I'm not getting a good sense of the space you're working with based on your first photo. Usually, in the back yard, it takes seeing a view looking outward from the back of the house, and another view looking back at the house from some outward position, in order to grasp the space. Each inward and outbound view must be broad, comprised of several slightly overlapping photos that span the yard from far left to far right.

I also don't understand your plan in picture #3. What are spaces marked 1, 2, or 3?

numbers were levels with 1 being the current level of the under deck patio. I had originally thought up to 4 levels 0-3 but that felt complicated. I think it would be nice to have the fire pit area to be on a step down but the rest would just be just be what makes sense for the natural grade. Does that help?

I think it would be more important at this point to refine general goals than it would be to define specific solutions. The patio, or patio system, is going to be generally near the house. The grade is not all that difficult. It will be fairly easy to reconcile how things fit with it when their arrangement and traffic patterns are figured out. Where is screening and how intense is it? How near the back door does the grill need to be for convenience sake? How much square footage do you need for the patio? What activities and for how many people? Is there a need for additional covered patio space? Every desire must be reconciled against a budget. (Grading and retaining walls can be expensive, so it won't be good to think unrealistically about the hardscape.) What is the "Kids" area comprised of? Do we want to be seeing all the neighbor's property beyond the area marked undefined? Should the back yard feel private, or be open to the neighboring yards? Etc., etc. Answering these questions, and any more you can think of, will make solving functional issues easier.

Thanks for the questions. We like the size of our current patio for a seating group. We want two more areas of patio. One for dining which will need to accommodate a 8' circle to account for current table and chairs. we would like an additional lounge area uncovered that would have room for a portable fire bowl. Location of grill is good point. My husband likes that the grill is currently under cover, so an umbrella over the grill and possibly an umbrella over the table could be desired for additional cover, but nothing more permanent than that is needed. 350-400 SQ feet is what I am currently thinking but we might be able to scale back to 300.

Kids are currently 4 and 8. Right now we are thinking a 5' tall climbing dome, or some other portable play structure. We would also consider a shed that could be used as an art shed or hangout for when kids are older or gone.

Fencing is a concern. Deer is a problem and we would like to add a gate to the back fence as there is trail access. One side fence is ours and the other is not. We need to talk to neighbors before deciding on type of fence. Privacy currently is not an issue, but would be nice if we could swing it. a tall semi open deer fence is something we are considering.

In the idea of simplifying, if the new patio we're all on level would it be easier to start with a step down from the existing patio and then level to grass, or level from patio and then a step down to grass.

How big is the current dining table? The recommended minimum patio size to accomodate a 48" round table (and chairs) is 10'6".

Hmm current table is 3.5' I was allowing for 8' in the below drawings. Patio is either 12' from current or 10' from current. If square it would be 450 sq ft or 390 sq ft. All one level. Area between house and patio would be planting bed now. Orange squares in drawing are current brick pillars, peach is table, red is firepit Door from house is where it says conc patio. I am liking the much simpler design. Husband likes the rounded edges better than square. Would still need to figure out whether the step down is between existing and new patio or new patio and grass. Everything else in the drawing above would roughly be the same.

Doodling...