Francis, I hope you can get both after I look at photos on HMF.

'Etienne' is actually a much smaller plant than 'Umbra', tending to stay under 4.5 feet. 'Umbra', very much the offspring of 'William Lobb', is a much taller plant, behaving more like a small climber.

Both can tolerate some shade, both are extremely winter hardy, and both can tolerate lots of neglect, so it really comes down to which style of rose you prefer. 'Umbra' is definitely a cool lavender blend, whereas 'Etienne' is much more crimson (beetroot purple).

Sounds like you should get both! :-) LOL!

Do you find them in stock somewhere, Frances?

Paul, thanks so much, this is really helpful! Since they both take shade and I have more partially shady spots available than sunny spots, maybe I could do both (thanks for the enabling, Vaporvac and Sheila!!) They actually sound pretty different. One more question if I may - what is their bloom season like? Because I notice that of my gallicas, my beloved La belle sultane seems to have a rather short bloom period, so just wondering about these two beauties. (Charles de Mills seems to have a nice long one; Tuscany superb, Orpheline de Juillet, and Hippolyte have not yet bloomed for me being new this past spring; that's all I have gallica-wise so far). Sheila, I saw them listed in stock at Rogue Valley Roses (so glad they seem to be updating their site!) I do love gallicas for all of those gorgeous purple-y colors!

Thanks so much, Paul! Gosh they are beautiful. I think I'll have to get both - the shade tolerance makes that reasonable for me, or so I tell myself! And they really are quite different. I think I have a spot that is a bit sunnier for Umbra! The idea that it could be almost a small climber is really exciting. Thanks again!

Hi, Frances. I grow both roses in zone 6, Ohio River Valley. They have both done beautifully here, with Umbra being slightly more vigorous. They are both in partial shade. Umbra does a better job of maintaining fresh, green foliage throughout the season, with Etienne losing some leaves to fungal issues during the summer months. Also, Umbra has that wonderful ability of producing easily manipulated canes that remain upright forming a nicely shaped shrub.

I am moving next spring to zone 4, Minneapolis area, and plan to take cuttings of both with me and if that doesn’t work I will attempt to transplant the large plants. If only one survives, I hope it is Umbra.

One last comment, in my garden Umbra is one of the first roses to bloom, along with Therese Bugnet.

Deborah, where have you been? I was so excited to read you live in the Ohio River Valley and then see you're moving! Not to go OT, but I'd be so interested to hear what does well for you and where you are more or less. I don't really know anyone else on the forum in our area. Do you have a profile on HMF with your roses? Feel free to send a pm so as not to side-track this conversation completely. : ))

Having trouble with photos.

Umbra

Etienne

Umbra. Canes pulled horizontally. If you enlarge you can see all the lateral buds.

Vaporvac, I am on HMF with a list of what I grow. I will pm you with my thoughts regarding what has done well for me. I have been in MN the past few weeks. My new yard contains one rose, Dart’s Dash (Rugosa), but it does have a mature perennial garden with many prairie type shade plants.

What beautiful color. If they were not once blooming I would grow them. I might plant one in partial shade! Deb, how do you find the fragrance?

Katyajini, can’t help you with scent, I am smell impaired due to allergies.

Deborah, thanks for posting those amazing, beautiful pictures! And thanks, everybody, for the enablement. I ordered both of them from Rogue for next spring!