Not from me.

Wow, after all the delays, I'm surprised it's finally out.

I deleted my comment. It was not directed at you Suzanne. And it was not actually fair to the OP. I was wrong.

No worries.

I was concerned I would not be ready in time for my house.

I would love to hear about your experiences. It is on our short list after checking it out at their Scottsdale showroom.

I am about a week from moving in. I will post after using it.

We went to 2 classes at the Scottsdale Showroom. One was a general overview of the appliances and the other in the CSO. Definitely go, great food and the Chef was spectacular.

I too am very interested in someone's actual experience. The thing that bothers me is the length of time it takes to wash. I had a hard time figuring out if there is a short cycle that actually works.

They apparently have one in the local showroom finally but I haven't had time to have a look. I'm also

hoping the tines are not so tight and configured in such an odd way that my dishes don't fit. (ie: like my Bosch)

Inga

Cove DW2450 dishwasher with 5-year warranty $2099

Cove DW2450WS dishwasher with 5-year warranty $2199

IKEA RENLIG 002.889.21 dishwasher with 5-year warranty $379

Dish washer guaranteed to work for 5 years $31.25

You do realize that these things are not exactly alike? And the difference isn't just the price alone?

You can argue whether $2000+ is justified. But this is an appliance that gets used every day in many households. Sometimes even more than once. It can absolutely make sense to find something that works better.

If a normal life-expectancy for a dishwasher is assumed to be on the order of 8-10 years, then even for such an expensive appliance the amortized cost per cycle is only around $0.50-0.70. I am happy to skip a Starbucks coffee once a week, if I don't have to fight with my dishwasher every day, because it doesn't do what I need it to do.

As for K. Brown, sorry to hear that your old dishwasher died rather pre-maturely. Was it something unique to your particular model? Or was it something unique to your life-style or water supply that would put other dishwashers at similar risk? Water softness is only one of several issues with water quality that can put extra strain on appliances.

In Consumer Reports predicted reliability, Bosch earns a 10 and Whirlpool a 9. You can buy a Whirlpool WDF520PADM for $378 at Home Depot...and still afford lots of cups of coffee at Starbucks.

Whirlpool manufactures IKEA dishwashers.

No question the Cove dishwasher is a splurge. I have that Whirlpool in my vacation home. It’s loud, but it works.

The Miele I bought is $800 less than the new Cove and works beautifully and has auto open.

Or you can spend $1,000 more on the knock to open Miele with custom panel. It’s great to have options.

I wouldn't have a problem, if somebody argued that $2000 is just too much money. I could absolutely see that the Cove is overpriced for an unproven product. I can follow the argument that it has features that might not be needed by everybody.

But if CR makes you believe that a $400 dishwasher is comparable to a $2000 model from a highly respected manufacturer, then that flies directly in the face of both my own experience and the experience of lots of other people in this forum.

I own both a Miele (not $2000, but on the upper end of their product selection) and a Kitchenaid dishwasher. And I have used many other dishwashers over the years (hint: AirBNB is a great way to test out different kitchen appliances).

If you think that the Cove and the IKEA model are even in the same ballpark, you really need to lay off reading fiction for a while. Instead, read the Houzz archives. We regularly have discussions why the CR methodology is simply flawed and is worse than useless when trying to make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there aren't very many useful publications available. Collecting the required data is hard. It's much easier to collect data that is easy to measure but altogether meaningless.

Personally, I'd probably buy a Miele or Bosch and would hold off on the Cove since it is too new. But I understand why on paper it looks really good, and while very high, the price doesn't seem entirely outlandish.

Suzanne, I got a couple of jars of the chef’s wonderful raspberry jam, lol. We were impressed with what we saw, but weren’t able to run a load on that visit. We also looked at the Miele knock to open dishwashers at the same time. I was recovering from a broken shoulder at the time, and found that the knock to open was too hard for me to open.

That jam was good, mine was gone in 2 weeks!

Why does one need the knock to open Miele when you can get the auto open one? And yes mine has custom panels.

I think its for opening it to load dishes. Seemed silly to me also, but a great party trick.

"We regularly have discussions why the CR methodology is simply flawed and is worse than useless when trying to make an informed decision."

We've convinced ourselves that fancy-pants, expensive appliances, particularly those manufactured overseas are always better and no amount of consistently performed, objective testing is going to change our minds!!!

As has been pointed out here many times, objective testing is useless, if it tests things that really don't have any practical meaning.

Since you don't seem to understand, let's give a car analogy. That always is popular:

I can objectively measure the wheelbase of a car. That's awesome. It's easy and reproducible. I also know that a shorter wheelbase frequently is associated with a tighter turning radius. I now declare that one of my main testing criteria is a short wheel base; not because it really matters, but because it is easy to test and gives a precise number. And much to everybody's surprise, the PT Cruiser is now ranked much higher than the Honda Civic. So, let's all go out and abandon those fancy-pants, overseas cars and get a consistently performing PT Cruiser instead.

To come back to the topic at hand, for how long have you actually owned a "fancy pants" dishwasher and then compared it to a cheaper model? Or are you simply regurgitating what CR tells you. Because you got replies from several people who have done this. And it doesn't take any fancy testing to objectively tell that there are very real differences.

My Kitchenaid (higher end version of what you keep suggesting) has plastic parts that break at least once a year and make the top basket come crashing down. Due to poorly organized baskets, it only accepts much fewer dishes than my Miele. And it always leaves items that need to be washed by hand. But it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than the Miele.

My Miele on the other hand gets much more heavy use, is by now older than the Kitchenaid, has yet to have had any broken parts, cleans every single dish perfectly even if I happen to have forgot to even add detergent, and allows me to squeeze a lot more dishes into the machine. But yes, it's fancy pants and obviously a waste of money.

Wait, what? Raspberry jam and dishwasher demonstration? Am I misinterpreting or extrapolating something and coming up with the wrong answer. Do I need another cup of coffee?

Remember the Miele G7000 series "should" make it's way to the US this year. You can see info about it on the Miele UK site.

waverly6 it’s a use and care class on all the appliances they sell. The chef goes over cooktops, ovens, range tops, dishwashers and refrigeration. They feed you a gourmet lunch and send you home with homemade jam from the chef. Takes about 1 1/2 hours. Sub-Zero/Wolf also does a 1 1/2 hour class just on the CSO.

"We went to 2 classes at the Scottsdale Showroom. One was a general overview of the appliances and the other in the CSO. Definitely go",

What is CSO? Where is the exact location(s) the classes were held if I may ask?

Convection Steam Oven. The showroom I went to is in Scottsdale, AZ

https://www.subzero-wolf.com/locator/sub-zero-and-wolf-showroom-phoenix

Suzanne, thank you so much for the info. I will definitely stop by at the store.

I believe Scottsdale also has a Miele Experience Center. Make sure you check that one out. That should offer similar classes, and I personally think their CSO is more advanced than any of the competitors'. So, well worth checking out before making a purchase decision.

M, than you for doing such a great job responding to the CR poster.

I do wonder if he/she is an actual shill for the publication. After all, CR is hardly a secret. If I come here to discuss appliances, it's because CR does not meet my needs.

If one size fit all, the market would be very different than what it is today.

Yes the Miele Scottsdale Experience Center does the same thing as the Sub-Zero Showroom. I agree that the Miele CSO is better than the Wolf even though I got the Wolf.

"We've convinced ourselves that fancy-pants, expensive appliances, particularly those manufactured overseas are always better and no amount of consistently performed, objective testing is going to change our minds!!!"

The above statements are beyond flawed.

After following CR's advices based on their "consistently performed, objective testing" , we have lost tons of hard earned money, and have became opponent of the publication...it is why we are checking out the fancy-pants, expensive appliances....manufactured overseas (gasp!)

The alternative explanation the CR folks have to accept is that we are too stupid to know how to spend our money, just smart enough to earn it.

I used to subscribe to CR many moons ago before the internet. I bought a couple of items that

were highly rated by them. Very disappointing and then the following year they said they were crap. Well I just bought those crappy items at their recommendation. That's when I stopped subscribing and never listen to anyone who promotes their mag or such and such product.

With all of the information available and forums like this, I clearly don't need to listen to CR.

As a side note; when we were living in France, it was amazing how everyone "loved" American things. I knew a French couple who lived in Iowa for a few years. They bought a house because housing was so inexpensive and they LOVED the kitchen. Upon their return to France, they uninstalled the entire kitchen (including garbage disposer which were not available in France)) and had it shipped to France. Their new house was being designed around their American kitchen and temporarily installed in their rental apartment. It was customary in Europe and specifically France to take your kitchen with you when you moved. You've heard of the expression "everything but the kitchen sink" The sink always stayed. I asked them how they could sell an American house without a kitchen. Easy, They bought a cheap kitchen and sold the house.

Inga

Last year (2018) when my Miele from 2010 started to have issues and the main circulation pump motor went out, I was not happy, as it is an expensive part (around $700) and would have cost $300 for Miele tech to replace. So instead of spending $1000 to repair an 8 year old unit, I looked to replace it for under $1600. The newer Miele G6625 and Asko 40 series was around the same price and it was a toss-up as to which one to get, though I did like the Miele more. Was able to get one for a few hundred less due to a item that was customer canceled and in the warehouse. Then two months ago I called Miele to buy the extended warranty, which is $300 for 5 years from date of purchase, but some how it came up as $160.

With that in mind, the Cove would be about $800 more than what my (discounted) Miele cost. But with the current Miele MSRP, which went up in Feb, the Cove isn't too much more, and is less than the higher-end Miele units.

I'm sure when the G7000 series comes to the US with the AutoDos disc, those units will cost even more.

SZ had not released the Cove when we were remodeling 2017/2018. SZ/Wolfe bundled ASKO at that time. Consider Miele, Thermador and ASKO. Went with the ASKO DF1675XXL ($1600) because I like the interior racks and the turbo dry feature (wonderful). The controls are not complicated and washing time is easily changed. Center rack can be completely removed or partially removed. I do not care for a silverware rack, and the DW I selected has the removable/movable basket. The smaller center rack is a great place for glass food storage containers. Previously had a BOSCH and it was quiet, so wanted another quiet DW. The ASKO is quiet while washing and drying. Has a red light that glows from the bottom while washing, green once finished. The only time it is a little loud is during draining which does not last long.

My advice is go see them all before deciding. Don't buy something you don't like just because it's in a bundle. If you wash large platters or pots, take one with you to be sure it fits.

I have used my Cove with the water softener about 5 times. My observations so far.

Super quiet

Cleans perfect - glasses are perfect no spots - plastic comes out dry

Very adjustable inside - has everything that is adjustable colored green

So overall very impressed

Suzanne, thank you for your report. I think that is the one we will go with.

Does anyone have a report of how well the cove dishwasher dries?

Melissa, Suzanne had reported - two posts above yours.

Yes everything is dry

Thank you for pointing that out Allison! And thank you Suzanne! I am waffling between the Miele and Cove. The Cove is just so new. Interesting that the Cove has reverted to a heating element. I thought most company’s were taking them out as if something falls (like plastic) it could melt!

I'm pretty certain that the Cove dishwasher came out in 1Q 2018. With all product introductions from a well run conservative company, they probably did a ramp up to a higher level of production volume probably starting out with very low volumes and offering only to select markets initially. I don't think you can compare the build quality of the racks and the jets between the low end domestic dishwashers and a Cove, the Cove is simply better in every way, particularly in sound levels where it is reported to be in the 30's dB - that is quiet.

I took a hard look at the Cove, and was thoroughly impressed, but I did end up buying a lower end Miele because it just cleans well, has huge capacity for thin dishes, is quiet, and more of the cost of the product seemed directed into the overall unit rather than a bunch of fancy control options I would never use than some brands. Neither is a poor choice, and if funds are limited, there are some solid other options out there in the $500-$800 range.

We all have disposable income. Everyone has a passion. Some are houses, some are the appliances in the house, others are into cars, boats, art, jewelry or other highly expensive hobbies. That said, be compassionate to someone whose passion that might not be in sync with yours. Not everyone is focused on "bang for the buck".

@laundryvet – Not everyone is focused on "bang for the buck".

So true. If bang for the buck were the only important factor, there'd be no room for products that put a premium on aesthetics. Or nice-to-have-but-unnecessary features.

Any updates from those who own Cove dishwashers?

These guys didn't like it so much

https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/content/cove-dw2450-panel-ready-dishwasher-review#what-we-don-t-like

I recently took my sister to get a new refrigerator and DW. The saleslady at a large local appliance store said she would not recommend the new Cove dishwashers. I think they have a. few kinks to work out.

Every store that has the Cove in my area that I have visited strongly recommends it. If I had not come across the negative review linked above, i would have been very tempted to get one.

I purchased the Cove with the water softener. It was on back order for over a month and was finally delivered and installed mid September. Unfortunately it did not live up to all the marketing hype. I would consistently find dirty dishes and dirty spoons at the conclusion of very long cycles. Casserole dishes did not come out clean even after using a 7 hour soak and scrub cycle. Quiet YES, excellent washability NO. I found the auto cycle most useless. I don’t know if it was the sensors, water temperature, water distribution, or whatever—my dishes weren’t as clean as I wanted and i grew tired of carefully inspecting each and every dish and utensil for redeposit when unloading. It was most embarrassing when a guest used a dirty spoon that came out of a brand new dishwasher. I must say that all of the folks at Subzero have been great— they promptly sent out a service tech—he replaced a diverter valve which unfortunately didn’t change anything. The repair tech stated several times that this is a difficult machine to repair. Then SZ had me connect my machine to their app so their engineers could determine why I was getting such poor washability. They had me submit pictures of pre and post loads. They concluded I was loading properly and their machine cycles were performing as designed. In the end, they offered to buy back their machine and I accepted. I respect Subzero, particularly their stellar customer service and their offer to buy back the machine. At this point, I feel one probably needs to wait another year or two for SZ to work out the bugs in this dishwasher before deciding to purchase their dishwasher. When i read the recent Cove review on Reviewed.com, it certainly rang true to my experiences with this machine. There are definitely other machines in the market place that clean a lot better. Other observations: the end of cycle chime alert is hardly audible— there is no way in their current design for the user to make it louder. You can adjust the pitch, but you can’t make it louder. The lower rack is very hard to adjust with arthritic hands. My plates and bowls did not secure nicely into the racks as in other dishwashers I have owned in other houses over the years. The upper third utensil rack is much too shallow for larger serving utensils. Unlike all of my other stainless appliances, the stainless door panel on the Cove DW is difficult to clean and smudges very easily. I have since replaced the Cove with Miele (Lumen Ecoflex). I am now a very happy camper—Miele consistently washes like a champ. The Miele holds a lot more of my dishes, the racks adjust easily, and the dishes come out squeaky clean every time. The stainless door on the Miele looks great and is very easy to maintain.

I also have had a Cove dishwasher for 2 months now, and I agree that there is something to be desired in washability. I was drawn to this dishwasher by the saleswoman's claim that it is designed to last 20 years, which is far longer than most appliances these days. I also don't care for the periodic technical glitches that require one to turn off the appliance at the breaker box so it can reboot.

I’ve had mine for 2 months and have been extremely happy with it. Once I figured out the best way to load the thing, based on my dishes and cookware, it has been pretty much as advertised.

I don’t expect any dishwasher to completely dry plastics in a “normal” program. And I scrape my plates thoroughly. So far, I have liked it much better than the 2 Bosch machines I’ve owned.