perhaps of drinks or dessert); one doesn't cook in a butler's pantry.

Maybe a scullery.

Not really a new thing. You also see this a lot in homes designed by Chinese families here in the Los Angeles area.

I've heard this called a "spice kitchen" because the smell of the spices and cooking is contained to the small work room.

In concept, it's a good idea, but does the owner of an average-sized house
have the room to spare?

And here we have the problem for those of us who live in the real world!

I like the idea of a Secret house. With my Secret Spouse.

Now you've got me thinking of Secret Squirrel.

I blame Martha Stewart for all this open-concept kitchen nonsense. We've
all seen Martha preparing amazing food while visiting with her gorgeous
guests.

Eh, I neither like or dislike Martha Stewart, but I'm not sure Open Concept was her baby.

Regardless, I think it'd be smart to think through EXACTLY HOW you want your kitchen to function -- then design your room to suit yourself. You're unlikely to happen upon solid function simply by looking at pretty pictures and following trends.

For example, here's a bit of my kitchen function /how I would like to accommodate those needs:

- I like to keep a pretty good supply of food on hand /I am including a large pantry that can hold (well organized) basic foods, including my home-canned jars.

- I have every kitchen gadget and appliance known to man /I will have an Appliance Tower on the edge of the kitchen, and some seldom-used items (for example, the punchbowl) will be stored on the top shelves of the pantry. The pantry will also include a pegboard for gadgets and cooking tools.

- Most nights (when it's just us), I cook, and we serve our plates (and clean up) from the stove /Serving dishes can be stored in less convenient locations, but I want my Pyrex leftover dishes next to the stove.

- When we have people over, we tend to do put out food buffet-style /we have thought out three adaptable serving areas in our kitchen ... one for main dishes, one for drinks, one for desserts ... so we'll be set for groups.

Get the idea? How do YOU want YOUR kitchen to function?

I am never concerned with anyone seeing cooking utensils which have been used.

I'm with you. How do you think that delicious meal was prepared? Not out of thin air!

I also disagree that it is more important to cook good food than be an engaging hostess. I don't go to a party to see the food. I go to see the host/hostess.

I'm with you. Aim to do both.

"I wish we could go back to the days of having a kitchen table- that would be lovely.

No, I have no love of a kitchen table (as a place for cooking). I'd rather have an island or a peninsula, which provides workspace AND storage. And no reaching across the backs of chairs.

I live in an area where hardly anybody cooks because they're too busy with work and shuttling the kids to activities --- pretty much all the meals are eaten out. Yet, the kitchens have gotten bigger and bigger with 48" trophy ranges, pizza ovens, etc. Only the caterers use the kitchen every now and then.

nosoccermom, you've been inside all these homes and know for a fact that they hardly ever cook?

Other than the families I personally know well , I would have no idea how other families in my area are living their lives. The ones I know, or knew over the years, aren't eating out all the time.

I can read statistics, which confirm statements 1 and 2. Statement 3, I admit, is hyperbolic but still based on my experience visiting homes of people in that demographics.

Adding some interesting references about trophy kitchens, eating/ordering out, kitchen size;

https://gradfoodstudies.org/2016/06/30/trophy-kitchen/

https://foodondemandnews.com/ubs-lays-out-potential-food-on-demand-futures/

https://www.thespruce.com/average-kitchen-size-1822119

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-are-eating-out-more-because-of-the-strong-economy-and-theyre-paying-a-premium-2018-09-13

https://www.statista.com/topics/1957/eating-out-behavior-in-the-us/

My area is about 30% over national average.

It’s really too bad because eating out ( I do a few times a week ) isn’t that healthy. Yes, many restaurants have relatively healthier options but few avail themselves. When asked if you want the “steamed vegetables “ or the “fries” guess which is usually selected. Talk to anyone in the food industry & they’ll confirm that. Restaurant food, even the higher end ones, is most often higher in sodium, fat, & processed ingredients. Many people ( I see it in my area ) are just too lazy or disorganized to plan ahead. When I was working full time I prepared my meals for most of the week on weekends. Much healthier & cheaper too.

I have only anecdotal evidence, but the need to ferry children around after school absolutely crushes my peers' ability and desire to cook. The prepared foods section from WFM is the default cook for my friends.

“Desire” is the operative word here. I’ve noticed that they have plenty of time to spend on their devices ( iPhone, iPad, etc. ). In my experience anyway... one example, a single woman, no children, I know, has limited working hours ( 9 to 3:00 ) either picks up fast food or dines out every day for both lunch & dinner. She told me that it’s just too much trouble to cook. Yet she complains about how much of her $ is spent on food.

I just made a stew with cabbage and stunk up the whole house! I wish I had a Spice Kitchen!

Well my country relatives butchered animals they had hunted in the basement and it had a fridge and sink.

They didn't want the kids to see and didn't want to mess up their main kitchen.

I guess that's kind of the same thing.

I wonder if all the farmhouse style kitchens should have a butchering kitchen like a real farm?

* That was also where they kept their gun safe, out of view and reach of children.