How about huisache? It’s astonishing when it blooms, the flowers smell really good, good looking foliage, not so dense shade and drought tolerant. I know that King Feed in Wimberley has some of them. It is incredible thorny but you are not afraid of thorns, are you?

Omar

Wow! 4 ' a year! That compares with the growth rate of Royal Empress Pawlonia trees. I grew one of those at my last house. It, too, averaged 3-4' a year. In 13 years it grew from a 4" sapling I got mail order to 30'+ tall that shaded the entire side of my driveway. They are a bit messy with flower and leaf dropping however.

Omar, Huisache sounds like my kind of tree. The idea of thorns does not bother me.

The link says, "'Sierra Sweet' is an almost seedless cultivar, with fewer brown pods to clean up.". It also says it is fast growing, but lists it as growing in clay or sandy soils. I wonder how it would like my somewhat improved black alkaline soil over rocks. Anybody know?

Mara, do they grow in your vicinity?

However, it grew so thickly where I used to live just a 8 or 9 miles SW of here that someone in the neighborhood sold Huisache honey.

Thank you also for the Wimberly lead. Will call around San Antonio and see what might be here.

Buttoni, there's a Pawlonia tree growing not far for me. It was so beautiful in full bloom that I took a photo and put in on this forum for an ID.

I had a really nice shot of my Pawlonia but it got lost in a computer crash as I had not yet saved it to disk. It still show on Google Maps, but it's not in bloom in their shot. It was gorgeous in full bloom. The folks that bought my house cut it down. I was so dismayed by that news. I had worked so hard for so many years on that little 4" sapling.

Yes, no doubt about it. I DO need another tree. Will wait of course until fall to plant. Now just to decide on which one. Omar, thank you for the additional info on the Huisache tree.

A couple of years ago James next door planted two Monterrey oaks in the fields by our houses, along with various other trees. He carries buckets of water in his golf cart to water them. He has little fences around them to keep the deer away. They are all doing well.

A vehicle illegally drove though the field one night last week and knocked one of the Monterrey oaks over; fence, re-bar and all. James straightened it up the next day, added more soil, watered it, and it never even wilted.

Following the discussion, because I need one more summer shade tree ASAP. We have hundreds of Huisache in undeveloped areas of NE San Antonio (clay soil on this side of town, not caliche). Their roots seem to go a long ways and persist for a couple years after isolated trees are removed. If the Utilities right of way strips and detention ponds didn't get mowed, it would spring up all over.

Elsewhere there's a row of them outside the east fence at the SA Botanical Garden, and quite a few in Brackenridge Park. The tallest ones I've seen are in inner city neighborhoods, now surrounded by parking lot & pavement but doing fine.

They look wonderful from a distance when dozens are in bloom. And up close the gold puffball flowers are splendid. As for the aroma I appreciate a passing whiff now and then from a block away. But if I had to smell it up close 2 months straight 24/7 I'd go noseblind and get congested. It reminds me of the cheap shaving cream and hair grooming products that prevailed 50 yrs ago (Brylcreme, Vitalis, sickly sweet 'greasy kids stuff' haha). YMMV. I was going to tell Blackwillow87 to count his blessings that it doesn't grow that far north.

Ragna, how about the one with creamy panicles that is still blooming all over in the wild? I can’t remember it’s name but it is pretty and drought tolerant.

And the one that you have in your front yard that smells like vanilla?

How about a mesquite? I saw a thornless cultivar once at Barton Springs Nursery in Austin.

Omar

Dan, good information on the Huisache giving me several things to consider; such as driving around the east side of the SA Botanical Gardens. Thank you!

What trees are you considering?

Omar, Texas native tree with creamy white panicles????? I don't know what that could be, but your remark made me think of that one we saw at the SABG that smelled so sweet; huge tree too. Will try to fine the post about it.

Yes, I thought about the vanilla scented Arroyo sweetwood tree. But I've already got one in the back and the one in the front. The one in the front yard was viewed so many times it it shows up on the Google link.

I love mesquites, but they are slow growing. I researched the Thornless mesquite a couple of years ago before I planted the Retama trees. It's from Chile and grows fast with water and fertilizer. Everything in my yard gets water and fertilizer, but those conditions come with their own set of problems. Several sites pictured it toppled over from a shallow root system. Beautiful tree though ....

Found the fragrant tree that Omar and I saw at the SABG four years ago. Scroll down to the fourth photo. I'd plant it in a moment if it would grow in my yard, but it probably wouldn't take the thin, alkaline soil and full sun conditions.

Dan, maybe it would grow for you. Mexican Sweetspire

Edit: Dan, on the other hand, maybe not. The one comment on the link says:

"On May 17, 2009, Agaveguy from San Antonio, TX (Zone 9a) wrote:

This is an "indicator" tree of the cloud forests of the Sierra Madre Oriental in northeastern Mexico. In that habitat these trees reach 120 feet and more in height and perhaps 8 feet in diameter. They are also loaded with bromeliads, orchids, ferns and other epiphytes. It's amazing they are so adaptable to much drier and hotter conditions."

I wonder if it is still growing at the San Antonio Botanical Gardens. Dan, I think you mentioned once that you go there occasionally, Check it out.

Omar, is the creamy white panicled one Kidney wood?

No, the flowers of the one I’m talking about are bigger and more yellowish. It’s very common. I’ll look for it...

Omar

re: " What trees are you considering? "

Well, I was thinking about Retama, there's an impressive one down the street that grew quickly. I'd like something that could also act as a wind deflector/dampener year round. I have some clumping (non-spreading) bamboo that propagates or divides easily; it's great for late afternoon shade when the sun gets lower. but doesn't help a lot when the sun's overhead. I'd settle for a seasonal temporary sailcloth or solar fabric, if the posts were high enough that I could walk under, and could withstand the occasional 30+ mph wind gusts.

Ragna, it’s deciduous sumac.

Omar

Omar, here's what I found so far when Googling deciduous sumac. Results of more research will be forthcoming. I'll show you the flame leaf sumac I have when you come.

Dan, I dearly love my two Retama trees. The two/three year old one can be seen as puffs of green directly behind the point of the tower in the first photo above. It's getting ready to bloom -- again.

It is centered in this view ...

Just behind on the left of the young Retama tree is the darker green foliage of a native tree that was sold as a Teneza by Hill Country Gardens. It's multi trunked, fast growing and might work as a wind break. It's mostly evergreen; losing it's ferny leaves only in the coldest winters.

Here is the three/four year old Retama tree ...

After the roots got a toe hold lower branches going ever which way were pruned to shape the tree. Small thorns on the trunk were cut off when both trees were young so that anyone reaching out when they pass the tree (mainly me) would not get stuck.

You are most welcome to come over to check them out any time. Message me through Houzz.

Incidentally, while riding in his golf cart last evening my neighbor James pointed out the two big leaf maples he planted out in our hot, dry, sun blasted field. Who'd a thunk they are growing well.

Ragna, that could be it but I think yours is not as tall as the ones I see by the road. Do you trim yours?

I think is this one but I am not 100% suhttps://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/RHUSLANCEOLATA.HTMre.

Omar

The link doesn't work. Will try to look it up on that site. My flame leaf sumac was only planted this spring.

Paulovnia is considered an invasive tree in park lands now. It makes a zillion seeds. Huisach is hardy to Austin but not out to here. I don't see any out here. The closest one is at the beginning of Southwest Parkway. I do love them . They are a a staple in the french perfume industry. I love driving the bank of them east of san Marcus to Neiderwal

Mara, thank you. I have forgotten what the Huisache flower scent is like.

Omar, the link to TAMU does work. Just have to click the link shown when it comes up. I think it's the tree I have. Mara gave me some root sprouts from her trees. It's doing well along the drive way in the front, but as a young tree in this heat it's older leaves scorch along the edges, turn yellow and fall. New leaves quickly follow. Maybe, as you mentioned when here yesterday, I'm giving it too much water.

More images of Flame leaf sumac. Incidentally, if I remember correctly Mara said the red leaves in fall don't last long.

Been thinking about what you said about planting another tree in the back yard; that by the time it gets large enough to give some decent shade in four or five years the trees I have will have grown large enough to do the job. You sure know how to throw a kink in my plants, er ... plans! LOL But that is a consideration. I wish we'd talked more about that while observing the area.

Omar's link

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/RHUSLANCEOLATA.HTM

(was: I think is this one but I am not 100% suhttps://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/RHUSLANCEOLATA.HTMre.)

Ragna, on top of that, if you plant a tree there you may end up without a real full sun area. By the way, I would place your “Starry, Starry Omar” hibiscus in that area. It’s light needs are similar to bougainvilleas.

Omar

Sorry I'm late to the discussion. I have two Monterrey Oaks, but haven't seen the rapid growth you see reported. I did buy them on the larger size so that is a factor. I give no supplemental water and they have been in the ground around 4 years. They hold their leaves until Feburary drop them and are the first to leaf out. I think some of the larger specimens are evergreen.

Tjayers, thank you for your input. I'm still on the fence, so to speak. Not sure which side I'll come down on. Tell me more; how much have they grown? What kind of soil? About how tall were they when planted?

I am in Rocky alkaline soil. I remember planting both a cedar elm and a chinese pistache thinking they had no chance in what seemed to be solid rock and they are both fine. Actually the pistache had performed the best. I believe the monterey oaks were 45 gallon containers when planted. They seemed to do nothing for 2-3 years then grew 3-4 feet. I'd say they are about 20 feet tall now.

I grew huisache in Austin- it was fast but very thorny. I don’t mind thorns usually, but both trees grew as giant shrub shapes that I was constantly trimming to get into tree shapes. I grow clethra pringlei in Dallas and San Marcos- and love it, but its slow growing. I’ve been enjoying the fragrance of kidney wood and aloysia gratissima (the xeric cousin of almond verbena).

Matt, with you having grown huisache I especially appreciate your input about trying to make it a tree when apparently it wanted to be a big bush.

Tell me more about aloysia gratissima. Where did you buy it? I have Aloysia macrostachya, and love it, but have never noticed a scent.

While visiting Rainbow Gardens on Bandara Rd. to pick up some silver pony foot I discovered a new to me thornless mesquite, Lester Roy Mesquite, a hybrid of the Chilean mesquite and presumably our 'honey' mesquite. The patent application states:

These characteristics in combination distinguish ‘Leslie Roy’ as a new and distinct cultivar:

1. Cold tolerance of at least minus 12 c. [10 Fahrenheit]

2. Upright, outwardly spreading growth habit.

3. Thornlessness.

4. Semi-evergreen appearance in winter.

RG was selling it's specimens from Monrovia in 3/5 gal. pots, about 4/5 ft tall for $80.00; a little steep on the price, but tempting to the eye. The growth habit seemed a little more open, wide and less symmetrical than what I remember the Chilean mesquite to be. But would their roots be weak with water and fertilizer as reported about the Chilean mesquite parent.

Ragna,

When I moved onto this property, there were no trees. I knew that I wanted to plant something along the driveway. It turned out to be the Monterrey Oak. Glad I chose that.

Temple City Parks dept raises many different types of trees. They will tell you that it is the BEST tree and MOST REQUESTED of any that they grow here to plant anywhere around the greater area of Temple. They do go drought tolerant relatively quickly. I also used Mycorrhizael Fungi tablets to try to help get the roots going. That must have been about 4 1/2 yrs ago. My camera is hiding, surely it can't be my housekeeping. Otherwise, I'd take a picture of it for you. Was told that if you will continue to provide water that it will grow faster.

Holds onto its leaves through Winter, but I swear, I can't find any leaves over the past 4 yrs that dropped after Winter. I'm really at a loss to figure out where they go cause you know that leaves don't stay on trees for that long. It would be an excellent tree for you. My guess is that with everything you have growing there, that you'll end up needing to transplant something. Hard to believe that you wouldn't. If you didn't have to transplant a full sun plant, then you've got a tree that doesn't provide the type of canopy that you want for shade. Of course, even our Full Sun plants do appreciate some shade, but this oak will make a denser shade than many of the others mentioned above.

I've realized the same problem here. I've been pouring over perennials to buy when I should have been searching out trees instead. But, my beds weren't finished. Heck, they weren't even begun. I had to finish the Hummingbird Bed before I could ID where to plant some other trees. I've made my grocery list now, but they might not be what you are looking for:

- Wafer Ash growing in nothing but Full Sun and I want another one to plant relatively close so their canopies will meet. You might consider planting two trees whose canopy will meet sooner.

- Mexican Plum drops a lot of fruit so, that will be a bit of a mess.

- Anacacho Orchid probably won't make a very dense shade. Check out the ones that are planted at the San Antonio Arboretum so as to qualify the shade. Getting two to plant near the deck - one on each side. Also 3 to go out into the Hellstrip.

- I had to nix one because it doesn't grow here in our alkaline soil. I can't imagine a nursery near us that grows for alkaline soil. Go figure. My guess, would be that the Red Buckeye not in high demand here since it needs more acid soil.

The requirements that I gave for my yard was that they needed to be pollinator friendly. But with my list, I'll have to wait till the next beds are completed before I start thinking "Trees" again.

With Leslie Roy providing dappled shade, you might prefer that for your plants.

I've spread my pesos as far as I can considering the number of small trees that I'll be planting. Earlier this year, I bought a Pakistani Mulberry that I'm hoping will produce next year.

Another idea would be a Pecan tree. They go drought tolerant quickly as well with that long tap root of theirs. But, I'm guessing you already have one of those.

Good luck with your decision. I realized that I was late to this party since it was a couple of weeks ago since you posted this question. Of course, you know that everyone is eager to hear the vote on which one you decided upon.

Crystal, thank you for the suggestions and detailed information on trees that you have experience with.

Right now I'm leaning towards one of Omar's ideas about using an Arroya sweetwood tree even though I've already been growing two of them for twenty-five years. At least I know and like what it will do.

Leaning is an intended pun because I'm thinking of planting it more to the left of the 'silver cushion bush' and let it lean away from the tower. It's a graceful, spreading, fast growing legume that likes to lean, loves alkaline conditions, very drought tolerant, has small leaves that need no raking, produces scented white flowers and lime green seed pods.

Ragna- sorry for the late reply. I bought aloysia gratissima at one of the LBJ plant sales in Austin, but I’ve seen it for sale at native plant nurseries in the past. It’s incredibly drought tolerant and eVerblooming.

I saw a large, inground ‘leslie roy’ mesquite at Civano nursery in Tucson. They’ve introduced many interesting plants. They have a cold hardy lady slipper (pedilanthus):

https://www.civanonursery.com/plant-catalog/chilly-willy-ladys-slipper-pedilanthus-macrocarpus-chilly-willy/

I like my Wooly Beebrush that is like Ragna's. Civano also carries the thornless Desert Museum Palo Verde.

That "Chilly Willy" got my attention couple of years back , but I still have not acquired it . What is wrong with me?

Matt, did you have any particular thoughts about the Lester Roy Mesquite when you saw it at Civano Nursery? It's hard to say for sure, but from the photos it seems that the shade it casts is hardly any shade at all.

I liked the form of it - the one I saw seemed a little more upright than average thornless mesquites. It doesn’t cast much shade- about the same as a Pali verde (retama) tree.

Did the Paulonia survive the Freezageddon of last winter here in Texas? Is there another name for the Tenezia? What is the fastest windbreak type every green or nearly evergreen, here in deep soil Central Texas??? Desperate need and will keep after invasiveness....