Dang, I gotta get myself over to Boerne!!!!! I've never explored that area. I think that's gonna be the next vacation request. Seriously.

Yes, the Thai restaurant is a good one!

ODD, m'darlin' - I think you know at this point that I very much understand what you're trying to accomplish and that I'm in somewhat the same boat. So I hope you won't take it too much amiss if I say... I think yer doin' it wrong.

My advice would be, ditch the RE agent. Well, don't ditch her, you'll need her later for paperwork. Put a pin in her. Not literally, mind. Though I do feel like a voo-doo doll might not be uncalled for...

I say this because the type of parcel you are looking for doesn't come on the open market much, if ever. 90% of the time, the sort of smallish, rural chunk of property you want exchanges hands via family ties, word of mouth, or community-based info. That is a network that is difficult to tap into. Circa 1980, you'd hit all of the small coffee places where the septuagenarian set has their own personal coffee mugs hanging on a rack behind the counter and the waitress knows their favorite donuts.

But it's 2019, and the internet can help!

We did much what you are trying to do. And I mostly did it with the help of the GIS map of the county I was land shopping in. There should be one for your county. Google for the county name and GIS.

GIS maps the whole county AND draws parcel lines. Click on the parcel and you are taken to another page that has the name and address of the owner of record, as well as some other tidbits of information. (Sometimes they're useful info bits - regarding recent sales or splits, so remember this feature). Often there are some "tools" you can use - satellite image overlay, and measurement tools, among others. Use these, too.

First I looked up the local zoning board rules for splits, so I knew how much frontage was required, how large parcels had to be, etc. Then I went hunting for parcels I liked that were still vacant. (GIS has info on that, too. Plus you can see them on the satellilte map). When I found something interesting, I entered the info into my spreadsheet.

Next, I went and bought some notecards. Pretty ones, usually with pink or aqua envelopes. On each notecard, I handwrote a little description of who we were (familyl with two autistic children) what we were looking to do (build a farmstead and have room for the kids to be kids), asked if they were interested in selling the parcel I described, and gave contact info for both myself and my husband. Why pretty notecards? They look like bridal/baby shower/event invites. Most men hand those to their wives. Wife reads note, goes to husband and says, (ideally) "this nice lady wants to buy that overgrown briar patch we've been paying taxes on and you aren't using. Why don't we sell it to her?"

This approach got me about a 30% response rate. If you know anything about sales and cold calling, that's a pretty good return on effort. Sometimes the response was just "not interested." Sometimes they WERE interested. At this point, it's best to ask if you may walk the property. If you find something that is a deal-killer, you haven't really wasted anyone's time.

Sometimes, in addition to "not interested" you'll get a talkative soul who will launch into a description of who owns which parcels locally, who's feudin' with who, etc. Let him/ her ramble. In the course of it, he/she may suddenly remember someone else who was maybe interested in selling.

You can also ask if they might be willing to sell a split on a larger parcel. Mark the ones that don't look like the acreage is actively being farmed, and do a driveby. Add them to your list.

Go to a township board meeing/zoning board meeting. Say hello afterwards to the members. Let them know what you're doing. Often, this will start a cascade of thoughtfulness, generating ideas like, "Mary Beeler's husband died last winter and she can't take care of the place by herself. None of the kids want it, but she doesn't want to sell the house. Maybe she'd be willing to sell a split?"

All told I think we looked over at least a dozen properties - some were sold to other people, one once sold to the parks department (that's a whole 'nother story), some we passed on as being not right for us, some we couldn't come to an agreement on price that was satisfactory to both parties. And not ONE of them was ever listed with an agent. We paid an agent a flat fee to do the paperwork (which she still screwed up, but it got fixed). But to anyone looking for land, none of those parcels ever appeared as "for sale."

Addendum - anybody who DOESN'T contact you back is worth making a phone call to. I'm rather embarrassed to admit just how good my cyber-stalking got in the process, but you can usually hunt someone down if you really want to. Though as a bonus, I did find that calling someone at their office two states away regarding a parcel they'd almost forgotten owning got us ALMOST enough points for sheer perseverance to almost make it a sale.

A further note: Rural people are sometimes more emotionally attached to their little patch of ground. So make sure that you make these efforts yourself - do not have your agent blast out letters and make phone calls. People will disregard an agent as just looking for something to sell. They are more likely to respond positively to that nice-seeming family that needs a home of their own. Really. Especially if you're asking for a split. The people you're asking are contemplating both A. do they want to part with a piece of The Ol' Homestead and B. do they want you as a neighbor? Therefore, be polite about your request. Make sure you're not asking for most of the frontage. Don't build your house right on their property line. Assure them that they won't spend the next 20 years regretting your presence.

Upside - most rural people would rather sell a small split to a quiet neighbor than to a developer who plans on putting in an 80-homesite subdivision. Especially if they are staying in the area. Selling out to a developer will get you in Dutch with your neighbors. Yes, the developer may pay more, but it's a harder sell. OTOH, keep an ear to the ground and ask at those zoning meetings about land use planning. You don't want to get your house up, only to have that development go in right next door to YOU either, if you can help it.

Too funny!

The day after my last post, I spoke at length with my folks, about the realtor mess. One of them decided, "That's it. No more real estate agents. Period." I had to gracefully thank Denita for her offer to help, and let her go before even getting started.

Instead of using a realtor for anything, final documents can be drafted using an attorney. That's the plan, anyway. If that won't work, someone let me know....

I drafted a short note/letter to send to land owners, briefly describing our family (didn't mention the kids' special needs, but am reconsidering) and our goals for the land. I'm still fine tuning/editing it. I already decided to use nice stationery (I used to work in a related industry; I know all about the power of pretty paper), but I had no idea that these GIS maps were available online with owner info attached! Wow!

I *did* know to check the county's building & development department for 15/20 year plans for the area (husband used to do civil engineering for a municipality in another state), so I'm not totally shooting in the dark over here, lol! :-)

That GIS stuff, though... That's a game changer. Thank you so much for that!

Glad I could help. It's so much more efficient than driving around and knocking on doors!

Lol, as an owner of 12 acres parsel I frequently get these sell for a mom and kids with special needs card. I always assumed they are fraudulent, con artist, or from the unscrupulous developer. No mommy with autistic kids can handle 12 acres lot and Not including house construction. Just mowing the property takes 8 hours. They come now so frequently I get completely desensitized. I aslo noticed every time make money on real estate conference in town I get two or three cards.

I always assumed they are fraudulent, con artist, or from the unscrupulous developer.

This is an excellent point; one I hadn't considered.

Like I said, in the original drafts of my note (hand written, mind you -- always have done things this way; always will), I had deliberately neglected to mention the children's special needs. It was more of a privacy thing, rather than a concern that someone would believe me to be a con artist, but I appreciate the point being made.

I actually *am* a mom of several special need kids, and have zero desire for more than 2 or 3 acres. My husband and I will have practical hands-on assistance from extended family (multi-generation home), so it's not like I'm a single mom with a boatload of kids while holding down 3 jobs and no time to care for a little slice of land.

But it's actually no one else's business who exactly I am, especially in the first point of contact. Let skeptics not believe me! ;-)

FWIW, maintaining 2-3 acres can be quite a time job, especially during Spring and Summer... :-)

FWIW, maintaining 2-3 acres can be quite a time job, especially during Spring and Summer... :-)

Good thing I'm not doing this all by myself. :-D

I have 10.7 acres. I don't mow it. That would be a waste. It isn't the lawn of Pemberly, it's pasture, garden, orchard, woodlot, etc. Though I am busy shopping the USDA database for more varieties of apples to plant...

So you let the pasture grasses come up to the house unchecked each year?

And the deer, foxes, skunks, chiggers, snakes, bears, alligators, elephants and leeches are free to roam, awaiting you, your children and pets to dare to go outside?

That's the ol' pioneer spirit...! :-)

Here it's snakes, javelina, poison toads, coyotes, bobcats, and the occasional mountain lion. But I don't think mowing a lawn is going to deter them. (Following!)

We did the identifying properties and sent out letters. Our realtor sent the letters for us, but identified us by name and that we are local (rural area, but with lots of retiree influx buying up property). We ended up looking at 2 of them. We made an offer and on one they really liked our offer, but decided to not sell anyways as they had bought the land to retire on and couldn't think of another retirement plan. The other one was not a good negotiation as they wanted way more than comps. We got a response to 50% of our letters. There was another one we could have looked at, but it was over 100 acres and we wanted between 30-50 acres and they weren't willing to split. The other ones had to check with family members and came back with not selling at this time. Our area is very expensive land wise and I'm in East central Texas.

One thing to be prepared for though is to pay top market value with this approach since the sellers doesn't need to sell so they expect top dollars. You need a good handle on comps so you can provide them if need be in negotiations as you don't want to be paying more than comps, but need to justify your amount.

In the end we found ours through a listing and from just looking at the county tax assessor maps it wasn't something that we would have had an interest in at all based on the shape and location, but it has turned out to be better than any of the 30+ properties we viewed in our 3 year search. We constantly discover cool new things when we are out there and I can't wait to move. Our architect is currently working on the site plan.

We currently have 2 acres (had 4, but sold off 2 acres in preparation for moving). What are your goals for the 2-5 acres? The reason I'm asking is that going from a small neighborhood lot it seems like a lot, but 2 acres isn't really that large and if planning multiple buildings it will become more restrictive. 4 acres and above is better to have a little more space and a buffer from neighbors. All depends on what your plans are for the property. Wooded or not etc.

So you let the pasture grasses come up to the house unchecked each year?

No-mow native grass mix in lieu of a lawn. That's a bit of a misnomer. It needs to be mowed twice a year - once in the spring when it tried to set seed heads and once again... about now-ish. You couldn't golf on it, but it's an acceptable turf, drought-resistant, and low maintenance.

The coyotes are a whole other problem, and on the list to deal with ASAP.

Lawns really aren't the greatest use of real estate, and when your area already has a water issue, a poor use of resources.

While visiting friends of ours in San Francisco, they tried to tell us about the coyotes in the neighborhood. I wasn't born yesterday and didn't believe a word they said. While walking to their house after dinner that evening, 25 yards in front of us, at the corner of Lombard and Grant, we saw a coyote crossing the street.

"No-mow native grass mix in lieu of a lawn. That's a bit of a misnomer. It needs to be mowed twice a year - once in the spring when it tried to set seed heads and once again... about now-ish. You couldn't golf on it, but it's an acceptable turf, drought-resistant, and low maintenance."

wow. I learn something new every day. I'll have to check this out.

The blend I have does OK up here it the Great White North. It apparently doesn't like Texas. But you might be able to find something suited to your growing conditions if you look around:

https://www.prairienursery.com/resources-and-guides/no-mow-resources/

Buffalo grass is great for Texas.

Here it's snakes, javelina, poison toads, coyotes, bobcats, and the occasional mountain lion. But I don't think mowing a lawn is going to deter them. (Following!)

Sounds like Phoenix. :-D Except we had scorpions, too, when we lived there.

The other one was not a good negotiation as they wanted way more than comps.

I expect quite a bit of this. I'm not in any particular hurry. I'm serious about buying, but I'm patient; I'm in this for the long haul.

[...] but it has turned out to be better than any of the 30+ properties we viewed in our 3 year search.

The thought of waiting 3 years stings a bit, lol, but I'm willing to wait, if necessary. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

What are your goals for the 2-5 acres? The reason I'm asking is that going from a small neighborhood lot it seems like a lot, but 2 acres isn't really that large and if planning multiple buildings it will become more restrictive. 4 acres and above is better to have a little more space and a buffer from neighbors. All depends on what your plans are for the property. Wooded or not etc.

I have worried about the acreage thing. I've only ever personally managed 1/5-1/4 acre before, and I let the architect know that in addition to multiple dwellings, I'd really only like to add some trees and small rose gardens here and there. Nothing major. He recommended 2 acres for my project.

I'd like to stick to 2 acres, but am willing to bump it up to 5, in case what we want (location, orientation, etc.) translates to a larger parcel. My sister has 10, and I already know that I have zero desire to manage that much, lol. (I water everything by hand -- Me, a 5-gallon Homer bucket, and a hose; I just like getting outside every 3-5 days to check on everything I'm growing. :-D )

I also very much strongly dislike lawn-type grass (Bermuda, although I could be convinced to go with a small patch of St. Augustine...), just because there are so many different low-growing groundcovers out there, just waiting for a chance to shine in my yard.

ODD, am I reading this correctly? you are using a realtor to help you find land?

por que why?

draw a circle around the 1
))1area you want on realtor. com and set up your parameters eg greater than 2 acres, price between x and y, and save the search, and have realtor.com email you every time a property matching your criteria comes up.

do they have tax lien sales in your area? keep up with those.

do you have a central appraisal district you can search based on acreage? do that search and look for land that is owned by "estate of xxx". the children probably inherited that and would offload it in a heartbeat.

also check on Zillow for fsbo sales. Zillow allows owners to post on there for free and people take advantage of it. it won't show on the MLS but you may get lucky because many don't check for sales fsbo on Zillow. I found my property this way and paid $100k per acre less than market

good luck

A herd of goats will keep the field grass in check...but you have to watch your step...!

A herd of goats will keep the field grass in check...but you have to watch your step...!

I can see where this is going... Next, I'll be on the hunt for critters with an affinity for goat droppings... lol

Depending on acreage, you can use goats, chickens or bees to qualify for ag exemption in Texas, subject to gross annual revenues from ag operations.

We searched for land for approximately 10 years or so before finding our spot. And it wasn't for sale. It was adjacent to a piece of property that was for sale and we considered briefly... but we would need a right of way (from what became the farm we bought). Discussed the right of way with the owners, they didn't really want to do what we wanted. I just happened to say I really liked the farm and if they ever wanted to sell part of it, to let me know. About a month and a half passed and they called. a year and a half later, we closed on our farm :)

And, crossing our fingers, close on our construction loan tomorrow :) 3yrs 8mo after buying the farm. Good things come to those who wait, right?!!

Or maybe a minimum herd size? :-O

I guess I could go with dwarf/pygmy varieties?

Wouldn't that be downright comical? Giant dog among tiny goats?

Unless there is an HOA. Saw one were they allowed horses, but no barnyard animals.

Horses and cattle require more land per head or unit, in case of cattle.

Well maybe I can get a miniature horse, so that from a distance, people say, "Is that... her... dog...? Or her... horse?" :-D

We searched for land for approximately 10 years or so before finding our spot.

Wowza!!! :-O A decade! While I, personally, am patient enough for that, my folks (nearly 60 years old) are not, and they really want to be a part of my vision.

Wow. I'm still in awe of ten years!

Ag exemptions are set by each county and the acreage required may vary by what will be considered. I.E., bees can be only a few hives, fruit trees might be a good prospect. Live animals, horses, cows, goats, sheep, etc. require a LOT more care and $$ than bees or trees!

Yes, but it's hard to ride bees...

Luckily, we liked where we lived already and had the freedom to take our time. we looked at lots of properties that were ok but not great early on. Then the natural gas boom hit and the market for land really dried up. We really were lucky to stumble onto this property.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7332/27342928156_db79d7a1b2_b.jpg

That's gorgeous, Doc! I'd say it was worth the 10 year wait, for sure. <3

I kinda wish I didn't feel the pressure from my folks to buy something *right this second* -- my husband and I originally hadn't planned on including either set of our parents in this crazy scheme -- but I hope the fire they're putting under us will be beneficial in the long run, lol.

Doc, wow, awesome property and those stellar views. ODD, the land will find you :)

Good way to put it, the land will find you. I believe this too. Not that it means you just sit on your hands & wait for it, but good things do come to those who wait. Or rather, maybe, to those who don't rush something that's obviously not really what it needs to be.

The first house we purchased in a subdivision in our rural community, we aimed to be in, oh 4 or 5 years. Wound up being 14 to the month. We're fortunate in more ways than I can say, to not have had to rush "our field of dreams". BUUUUUT... We did think for quite some time it was going to be a different field. lol :)
When it came time to try to pin the details down, we hit wall after wall.

After a while, we stepped back and took the hints. Several years later the perfect spot did just kind of find us. Through word of mouth, and talking to neighbors, all the things that the brilliant minds above have mentioned. And wound up with a split that wasn't for sale at all. :)

Good luck ODD!

So, I just barely dived into the county's GIS maps today. Wow. I actually found 3 adjacent 1-acre parcels *in town* without houses on them. Totally shocked.

Now, I'm not so naive/arrogant as to think that the lady who owns them will sell them to anyone, but the fact that vacant lots of 1 acre *exist* in my area (unincorporated county island surrounded by city limits) is extraordinarily encouraging.

:-D

I'm drafting my note to her right now. Won't do a final draft, or send it out, until I drive by the properties, but I'm familiar with the neighborhood (it's 5 miles away).

We were able to find a gorgeous hill top two acres in the middle of town; minutes from work and church and every conceivable amenity. It IS doable, but you must be a) patient, b) willing to pay upper market value, and c) just a little bit lucky.

i hope you find the PERFECT parcel!

Any updates?

Sigh. Not really.

My folks have a sense of urgency that my husband and I don't share. But since this is *our* project (husband and I conceived the idea, and as I was sharing it with my mom over the course of several years, she decided she wanted to be part of it), they may have to exercise more patience. :-) We aren't finding what we want, where we want.

Good news is, though, we've agreed on a style. My dad doesn't honestly care, but Mom, husband, and I all like Spanish architecture. So now I have to find a stone-clad Spanish house to show my architect. One that doesn't look like a palace. Seriously, a single story, stone-covered Spanish casa is not the easiest thing to find. 99% of what's out there is stucco. It's not that I don't like stucco, it's just that I want something as maintenance-free as possible for the kids.

I tried expanding my search for "Hacienda" style houses last night (gorgeous, and very colorful -- yay! -- but... stucco). I just remembered a previous suggestion, from someone here at GardenWeb, to check out listings for houses in other countries. Perhaps I should start with Mexico....

did your search specify "limestone"?Also, try Mediterranean.

Yeah, I specifically tried "limestone" (since it's a natural stone around here, lol). :-/ There is a Martinez house in Hebbronville, Texas, that was build with bricks, that is Spanish Colonial, but that was the closest I found.

I have been hesitant to try "Mediterranean" because I don't want to show my architect photos of Med style houses when I say I want Spanish. Mediterranean, although liked by everyone else in my group, too, has been overdone A LOT and seems to be over-represented among the McMansion crowd.

I spent several long minutes trying to find houses in Mexico, but couldn't find anything.

Perhaps this is a case of, "There is a reason why you can't find what you think you want. It's a bad idea."

:-/

The only limestone building I know is a federal courthouse.

I understand that it was ridiculously expensive to build, though it is gorgeous. (Sorry, I know I'm no help!)

Show your architect images of what you feel exemplifies the "Spanish architecture" you are looking for regardless of the exterior finish, and let them know the stone you want on the exterior. They are not there to copy, they are there to create.

"Architects see things that are not there . . . yet."

Ms ODD, do you or one of your local libraries have a copy of "A Field Guide to American Houses", by Virginia and Lee McAlester? It is a classic reference resource when it comes to historical styles of houses.

In the book, the authors identify, illustrate and discuss a variety of housing types which are connected to Spanish history in the US. Included are the following distinct styles:

--Spanish Colonial

--Mission

--Spanish Eclectic

--Monterey (Sometimes called Monterey Colonial...a favorite of mine, perhaps because I was fortunate enough to spend a year in Monterey after returning from Vietnam)

--Pueblo Revival

If you want to skim through Mediterranean period houses, there's Italian Renaissance. And a couple of favorites of mine (no relation to Spanish or Mediterranean, but some commonalities with Texas vernacular houses) are Folk Victorian and Colonial Revival (not Greek Revival).

All have interesting, and very different architectural features. I think you might enjoy searching for and exploring all of these.

Good luck!

(Sorry, I know I'm no help!)

lol It's okay!

Show your architect images of what you feel exemplifies the "Spanish architecture" you are looking for regardless of the exterior finish, and let them know the stone you want on the exterior. They are not there to copy, they are there to create.

Seriously??? Excellent!!!

My fear was along the lines of, "I'm gonna ask for a Spanish house done in stone, and he's gonna think, 'Why doesn't she just want a legitimate stone style, like Hill Country? Crazy chick.' " lol I don't enjoy looking like an idiot.

Ms ODD, do you or one of your local libraries have a copy of "A Field Guide to American Houses", by Virginia and Lee McAlester?

I do! This was one of the first (if not *the* first) book on architecture that I bought. It's been awhile since I flipped through it; probably wouldn't be a bad idea to refresh my memory. I *do* recall being enamored of the sketches of the Spanish Revival details.

I just dragged it out, lol, and found a stone Spanish Revival on page 528, #4, the Baty House from 1936, in Dallas! Oooooh!!! Thank you for suggesting I drag out my book again! :-D

Edited to add:

Here I am, trying to do an internet search for this house, and do you think I can find anything??? Seriously! :-( I know people say, "Oh, you can find *anything* on the internet!" but I have had several instances of frustration, where I can't find jack. Oh, it's great to be ODD.

Edited again to add:

If anyone out there does a search for this house, be warned that a lot of results that come back are for "bath houses," and, well, since I live under a rock, I was a little shocked to discover what exactly that was (in modern times)....

You might do an Internet search (text and photos) for the categories of Spanish style houses as identified by the McAlesters...

ODD I live in an area of the country with lots of Spanish style houses, many dating to the 1920's, and I don't think I have seen one with stone as the main exterior material. I have seen a few Santa Barbara style houses that are brick on the outside, either very pale whitewash or painted off white. I think there is a reason your searches aren't finding anything ...

Google "Emmor J. Miley House" and you will get one example! Supposedly it was influenced by Andalusian style, but googling that term also gave lots of stucco exteriors ...

@One Devoted Dame Try searching "Austin Stone" instead of Limestone! I did a quick look searching: austin stone spanish colonial (no quotes). There were a couple stone only and a lot with mostly stone and stucco accent. Might be easier to envision with only a little stucco instead of it being the main finish.

Spanish Colonial Luxury Patio Home · More Info

You might do an Internet search (text and photos) for the categories of Spanish style houses as identified by the McAlesters...

Perhaps I need to change over to "Revival," too, instead of "Colonial." I will also start searching for the McAlesters' terms. Good point. I'm embarrassed I hadn't thought of that already.

I think there is a reason your searches aren't finding anything ...

Sigh. Yeah. Of course. :-(

Google "Emmor J. Miley House" and you will get one example!

OhmyGOSH!!! YES!!!! Aaaaah, thank you thank you thank you! THAT is exactly the cladding I was looking for. :-) It also gave me another search term, "sandstone."

Try searching "Austin Stone" instead of Limestone!

Oh, dang, ANOTHER great suggestion! That is one of the most adorable Spanish houses I've seen. Thank you so much, wow! <3 Y'all are awesome. <3