Software
Houzz Logo Print
ouqt84

Disturbed aircell asbestos pipe wrap?

7 years ago

Hi dear plumbers.

I know all answers on this post would be speculative, but I'm trying to figure out if my neighbor's illegal plumbing might be the source of the asbestos dust found in my coop..I had it tested and it came back positive on a TEM basis (after intense clesnings)...

Backgound: many months ago, my coop neighbor did a large reno without permits.
During construction, dust entered my apartment daily, and, when asked, Coop Management claimed:

  1. The contractor did not need a permit for the work they were doing since they were not moving PLUMBING or electrical.

  2. There is no asbestos in the units.

Management likely lied because of 2 reasons:

  1. They actually DID need a permit. I reported the construction after it ended (not during it, which would have likely shut job down) and a violation was issued for unpermitted plumbing.

  2. There IS asbestos in the units. According to past pre-reno assessments available as public knowledge on my city's website, pipes within walls of the units (not just boiler room) have aircell asbestos insulation which i read is highly friable. In those pre-Reno cases, the inspector just cited the presence of aircell insulation. It didn't have to be removed before the reno because either the amount was under 10 linear feet or the work would not require the aircell to be disturbed.

I spoke to an asbestos inspector who looked at the records with me and agreed that the unpermitted plumbing may have illegally disturbed this insulation, but it is hard to really know since the work is over.

So, that's why I'm hoping for some insight... All I know is that there were no licensed plumbers or asbestos checks involved. Before I complained to the city and was still on good terms with Management, they told me that they made the contractor open the wall to fix some of the plumbing that they did.

I will never know if the aircell insulation present in the apartment walls is wrapping the plumbing pipes or the heating pipes or both. All I know is they installed (moved???) plumbing and probably did other illegal work.

The only information about the plumbing work they did is listed on the violation which reads:

"PLUMBING WORK W/O PERMIT. INSTALLED PLUMBING FIXTURES (3PC BATH) AND KITCHEN SINK ALONG WITH WATER AND WASTE LINES. JOB100% COMPLETED. NO PERMIT ON FILE.

Based on permit violation language, is it possible that they ripped out aircell insulation? At first, I speculated that the asbestos maybe came from the outside or from the plaster they disturbed. But after reading that there is aircell insulation in the units, I am doubly concerned.

I had breast cancer a few years ago so that adds to the concern....

Thank you!!

Comments (7)

  • 7 years ago

    In this situation, does not matter in my opinion whether plumbing work was not with or without a permit. The really serious thing is asbestos exists in the coop apartments, it was disturbed and the proper containment method was not used.

    The plumbing permit makes no mention of asbestos. It is going to be difficult to prove if any asbestos was disturbed during the work.

    My advice is to tell your coop management you want your coop apartment tested for asbestos. If there are any traces then ask that it be professionally cleaned. Write a letter to the coop board asking that no repairs be without the proper permits and asbestos remediation, and without a written notice given to neighboring tenants.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    ouqt84- Since you first posted your question about asbestos issues over a month ago and gotten many replies (https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5745312/question-about-asbestos-remediation), I can see that no amount of discussion or reassurance will prevent you from worrying about and perseverating on this situation. Honestly, there is only one solution, and that is to move. I'm not being snarky; I'm just being practical based on all that you have previously written.

  • 7 years ago

    mike, thanks, yeah, at this point it's likely impossible to link the presence of asbestos to them even though they created tons of dust in my apt..4 months later, still silica in air, tons of wood dust in air, etc...asbestos not in air, thank God, but in residual dust .. management/board president does not care and refused to contribute toward cleaning when my dad called and asked. maybe I'll try again and write letter as you suggested...of course, I would only allow my choice of tester- not theirs. they notify residents of construction- but that's it..not to bog you down with TMI..but...not only did the contractor leave me with a pollution problem, he also broke my medicine cabinet and the surrounding wall. Management REFUSES to give me (an owner/ shareholder) or my insurance agent his COI so I can submit a claim. they are furious that I made the complaint to the city which is my legal right. something is not right here. I've thought about calling city to make sur complaint but they might not test since work has long been over...I need to either move or have another professional cleaning. my thought was to ask experienced plumbers if they thought there was a chance aircell insulation was ripped up based on my limited knowledge of the SOW...like you said, I'll probably never know...

  • 7 years ago

    Kudzu, I respectfully hear your point and I agree that I should move, but at this point, it is not feasible. I'm trying to just assess my risk level and get information from experienced plumbers (or those who have knowledge of similar circumstances) about aircell insulation they encounter in their work. I got a lot of flak from people on the previous board for worrying too much about my positive asbestos test. Yes, duration of exposure equals risk; but, according to all Health agencies, there is no safe level of asbestos exposure. Yes, asbestos is everywhere, but why should I be exposed to extra amounts because of illegal sleazebag construction? And, if they did rip up insulation, that is scary. Yes, I'm aware I have to let go of the bitterness because not everybody has a high standard of ethics and wants to just get by. However, for my Management to allow this is unacceptable, considering that my city has likely the most stringent asbestos laws in the country. Hygienists I've spoken to admitted that it's hard to assess my overall exposure since the work ended 4 months ago. The only way to get a true picture is to have my entire apartment wiped-down and tested which is big $$$$$. Still, I've had multiple cleaning since the construction so I'll never know the true picture. All I know is that I can't pick up a paper in my apartment without dust coming off of it and I can't open my pocketbook without a plume of dust exiting. I can't even gently tug on my clothes without seeing dust. I'm an intuitive person and I know when something is off....i pray that this excess dust I'm surrounded by is not asbestos containing. You made some solid points in your earlier posts; however, your conjecture was wrong that the guy who tested my air during the construction wasn't a quack. Not only was he unlicensed, but industrial hygienists I spoke to, and the EPA, said that his "testing" was completely ridiculous or nearly impossible to do. I gave him 24 hours to refund my money lest I report him to the DOL for operating illegally. I got my refund within minutes.

    But, alas, I hear your point. Move out, or move on.

  • 7 years ago

    Building management/ownership and/or the HOA board won't do anything until threatened by legal action. So your choice is move, put up with it, or get a lawyer involved. I can almost guarantee a letter from your lawyer will move them to do something less expensive than fighting a lawsuit!

  • 7 years ago

    thx, sktn