dnagardens

Honorine de Brabant, Ferdinand Prichard or neither

Dave6aMO
May 27, 2019

I would like add a striped rose to the garden but one that would still associate well with other OGRs and Austin’s. The one that interests me the most is Honorine de Brabant but Ferdinand Prichard is another option. Would you suggest one over the other based on your experience or should I avoid them both? I would prefer one that provides some repeat - even if just in the fall.

Comments (33)

  • Krista_5NY

    I don't grow Vick's Caprice or Marbree, but thought I'd mention them as they have lovely colors.

    Marbree is mottled, not striped. High Country Roses sells it.

    Antique Rose Emporium sells Vick's Caprice.

    Vick's Caprice on Helpmefind

    Marbree

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  • Deborah KYzone6

    Hey there. I planted both of these roses last May, along with; Variegata Di Bologna, Rosa Mundi and Bourbon Queen. Yes, I went stripe crazy. Only one bloom from HDB last fall. All grew like crazy and bloomed beautifully this spring. I will try to remember to follow up regarding rebloom and any disease issues. I am hoping someone will respond with more experience.

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  • AquaEyes 7a NJ

    If you go with 'Honorine de Brabant', know that it doesn't repeat as much or as willingly in Autumn as some of the other long-caned Bourbons. Mine got to be large, and needed a little support, but offered only a handful of Autumn blooms and only once it got large. Then, the following year, I tried something -- after the first flush, I pruned it back by almost half, with the aim of getting it to be more self-supporting. I also threw some more Espoma Garden Tone fertilizer at it, and it responded by pushing a lot of growth which then finished with a better Autumn flush. Unfortunately, something unrelated caused its death the following year, so I can't report if the treatment I gave it would reliably produce repeat. Other people say theirs repeats easily, so perhaps what I did was just a coincidence, and it simply needed to mature.


    I had 'Ferdinand Pichard' briefly but the plant I got just seemed to limp along. I don't fault the cultivar -- I think I just got a dud-plant. In any case, I can't report much about that rose.


    You may also wish to try 'Careless Love' -- the striped sport of the 'Radiance' Hybrid Tea clan. It certainly has an old look to its rounded blooms. And if you can find a spot protected enough for a Tea, look at 'Rainbow', which is probably the correct name for the found-rose "Moser Pink Striped" -- look for it under either name.


    There are also striped Gallicas, but they don't offer the repeat you desire.


    :-)


    ~Christopher

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  • Krista_5NY

    While browsing the Palatine Roses website, I was reminded of Panachee de Lyon. It has pink and red stripes.

    Panachee de Lyon on Helpmefind

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  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

    I've always had the impression from what I've read about Honorine de Brabant that the repeat is not stellar and that it tends to put out leaves at the expense of flowers.

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  • K S 8b Seattle

    Dave, the jury is out on this. In the interest of science, I suggest you get two or three striped OGRs and come back to let us know which repeats best. ;)

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  • Dave6aMO

    Thank you all for your input and suggestions! Krista, I have just begun looking into these other options and really like Vick’s Caprice or Panachee de Lyon - I have heard of VC but never really looked into it. Both have that unique flare without being too loud. More fun research to do!

    How fun Deborah - you really did go all out! VdB has really interested me but heard it does not repeat for many and so that is the only reason I have not purchased it. It sounds like HdB may be similar in that respect. I am not opposed to a once bloomer but would like something remonant in this particular spot. Rosa Mundi is still on my list for another section of my garden. I will be interested to hear how they continue to do for you.

    Christopher - I’m sorry you lost HdB and FP ended up being a dud. Thanks for sharing your experience and suggestion for Careless Love. This is another I had not heard of. If it is more of a “shrubby” HT, it may work just great.

    Ingrid - that’s what I was afraid of. If it also had a decent fall flush, I wouldn’t hesitate getting it but I’m not sure now.

  • bellegallica9a

    Marbrée is an interesting rose, the name means marbled, and one not often mentioned on the forum. One of the few "true" Portlands left though one commenter on HMF says it's "more like a reblooming Gallica than a Damask"--it's the only spotted Portland that I know of. It's unique appearance means it's not likely to be mistaken or mislabeled as anything else.


    Becoming very rare here. Before High Country Roses started offering it again, the only U.S. vendor listed was Rogue Valley who has not had it in stock in a LONG time. I think it will disappear in the U.S. eventually.

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  • Dave6aMO

    My wife may roll her eyes at the “in the interest of science” reasoning for purchasing more roses but I like it, KS! I think that’s the direction I’m heading. I think I will get different varieties from Deborah and we can share notes :)

  • jerijen

    I just re-aquired 'Marbree' thanks to the generosity of a friend. But I did love 'Ferdinand Pichard,' and would grow it again.

    I also really love 'Rainbow' -- though it is not a strong grower. Beautiful blooms, though:

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  • portlandmysteryrose

    Oh, Dave. You're gardening in my aesthetic territory! Striped OGRs. Oo la la! I have grown both HdB and FP and enjoyed them immensely. Until a couple of years ago, I didn't have either at this house and tried to get both from ARE. ARE accidentally sent me 2 of Honorine de Brabant. C'est la vie! N'est-ce pas? I'll post photos of young HdB's lovely buds/early blooms after my phone recharges. I am no longer ordering roses from RRD areas, and I'm not swapping with anyone from a RRD area, so I'm planning to knock on my currently unknown neighbors' door and ask to swap for cuttings of the FP I spotted growing in their parking strip. I'm on a quest for FP!

    Here are my thoughts on both HdB and FP.

    1. Health: In my area, FP is much healthier, but HdB is very doable. In my experience, HdB is more prone to blackspot. Also maybe mildew? These diseases vary by region, of course, so please take the feedback of those in MO over mine.

    2. Scent: Two different but lovely scents. FP's scent is a bit stronger, but both hit the mark for me. Bourbon vs HP. You decide.

    3. Habit: HdB is a climber or large wall shrub, lax, luxurious, very Bourbon. FP is one of those stiffer, upright HPs that blooms in clusters toward the tops of the canes. If space is tight, HdB makes a good climber or arch rose. FP can fairly easily squeeze into narrow places. HdB blends well with other Bourbons, Teas, Chinas, Austins, arching OGRs. FP is lovely among supported or more structural Gallicas, Damasks and Albas plus Portlands, other HPs and more upright Austins.

    4. Color: HdB's color is softer, muted, watercolor stripes that blend well with the delicately colored nodding heads of Teas. FP is bolder and plays well with mad Gallicas and creates a striking companion for both bright and contrasting pale, solid-colored Damasks, Portlands and Albas.

    5. FP foliage is just slightly coarser and, as Jeri says, quilted. It's interesting, unique and identifiable. HdB has slightly wavy, elegant foliage that drapes nicely along the canes.

    6. Repeat: In Portland, with maturity, both gave me repeat in the fall. HdB also gave me the odd scattered summer blooms. (Along the lines of Zepherine Drouhin here.) I think FP, eventually, gave me a couple of summer ones as well. (My memory is fading fast these days. I'm always trying to hold in my head everything for my 8-year-old daughter and for myself.) The spring show really is the big event for both HdB and FP. I think it's the heat in high summer that shuts down the bloom in both of these OGRs. Cooler summers or summer months = more blooms.

    Does that help at all?

    Something else you might research: Madame Driout. Mine is new and young, but I'm already impressed with this striped, climbing Tea. Yes, a STRIPED TEA! She's probably going to get some blackspot here, but time will tell how badly. Maybe others on the forum can provide more info. I got mine from ARE. MD is on HMF, so you might want to check her out. The blooms are large and pale rosy pink speckled and striped with a color in the bluish red-dark pink range. Truly a striking and gorgeous variety! MD has a rep for blooming in flushes. Time will tell.

    Carol

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  • Dave6aMO

    Thank you, bellegallica and Jeri! I think I’m going to go ahead and get Ferdinand Prichard. Marbree is very special and I need to add this one to my OGR section. I’m excited to see that it is supposedly hardy to zone 4. Rainbow is beautiful. It’d probably be pushing it to grow it in my zone, especially if it is a weak grower but it is great.

  • portlandmysteryrose

    KS, ha, ha! Get two or three. You are a wicked, enabling rosarian! :-) Carol

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  • Dave6aMO

    Carol, I’m sorry I missed your response earlier since we cross posted. Thanks for the detailed info! Please do show pics of HdB when you can. Mme Driout looks amazing - another I had never heard of. I don’t know if I could successfully grow her here. Please post pics of her as well as she blooms and matures. Hopefully FP won’t be too strong of a statement in this area but looking forward to this and trying some other “special” roses out.

  • portlandmysteryrose

    No worries at all, Dave! It still amazes me that we're all holding rose conversations that traverse the country and wrap around the planet. Cross posting is a minor inconvenience.

    I think you're going to enjoy FP! He's been a close personal friend for over two decades, and there are good reasons why he's remained in commerce for almost a century! I was suffering while trying to choose between HdB and FP, so I ordered both! (Straight out of KS's suggestion book.) The only reason I don't currently have FP is because ARE made an error, one of only a couple in all the years I've ordered from that wonderful nursery.

    I'll post a few photos of Honorine de Brabant below so you can check her out. Who knows? Maybe KS' suggestion will grow on you, and you'll be seduced into growing HdB "for comparison's sake." :-) And if you don't currently grow the following Gallicas, and Gallicas grow well in your region, I highly recommend Camaieux (Camayeux) and Rosa Mundi! Deborah in KY posted lovely photos of RM on my Gallica Season thread, and I'm sure someone will post some of Camaieux as soon as blooms make their annual appearance. My Camaieux is budded up but not budging yet.

    Carol


    Honorine de Brabant













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  • K S 8b Seattle

    If you are adding some stripey Gallicas, don't forget Georges Vibert!

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  • portlandmysteryrose

    Just for fun, here's the striped and speckled climbing Tea, Madame Driout (ARE). Carol





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  • Deborah KYzone6

    Carol, I love that tea. What a charming bloom. I wonder if it would make it in my zone...hmm.

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  • portlandmysteryrose

    Deborah, I think HMF says 6b. It looks like you could convince yourself of success! :-) Carol

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  • Dave6aMO

    Thanks, Carol, for the pics of HdB and Mme Driout! Fantastic!

  • portlandmysteryrose

    You're very welcome, Dave! Don't forget to post photos of your FP when the time comes. Carol

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  • seil zone 6b MI

    I only have Honorine and I love her. Gets about 4x4 in size here and in most years is pretty cane hardy for me. It does ball a little in very high humidities. It also black spots some. But that delicate beauty and fragrance are wonderful/



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  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

    Wow, Seil, that's amazing that Honorine is mostly cane hardy for you. I tried both her and Ferdinand several times in my protected virtual zone 6 and neither even attempted to survive my winters. Marbree has been totally cane hardy and I can believe it would survive zone 4 too. I haven't noticed it repeating yet but I think it's just coming up to its fourth year. Vick's Caprice will overwinter in my protected areas, so I just might have to try Madame Driot given those luscious photos. For zone 6b it might be worth a try in my tea bed.

    Cynthia

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  • bellegallica9a

    So many times I've been on the verge of ordering Honorine de Brabant then would read again about how it becomes a bloomless giant in warm climates, and I would pass on. But those pictures....

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  • seil zone 6b MI

    I don't know what to say, Cynthia. I bought my HdB in 2006 as a body bag from Home Depot. It started out in a pot for a couple years but got too big so I planted it out in the street bed. That bed gets the brunt of the prevailing west winds all winter and it's still kicking. The last polar winter as well as this one I did have to prune it way back but it's already 2 feet high this spring. I will say its best bloom is in the spring but it does rebloom a couple of times later in the season. Not a lot but a few blooms here and there.

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  • Krista_5NY

    Stanwell Perpetual sometimes has subtle mottling to the blooms, which adds to its charm. It gets some morning shade which helps to preserve the pink shading. Repeat bloom is almost continuous, with scattered blooms produced all season long.

    It has a beautiful sweet fragrance.

    Greenmantle Nursery sells it under the Special Shrubs category.

    (Rogue Valley Roses sells it, but is currently out of stock.)










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  • Oana Belgium, 8b

    Hi, I inherited two HdB from the previous owners and I was wondering if anyone has any experience pegging them. This summer they bloomed continuously but with very few flowers on the tops of their long canes so I’m looking into creative solutions for next year. Also they are planted in a spot with 10cm of black soil and full clay underneath with brick pieces probably left over from when the house was built 30 years ago.

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  • AquaEyes 7a NJ

    In case anyone was interested, another source for 'Stanwell Perpetual' is High Country Roses. I got one for the cemetery from there, and it was a good size and grew rather quickly.


    :-)


    ~Christopher

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  • Dave6aMO

    Krista, I love SP! I had wanted to grow it for a while and finally received a great 2 gallon plant from Greenmantle this past spring. Thanks for sharing the pics.

    Oana, I hope you can get an answer to your question about HdB. You’ll have to share what you ultimately decide to do and pics of HdB next year.

    I ended up adding Centifolia Variegata to my order at Palatine. I look forward to adding another unique OGR to the garden.

  • L G

    I don't know if you have access to Delbard roses and whether you are willing to consider a modern rose with an old rose shape but I got Julie Andrieu (DELstrirocrem) about two months ago after my Candice succumbed and she is lovely! I already had two flushes in the time I had her. Very early days but so far a healthy plant and sweet fragrance. The attached picture is not mine but from the internet (it is this picture that made me get her)




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  • Dave6aMO

    Amazing LG! I have noted it on other posts but I very much hope Julie Andrieu becomes available in the US. More and more Delbard roses are and so I am hopeful!

  • jerijen

    'Ferdinand Pichard' was great here in my part of SoCal -- AND it is behind the whole line of Tom Carruth's striped roses.


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  • Dave6aMO

    That’s great to hear, Jeri. FP put on good growth for only being in the ground only part of the season and was surprised how healthy it was. I was hoping to see one bloom this year but deer managed to prune it a couple of times. I’m definitely looking forward to it next season.

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