I do know there is no closet in the bedroom didn’t even think to build one :(. Now that’s ur mentioning it tho. Maybe :)

What all goes into the Passover kitchen? Is it just prep space, another full set of appliances, or something else?

At the end of the day I think you're going to have to give something up. You can't fit a separate full mudroom AND a full bath AND the Passover kitchen space as currently drawn. Keep in mind that the Passover kitchen is, I'm assuming, used only once a year, right? Where as the mudroom is likely used daily, and it sounds like the full bath would be used pretty regularly too.

What about something like this? It preserves a Passover kitchen but makes it shallower and longer. You could think about pocket doors to save space, too, and perhaps even scoot the door to the family room up a smidge to get more depth to work with. It puts the mudroom along the hallway (where it's honestly more likely to get used), set back just a bit. This might be a more significant change, as I'm guessing it involves a load bearing wall but it would let you keep quite a bit of what you want.

thats a creative twist on that. tho need to thihnk abou that:)

i have a diff thought, how about i close up the mudroom from the hallway. and open it from the bedroom only and put in that 6x 4'8 area a shower sink and toilet. do u think that would work? that would solve the issue of privacy issue of closet preserved(i can use hall closet for mini mud room) would keep my pass over kitchen and playroom as such. thoughs? and where would i put the door to get optimal space and how would i plot the 3 items in that area? no i cant do a curblles shower as my floor will be there already installed.

Mrs Pete your idea to move entrance from garage will prove challenging considering the height difference (see the stairs). Otherwise good suggestion on double doors to new bath.

I’m unsure about the double doors. What’s if the elderly on in the bathroom I have only one bathroom on the floor I don’t know how practical that will be.. I’m a bit concerned. I love concept but don’t know about execution off it

A Passover kitchen is an alternate prep zone kitchen so u can cook and prep before the holiday and use if on holiday time as well it’s totally segregated from typical all year round kitchen.

Interesting. I'm kinda amazed I've never heard of it.

On a practical note, though, you have a large kitchen already ... why couldn't a couple cabinets on that "back row" of cabinets -- the cabinets that stand apart from the main work area in the "L" -- why couldn't those serve the same function?

put in that 6x 4'8 area a shower sink and toilet. do u think that would work?

No. If you can't fit a full bath into 7'x4'8", you absolutely can't fit a full bath into a 6'x4'8" space.

You COULD use the existing half bath + the mudroom to make a full bath for your parents ... and make the passover kitchen into a half-bath. You do need a bathroom for general family use on the first floor.

BR, I know you're trying hard here, but I'm thinking you're not strong on spacial reasoning.

Mrs Pete your idea to move entrance from garage will prove challenging considering the height difference (see the stairs).

I don't really understand that part of the plan.

I’m unsure about the double doors. What’s if the elderly on in the bathroom I have only one bathroom on the floor I don’t know how practical that will be.. I’m a bit concerned. I love concept but don’t know about execution off it

Essentially you have two options:

- Go with two doors so the bathroom can be accessed from both the hallway and the bedroom and know that people will have to knock,

OR

- Your parents will have to walk around the corner to use the bathroom, and that'll include coming /going to the shower. If they're sick or develop mobility problems, "getting there in time" could become a real issue.

Do you think they'd rather take the chance of the occasional "walk in" if they don't lock the door, or would they rather venture through the house in their robes every time they shower? 'Cause one of those two things will happen with this design; you don't have the space for any other options.

Love the real life sketching going on here and the breakdowns :) I’m not tossing any ideas out I’m taking. It all in and need to weigh t he pros and cons really carefully :)
Want to digress for. A second
Can I put a 36 corner shower into the “mud room” and fit sink and toilet ? Like my last post photo

In a kosher kitchen we have separate cabinetry and appliances. Each on it’s one section and designated spot. So to use “back row or cabinets from main kitchen” defeats purpose. The wall on the left of the Passover kitchen is being a side by side full fridge and freezer

Contemplate something like this perhaps... This is very tight, but meets 36”+ width for each fixture. it eats some space in the study but part of it is the corner which would have been harder to utilize I think.

You don’t need an entire half kitchen devoted to Passover for goodness sakes. It’s easy enough to kasher existing kitchen surfaces.

https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/338/the-star-k-pesach-kitchen-2/

Absolutely u can. Each person to their own preference I just prefer to have a separate zone so it’s all set up when I’m ready. But that’s not the issue at hand. The fact is I. Don’t want to give up that space so it’s not relevant to the plan :)

@doc5md. I like that concept. U think I can execute that by making door from the study instead of from the hallway ?

Big homes have the luxury of spaces and rooms that get used seldomly. Small houses do not have that luxury. Every square foot milestone pay for itself in usefulness, full time. Building costs way to much to not have every space work as hard as possible.

I just want to say this all I really really appreciate all the feedback over here
We have def made headway and have some very nice options to work with!!! Thank y thanks u!!

Need to perfect this but basically I think it’s Mrs Pete plan or doc5md but door from other side of the room. If anyone else would like to propose any other idea u are totally welcome :):)

You can absolutely do the door from the study instead of the hallway. And. I have a 36“ door there. You could do smaller if not worried about accessibility

Super!!! I’m gona decide between these and I’m thrilled. This platform has outstanding people out here thank u!!!

Can I put a 36 corner shower into the “mud room” and fit sink and toilet ? Like my last post photo

You can do this ONLY if you steal space from the study-turned-bedroom. Without knowing the dimensions of the space involved, I can't say whether this is a good or bad idea.

In a kosher kitchen we have separate cabinetry and appliances. Each on it’s one section and designated spot. So to use “back row or cabinets from main kitchen” defeats purpose. The wall on the left of the Passover kitchen is being a side by side full fridge and freezer

So is a Kosher kitchen the same thing as a Passover kitchen?

Regardless, how are you going to put a refrigerator and freezer in this 8'x5'8" Passover kitchen space? You're talking about putting these items into a large closet. You won't be able to fully open the doors of the refrigerator/freezer. This space won't house a second small kitchen.

You could use the blue cabinets as your "everyday" kitchen and the red as your "passover" kitchen more easily than you could have a separate too-small-for-what-you-describe kitchen:

Big homes have the luxury of spaces and rooms that get used seldomly. Small houses do not have that luxury.

Agree. You're trying to make too much fit into this space. Realistically, you have to give up something ... or add more space to the plan.

im sorry i was unclear the blue and red zone is being my kithen cabinet. the area AFTER TEH PASS KITCHEN TO THE LEFT is having my fridge freezer unit. there is place its leaning on the wall o fpass kitchen. there is space.

i dont mind stealing off some space from bedroom if need be. for the all in one mud turned bath room i just need to figure out where to place the door if it opens on the right or the left walking into the mudroom

Here are two more possibilities. I like the first one best. No wasted space. Larger shower, vanity and toilet space. More private entrance for office/bedroom.

You can make the bathroom space larger with a smaller closet, but since this closet is the only one you have, I' keep it big.

If you can not totally move the pipes, you could put a wall two feet deep between the toilet and vanity to hold the pipes.

I like these options thank u so so much!! I will need to quote my choices and take it to the next level thank you so much!!

We have a winner! The design on the right is -- by far -- the best thing we've seen on this thread. It keeps the closet and fixes the two-door problem. The closet isn't as convenient to the front door, but coat closets matter more to the back door anyway.

Two small-small tweaks I'd add:

- Reverse the swing of the door in the small hallway. At 36", the hallway is narrow, so let the door "park" in the bedroom /not in the small hall.

- Add a pocket door at the "top" of the small hallway. This'll allow the grandparents to "close off" the small hallway and use the bathroom in complete privacy during the night. When the grandparents aren't in residence, the door will stay open all the time.

I'm not a pro, but the first drawing seems like a better use of space, no wasted hallway, so the space between the bath fixtures is larger. Also, you could make room in that closet for when they visit. Maybe the coats can get moved to mudroom hooks and cubbies?

Yes, that is the clear design winner. The issue mountain here is that this is a builder controlled build and not custom. One already fairly far along. Moving the already existing plumbing is a big change order even without a builders add on fees. Perhaps the simpler “just” add a shower to the mud area may end up being the most doable solution. It would be fine for the occasional visit. If a longer term permanent solution is needed, this isn’t the house to have that happen. It has too many built in access barriers. It will need to be an entirely different house for that.

Glad you like the layouts.

On second thought, the first layout with the entry on the left would not work. The hallway entry into the bedrm/bathroom would be too narrow unless you made the closet about 12 inches deep and used it as a linen closet. All walkways and hallways should be 36 inches deep or more.

Unfortunately, your bathroom is only 4 feet 8 inches which means the door opening into the bathroom takes a minimum amount of space. 30 inch standard door with 6 inches for trim that measures 2 1/4 inches. So you need 36 inches out of the 56 inch depth for a door which means you need a 19 inch deep vanity with a 1 inch counter top overhang. That will even be cutting it very close.

Both layouts will have the vanity and door problem, but you and the builder may be able to work something out.

I redrew the first layout with a 40 inch hallway and added closets in your large foyer. Since the foyer is two stories high, you would have a ledge on top of the closets, unless you were able to incorporate the space into the bedroom above.

In the second layout I move the hallway to the right, added a pocket door and put the fixtures on the hallway wall to avoid noise in the bedroom.

another alternative on the second layout would be to make the right side hallway 42 inches wide, eliminate the closet in the hall and add pax wardrobes in bedroom. Then you could add a bigger shower and vanity.

I think the original 2nd layout might work best if your total space is 13 feet 8 inches. You have room for a 34 inch X 48 to 56 inch shower, a 31 1/2 toilet space, a 30 inch vanity, 36 inch hallway and 28 inch closet, 4 1/2 in wall between hall and bath.

perhaps bi-fold doors between the remodeled bath and the study/parents bedroom?

Hi I didn’t have my phone on I’m going to review the lasSt few ideas give me a some time thanks all!!!!!!

Nailed it @live_wire_oak

I’m reviewing all this this looks very promising :) I really really appreciate everyone sketches and help!

Pls clarify @karenseb ur last comment about the revised layouts im a little unclear. Sounds like something feasible but need some clarity what u wrote. Do u mind re explaining ?

Based on last sketch it seems that I lost entry door to the bedroom and they can only get int the room from the hallway. Which is a little out of the way. And it seems like all the plumbing was moved to opposite wall. Not sure why. What’s the reasoning behind that ? I do like the concept of closet next to the coat closet that a great idea!

To explain this is for when the parents come to visit this is not for long solution living arrangements. However, we want them to be the most comfortable and have privacy when they need and have avail amenities right nearby :). I’ll wait to get clarification from the last sketch and let’s see how to proceed. I really really appreciate it all. Obv I do think budget wise “just “ adding shower will be cheaper. But I need to consider in the long run what’s best too I haven’t mixed yet that idea of shower pedestal and toilet in mudroom either as a compact solution. I’m open to all ideas

We are having the study being a bedroom for elderly parents when they visit
It would be a shower stall so not need a full bath

If that is the case you'll also need a door from the study into the bathroom for your parents. I doubt you want them walking through the foyer and hallway to get to the bathroom.

Additionally if you're planning this for elderly parents, they will need more space in a bathroom. Not less.

Lol thanks for all that! A Passover kitchen is an alternate prep zone kitchen so u can cook and prep before the holiday and use if on holiday time as well it’s totally segregated from typical all year round kitchen.
So to give that up I am really not interested in doing so :)

I realize it's more difficult to clean the regular kitchen for Passover, but to give up that much space for a total of 8 days a year?

I hear what you’re saying that you don’t expect your parents to move in. Fair enough. Still, since this is new construction, it doesn’t hurt to build it for “aging in place.” (For them, just in case, or even for you someday, or future owners). A walk in shower, even with a curb, is easier to navigate than a tub. You may consider adding blocking, even if you don’t want to install grab bars now. (You can plan it, have your GC add the blocking, then take photos that you or future owners can refer to). As someone else mentioned, there are portable benches you can use. (Or you could add blocking for a pull down bench). You sound younger than me, but now that I’m middle aged, my friends and I are watching what our parents are going through and planning for our own homes when we remodel. One couple recently renovated their family room to create a downstairs bedroom (the middle aged husband is having foot/leg problems, so a first floor bedroom will be nice if he chooses to have surgery). BTW are you trying to add a closet for the bedroom? I‘ve lost track.

BTW, when I was going to open houses, having a first floor bedroom is definitely a selling point, so this conversion will be good for resale.

Hi yes I will have a closet in the bedroom bordering the wall of outside porch but before the window starts
And yes we will need a door to bathroom from the bedroom

The bottom line is boiling Down to
Are we making a separate compact full bathroom for them
Or masking one roomy bathroom for entire floor ( which will complicate it for the rest of the family when we have the elderly come ) that’s means running up each time to the bathroom as the main floor will become theirs ..

Sketches concepts we have. I’m waiting for clarity on last sketch.

@cpartist yes I that’s the choice we made :)

following

That's a lot of money to spend for 8 days a year. And yes I am quite aware what goes into cleaning for the holiday.

If someone wants the extra $500 a month for their mortgage for wasted space, and the extra $30 a month in utilities, all for 8 days? It can’t be explained by logic. Luxuries aren’t explainable to those whose existence is made better by the luxury.

But, 1K a day is a pretty good payment to pay yourself for doing the extra bit of kashering work required.

The last layout I drew up with the bath fixtures on the hall wall was to keep noise down for guests in the bedrm, but it is not a big deal. I have a bedrm that backs to the bedrm and it seems okay. I eliminated the front hallway bedrm entry door so that you could place a bed on that wall.

i also thought that if you were using a standard shower tray 34 x 48, you could bring the shower forward and a avoid the diagonal corner.

That makes sense what ur saying thank u!

I respect everyone decision whether it’s important or not to have a separate kitchen for 8 days :) we decided to keep it and I don’t want to get this feed off topic by dwelling on that tho :) just need to finalize this bathroom sitch. I’m waiting to hear back from my contractor about the options. I have another question. I fully tiled all my other bathrooms in the house that have a shower:tub. This powder room currently has nothing. Do I need to tile fully if I just keep it as such ? If I turn it into a full shower pan. Will I need to tile as it won’t be used to frequently ? Pls advise and why

Meaning do I tile half up and paint or wall per. Versus fully tiles wall and ceiling
I’m talking. Practical long term not modern in style.

Obv I do think budget wise “just “ adding shower will be cheaper. But I need to
consider in the long run what’s best too

I don't think the shower-only vs. shower-plus small hallway is going to make a hill of beans difference in cost. It's the same square footage. Perhaps an extra door.

Additionally if you're planning this for elderly parents, they will need more space in a bathroom. Not less.

Ideally, yes, but only so much square footage exists. And, as the OP has said, this is for visiting, not living.

I realize it's more difficult to clean the regular kitchen for Passover, but to give up that much space for a total of 8 days a year?

I kinda thought that too, but -- as, a Southern Baptist, I didn't think I had any right to say so. This thread made me interested in the concept of a Passover kitchen, and I did some reading, but that isn't nearly the same as having done the cleaning myself. Wow, so many details.

If someone wants the extra $500 a month for their mortgage for wasted space, and the extra $30 a month in utilities, all for 8 days? It can’t be explained by logic. Luxuries aren’t explainable to those whose existence is made better by the luxury.

Fair enough. If you saw the master bath we've planned, you'd say it's all wrong. But it isn't wrong for us.

Do I need to tile fully if I just keep it as such ? If I turn it into a full shower pan.

An all-tile shower or a shower-pan shower are equally functional. Doesn't matter whether it's used often or just a couple times a year. An analogy: you could have a glass door or you could have a shower curtain; they give a different look, but they fulfill the same function.

Thanks I wasn’t clear. I mean to tile half up in a bathroom wirh moisture from a shower or fully tiled. Is it necessary ?

Thank u all!! For all ur valuable and important input form tiny details to the massive sketches. Each one of ur opinions really matter and count for Us to help us make the best choice for our home thank you thank you!

If you are asking if you only need to halfway tile up a shower, I'm guessing the answer is no. You need to tile at least to the top of the shower head.

In ref to the other walls not by the corner or long tub wall